Canon 4K Concept Camera

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ArtTwisted

Guest
Freeze_XJ said:
I'm more afraid of things coming the other way ;)
In September 2008, Jim Jannard made several announcements on the RedUser forum:
* The first, posted on September 8, announced a "DSLR-killer" that was tentatively referred to as "DSMC, a Digital Still and Motion Camera".
Considering that they are planning a nice 6K camera (18 megapixels, Full Frame), and thinking that it's quite easy to make the thing spew stills as well, the threat might come from them... The only problem now is size. (RED thingies are still bulky, far worse than even an 1D). Sony is likely to continue its cameras as well, and they have video experience on all terrains (they make quite nice professional cameras too :) )
If Canon wants to, the 5D3 can have 4K video, the 1D4 too (throw in 2x digicV, and the framerate problem is solved. The data problem will be another, since writing 20-30 MB/second is tough). From then on, i expect hybrid cameras, that can record movies as well as images. We'll see, but i really hope we're living in interesting times.
Problem is RED lies about there camera resolution. 6K does not mean the same to the photo world as it does to red.
 
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Edwin Herdman

Guest
Well, if somebody doesn't know the 6K refers to lines of horizontal resolution, now's their chance to get on board. Besides, in the DSLR world we usually talk about total megapixels instead anyway.

I'm no expert on RED (or anything else really!) but I am always wary of the company as it seems to announce a lot of products but then we don't get any releases for a few years. This kind of marketing behavior (announce something now that may come out years later so people don't gravitate to other formats) reminds me a bit of late-'90s Microsoft style behavior. Hell, when some of their cameras (which haven't been released) were announced, the 5D Mark II either hadn't been announced or was newly released.

I feel the RED products that are in the same resolution range as video-capable DSLRs are in trouble, because the DSLRs have volume and (almost certainly) price advantages over the RED products. The REDs may have a better lens mount, but it's not impossible to put a PL mount adapter on a EOS body either.
 
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Freeze_XJ

Guest
I'm not an expert either, but i've seen some results from the Red one, and that looked good ;) 4K is a lot of pixels, and it's out for a few years now. Yes, their pre-announcing is annoying every now and then, but on the other hand, Canon sometimes surprises you with an upgrade just after buying their now-dethroned champion... We can just hope that Red gets its production lines running smoother over time, and that they keep things as modular as they are.
Yes, they do count their pixels in odd ways, but 6K is at least 6000 pixels horizontally, and even if they use very wide sensors, that still makes them 2500 pixels high, giving them 15 megapixels. With APS-C that puts em straight into Canon country.
I feel the RED products that are in the same resolution range as video-capable DSLRs are in trouble, because the DSLRs have volume and (almost certainly) price advantages over the RED products.
They do have the volume advantage, but they're still cameras tuned towards video, instead of the other way round. Red has shown already that they just want to make a good videocamera, and they have no high-end business to protect. How long did it take Canon to implement 1080p 30fps on their DSLRs, while every pocket camera could do so easily? The knowledge was there, they could've put it in the 30D if they wanted, but they didn't. That's what frustrates me every now and then, so i hope Red, Sony and some others stir this market, so soon everyone has 4K+ in their camera, and we can pick one that suits us.
 
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Osiris30

Guest
Freeze_XJ said:
I'm not an expert either, but i've seen some results from the Red one, and that looked good ;) 4K is a lot of pixels, and it's out for a few years now. Yes, their pre-announcing is annoying every now and then, but on the other hand, Canon sometimes surprises you with an upgrade just after buying their now-dethroned champion... We can just hope that Red gets its production lines running smoother over time, and that they keep things as modular as they are.
Yes, they do count their pixels in odd ways, but 6K is at least 6000 pixels horizontally, and even if they use very wide sensors, that still makes them 2500 pixels high, giving them 15 megapixels. With APS-C that puts em straight into Canon country.
I feel the RED products that are in the same resolution range as video-capable DSLRs are in trouble, because the DSLRs have volume and (almost certainly) price advantages over the RED products.
They do have the volume advantage, but they're still cameras tuned towards video, instead of the other way round. Red has shown already that they just want to make a good videocamera, and they have no high-end business to protect. How long did it take Canon to implement 1080p 30fps on their DSLRs, while every pocket camera could do so easily? The knowledge was there, they could've put it in the 30D if they wanted, but they didn't. That's what frustrates me every now and then, so i hope Red, Sony and some others stir this market, so soon everyone has 4K+ in their camera, and we can pick one that suits us.
I'm confused.. you hope Sony will stir things up, and then say Canon has high-end product to protect. Sony is as big or bigger on the high-end as Canon. Why do you think it took them so long to come to the DSLR video party in the first place. Sony is the last place I would look for top line video products outside of their commercial line. Canon (right or wrong) did still lead the DSLR video revolution (being the first widely accepted and usable product in that category).

Red and others will continue to have specialty niche products, but I really can't see any of Red's products ever being economically competitive with the meat of Canon or Sony or Nikon or anyone else's SLR product offerings.
 
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Edwin Herdman

Guest
Does the Red ONE still take as long to boot as it used to?
Freeze_XJ said:
[Canon] do have the volume advantage [over i.e. Red Camera], but they're still cameras tuned towards video, instead of the other way round. Red has shown already that they just want to make a good videocamera, and they have no high-end business to protect.
A very good point, though it's worth mentioning that Canon does have video-focused products around this quality and price range already. There is the XF 300 / 305 and now the less expensive XF 100 / 105 camcorders - made and marketed more for broadcast journalism and high mobility than I suppose the Red ONE is, so a different segment. Volume advantage remains here as well.

A lot gets lost in the complexity of the marketing / focus of each camera fairly quickly. I think that Canon - or Sony - has the muscle to move into basically any segment Red wants to get into. We'll see how it turns out, but my money is not on the newcomer.
 
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Freeze_XJ

Guest
Osiris30 said:
I'm confused.. you hope Sony will stir things up, and then say Canon has high-end product to protect. Sony is as big or bigger on the high-end as Canon. Why do you think it took them so long to come to the DSLR video party in the first place. Sony is the last place I would look for top line video products outside of their commercial line. Canon (right or wrong) did still lead the DSLR video revolution (being the first widely accepted and usable product in that category).
Sorry for the confusion, but i meant that Canon wants to protect its video business (with the XF series), so they're hesitant to implement high-end video in their DSLRs, especially the cheaper ones. Sony really wants marketshare in the DSLR market, and they have the video knowledge from their professional cameras. I hope (and think) they'll make cameras tuned towards video, thus hoping to attract attention. Nikon lacks the top-end videocameras (i think, i never really seen them), so they will have to develop the technology from scratch.

Edwin : my money isn't on Red as the final winner either, but there's no denying they do have money, and they're willing to give it a go. Doing just that, they can still push things forward, which is good (for us). They are aiming at the movie makers right now, but if they add still frames to their cameras, they suddenly improve their lineup by quite a bit. And then they compete with the 1D(s)4 directly, as well as the 5D2. They won't reach 60D or other consumer cameras, but the technology trickles down soon enough. If i'm correct on both points, Sony comes with cameras from below, Red from above... and Canon? Stuck in the middle, bound to beat both.