Canon 4K Concept Camera

Canon Rumors Guy

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<p><strong>From Philip Bloom

<span style="font-weight: normal;">Videographer Philip Bloom is at the Canon EXPO and snapping away.</span></strong></p>
<p>His blog shows off the 4K concept video camera from Canon.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong>Some Info (Image from Philip Bloom)

<a href="http://philipbloom.net/2010/09/01/canon-4k-concept-camera-and-first-images-from-canon-expo-on-ny/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-4946" title="p_2592_1936_639EEBC3-182A-4241-80F2-4BF25AD065D2" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/p_2592_1936_639EEBC3-182A-4241-80F2-4BF25AD065D2.jpeg" alt="" width="479" height="640" /></a> </strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://philipbloom.net/2010/09/01/canon-4k-concept-camera-and-first-images-from-canon-expo-on-ny/">Check out Philip’s full reports as they unfold.</a></strong></p>
<p><em>thanks jay</em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://philipbloom.net/2010/09/01/canon-4k-concept-camera-and-first-images-from-canon-expo-on-ny/"></a><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r </strong></p>
 

kubelik

EOS R
Aug 11, 2010
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what lens is that mounted on the 4K concept? I think I'm seeing 7-140mm, but that sounds ridiculous ...
 
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jaybirch

Guest
Yea... 22-440mm (35mm equiv.)

Now that would be seriously stunning for sports work!

This is jaw dropping news.
 

kubelik

EOS R
Aug 11, 2010
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the only issue with a 4K video camera ... is you can't really get the full use of that in playback, at least not on any consumer screen.

and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon, since everything is just recently getting full swing into 1080p HD; doubt we'll be watching Netflix movies in 4K for a long time
 
S

Sebastian

Guest
elektrownik said:
Lens Epic WIN ! 24-480 mm f1.8-3.8 ;D
Not at all. Have a look at the fancy, already existent Canon DIGISUPER 100AF.
(Which, I have to admit, is built for a slightly smaller sensor - ~1/2" instead of 2/3")


Regards,

Sebastian
 

c.d.embrey

EOS RP
Jul 21, 2010
657
8
kubelik said:
the only issue with a 4K video camera ... is you can't really get the full use of that in playback, at least not on any consumer screen.

and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon, since everything is just recently getting full swing into 1080p HD; doubt we'll be watching Netflix movies in 4K for a long time
Motion picture film cameras have been shooting 4K plus film for years. That's why 4K is the Holy Grail for digital. Think of this prototype as a digital cinema camera, not as a television camera.
 

kubelik

EOS R
Aug 11, 2010
824
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c.d.embrey said:
kubelik said:
the only issue with a 4K video camera ... is you can't really get the full use of that in playback, at least not on any consumer screen.

and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon, since everything is just recently getting full swing into 1080p HD; doubt we'll be watching Netflix movies in 4K for a long time
Motion picture film cameras have been shooting 4K plus film for years. That's why 4K is the Holy Grail for digital. Think of this prototype as a digital cinema camera, not as a television camera.
c.d., good point about this technology being aimed more for professional filmmaking ... but the concept design certainly makes it look like its eventually intended for the consumer market, although it will be many years before that tech is cheap enough to get into the consumer price range. maybe by then we'll have 4K TVs to go along with it
 
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PaulRivers

Guest
This is all my opinion - I am no expert. I'm feeling to lazy to rewrite it with different phrasing, so I'm just adding a disclaimer.

I doubt we're going to see 4k tv's (there's already a bunch of claims that you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p unless you have a really, really big tv, and aren't sitting to far back from it.

But the big advantage is the ability to crop after you shoot the video. Say you film the scene with no zooming. Then later you want that "slow zoom" effect. Are you going to hire a bunch of actors to come back a refilm it? With higher resolution - you just crop in slowly via post-processing. And you don't lose any effective resolution because bluray and hdtv isn't going to see more than 1080p anyways.

Or sometimes something that seemed like a neat effect at the time doesn't work later - you thought slowly zooming in would be really great, unfortunately it turns out that the scene before it and the scene after it ended up doing the same thing, and the effect is now waaaaaay to much and distracting. With more pixels you can post-process your scene to not have any zoom, without losing resolution (because again you started with more resolution than you needed).

Or imagine that you shot it with everyone in the frame, but it's more intense with just two of the people...you get the idea.
 
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jaybirch

Guest
If you read the full article... the 4k prototype camera was hooked up to a prototype 4K TV.

With these very large screens, yyou can defeintly see the difference... although I agree it will not be with us for some time (nor will the camera).

4K in the home will be dictated by sports networks. That would require a direct to broadcast 4K camera.
 
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RichT

Guest
kubelik said:
the only issue with a 4K video camera ... is you can't really get the full use of that in playback, at least not on any consumer screen.

and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon, since everything is just recently getting full swing into 1080p HD; doubt we'll be watching Netflix movies in 4K for a long time
4K (or at least 3K) sounds about right if you want to squeeze as much quality as you can onto an HDTV. As far as I know it's using a Bayer sensor, not a 3CCD or 3MOS. So oversampling then downscaling should give you a great 1080p IQ, certainly better than a Bayer camera which has a native 1920x1080 resolution
 
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earthrise

Guest
In the meantime they could put that sensor into a compact camera body :) Maybe combine with some other tech so it that the live view feed is buffered and hitting shutter button grabs a few seconds worth of stills, i.e. you can take the picture of the scene before you press the shutter :) Add in the two prism mirror box and voila!
 
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Edwin Herdman

Guest
Sebastian said:
Have a look at the fancy, already existent Canon DIGISUPER 100AF.
[rant] Oh great, Canon is spelling it "tripple." I guess soon enough Canon will start adoping the consumer-friendly spelling "focussed" too as a trademark term. [/rant]

Okay, got that bee out of the bonnet...

I get the "4K plus" film argument. I think 4K dots of usable horizontal resolution from most film is a bit of a stretch...though the grain gives it a nice character we're not seeing with digital anymore.

I have a bad habit of commenting, every time Philip Bloom points out that PL mount is a necessity for these cameras (or at least for professional acceptance of them), that Canon probably doesn't plan to use a mount standard they don't control for such a camera. The interesting lens on this concept camera bolsters that argument...only a day after I dropped a thread in the Lenses section with no replies - well, good timing on Canon's part. In all seriousness I would like to see autofocus tilt control in lenses...but that's for another day.
 
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MadButcher

Guest
On the 4th picture, 2nd man on the right, as I can see standing between Chairman & CEO Fujio Mitarai and President & COO Tsuneji Uchida, is our Chairman Board Executive Directors of the dutch Canon-Océ: Rokus van Iperen.
Canon is working realy hard now it seems, will be exciting times for us to come.
 
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funkstar

Guest
MadButcher said:
Is 4K the same as QuadHD?
Yup, same thing, 4K is just the original way of refering to that resolution before "everything is better is you stick HD in the name" came along :)

Going by the look of this concept, I bet the designers intend this to become a consumer (or at least enthusiast/pro-sumer) camera a lot quicker than most would expect. If it was a purely pro unit, it would look a lot more like that XF105 they announced. To me the styling is closer to their SLR line than their pro camera line.

To me, this makes sense. I can see 4K cameras becoming available to enthusiasts far sooner than output devices capable of showing native 4K footage. Just like full HD camcorders have been available for years (See the Sanyo HD1000/2000 line) yet there is not a single PC at work that will play it. My PCs at home can handle it, but very few of any of my friends systems could handle playback of the 1080p/60fps footage I can record quite easily.

I also agree with PaulRivers, I would love to record in 4K even if I had no way to show it in the native resolution, the edited down footage is always going to end up as SD or HD. But it's always good to have the rull res archived for the future.
 
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MadButcher

Guest
Sure true!
Even more important: colorspace and dynamic range.

I now have my 22" CRT in 1920x1440 mode.
Maybe I buy a 27" Apple LED Cinema with 2560x1440.
Not for the resolution, but for the colours!

I think it would be nice to have a tablet with a hi-res IPS-panel that can communicate with EOS DSLR's.
Not only for viewing, but also also use it for remote shooting.
Also with wifi-n, something that should maybe become a standard in dslr's.
I think that cables are outdated in the future.
 
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Freeze_XJ

Guest
I'd be happy if 4K monitor panels actually appeared, but for now, the biggest 'normal' display is 30" 2560x1440, which is still a bit more than what i'm staring at. 4k film is nice too, but since the output will come to us in 1080p at best, i doubt we'll be seeing much bigger TV screens. 4K @ home might be nice, but only for those who are really serious about video, as like funkstar said, you'll need a big computer to get through all that data.
What i like most though, is that they managed to make this thing actually shoot decent pictures, which means that if you can upscale this to current APS-whatever sensors , the ISO might improve as well. Yes, it's a long shot, and unless Nikon or RED really threatens to roll Canon, we won't see it until the 5D5, but still, the option is there. (RED does make its 4k sensors in APS-C to full-frame ;) )
 
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Edwin Herdman

Guest
I think the market's going to move faster than it coming out on the 5D5 (realistically - that's like 15-25 years from now), if the 5D category survives long enough to get a fifth revision. As long as people use EOS series cameras for movies, there will be incentive for Canon to push up the spec on video through those cameras, though that butts head with their pro video line - a bit. Right now Canon probably is focused on making use of DSLR sensors and larger for video cameras that are intended to be such...like the announced camcorder (somewhat), especially like this 4K which won't come out anywhere near a DSLR price. Which is not to say 4K won't ever come to DSLRs, if the category even survives long enough (maybe they'll just be DSLs by then...). That being said, I would like the priority for HDSLRs ought to be on the rolling shutter, framerate expansion, and undersampling (well, along with the other obvious ones like noise, DR, and color reproduction).
 
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Freeze_XJ

Guest
I'm more afraid of things coming the other way ;)
In September 2008, Jim Jannard made several announcements on the RedUser forum:
* The first, posted on September 8, announced a "DSLR-killer" that was tentatively referred to as "DSMC, a Digital Still and Motion Camera".
Considering that they are planning a nice 6K camera (18 megapixels, Full Frame), and thinking that it's quite easy to make the thing spew stills as well, the threat might come from them... The only problem now is size. (RED thingies are still bulky, far worse than even an 1D). Sony is likely to continue its cameras as well, and they have video experience on all terrains (they make quite nice professional cameras too :) )
If Canon wants to, the 5D3 can have 4K video, the 1D4 too (throw in 2x digicV, and the framerate problem is solved. The data problem will be another, since writing 20-30 MB/second is tough). From then on, i expect hybrid cameras, that can record movies as well as images. We'll see, but i really hope we're living in interesting times.