Canon Announces EOS 60D

[gkreis]

Some interesting details. As far as I know 1D Mark III-IV, 5D mark II, 7D and 50D have AF microadjustment. Interestingly that detail was mentioned in press releases of 1D Mark III , 5D mark II and 50D only.
I contacted Canon USA and asked if there is a chance that Canon will implement AF microadjustment in production model. Here's their response:

"There is currently no information regarding whether the 60D will have AF
microadjustment. The pre-production version does not, but we do not
know if the production model will. The camera was just announced today,
so there is very limited information. We will have more information in
a few weeks."

Who knows how to contact Canon CEO?

I hope you are right, but do you think they would add it when the website details don't show it? I know they don't say it doesn't have it. But I guess I don't know if they have ever done that between the news released and before the camera is actually sold?

Interesting.....

 

[scw]

I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one. "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00" (Cue the crying baby.) Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around ...

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D.

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.

I agree 100% with c.d.embrey, my thoughts exactly!

 

[gkreis]

Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.

Then why is it in the higher priced models? Are you predicting it will be removed from all future Canon models?

Does anyone know if the focus tuning that Canon does when you send in a lens and body (say a 40D) is essentially the same thing as micro focus adjustment in the 7D, 50D, etc.? If it is essentially the same then it is NOT useless. I am amazed at what they tuning of my lenses with my 40D. It went from I didn't want to take pictures to me marveling at their sharpness.

Not sure if you are serious. But when you micro adjust, you adjust for one fixed set of focal length, distance to the subject and aperture. Essentially it is for emergency cases when you can't focus properly and you need to make that shot no matter what. But it still has to be professionaly calibrated afterwards. At a service center, they never micro AF adjust. For a zoom lens for example, they adjust 8 control points. A properly calibrated lens does not need any micro AF adjustment, period.

So it will probably be left in the pro models (see emergency cases where there is no service center near you and you need to make the shot now, not tomorrow), but in consumer products such as XX series? No.

I am serious. I am ignorant of what goes in the service center when they calibrate the lens with the camera and I haven't found anything that describes it.

I know this. My 40D and lenses were tack sharp after Canon calibrated them. Then my 40D died. They replaced the electronics and the camera went right back to the same poor focus performance. So what they did earlier seems to have been stored in the electronics. Also, the Canon rep told me they do not adjust lenses themselves as I expressed concern it might affect it with another body. So I sent the 40D back with three lenses (the 100mm Macro was spot on) and the magic was restored.

So, if they don't actually do anything to the lens, are they doing some sort of highly sophisticated form of micro-adjustment? Why did my settings all disappear when the electronics board was replaced?

I'd love someone to point me to some info on the web that could explain when the center does when they calibrate the body with the lenses.

Thanks.

P.S.
Some folks say that micro-adjustment only affects the focal length you adjust and that it is a waste of time. Others have sworn by the results. So who is right?

 

[ELK]

I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one. "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00" (Cue the crying baby.) Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around ...

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D.

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.

I agree 100% with c.d.embrey, my thoughts exactly!

Please excuse my curiosity, but I can't understand what you don't like in $1500 7D so much in that you were ready to pay $1300 for 60D on day one???

 

[drummstikk]

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release.

OK, I'm with you so far. . .

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need.

But. . . but. . . the 7D IS an "upgraded 50D with an 18mp sensor and video." You're chomping at the bit to spend $1300.00, but you absolutely can't come up with that last $235.00 for a 7D (current B&H price is $1535.00)?

I don't see how your mythical "upgraded 50D" has any real differentiation from the 7D. Canon is a business, and we who work (or "play") with their cameras and lenses need them to stay healthy as a business. For months people have been dreaming of a camera pretty much identical to 7D except for the price tag. That's just not realistic.

If you ask me, the 60D looks like a pretty good value for $1099.00. It pretty evenly splits the gap in features AND price between T2i and 7D, which makes perfect sense in the ongoing development of the Canon line. The biggest problem (and here I return to my earlier point about stupid marketing on Canon's part) is that this camera is NOT the next logical progression in the xxD line. It's a departure in design and it's name should have reflected that.

Everybody is angry because it's called "60D" but it's not designed like the next camera in line after the 50D should be. That anger is understandable. If Canon had given the camera a different name, we'd all be looking at it as a new camera in a new niche. But no, Canon named it like a fine Italian entree, but it actually looks more like a frozen pizza. No wonder people are ticked off.

 

[backshot_especiale]

it's quite obvious what canon marketing have come up with as a strategy, when an awful lot of people (myself included) were saying this time last year that the new 7d was the new 60d, so they release a disappointment camera with the aim not to sell it but to force an upsale, that's basic capitalism, not saying it is the right way to run things but what do you all expect?

They intend for potential buyers and upgraders to go to 7d or 5dii (whilst constraining supply to keep prices buoyant) I'd have rather seen canon move this same small sensor to a mirrorless camera system, rangefinder style body, small like the sensor, with the focus on manual shooting, prime lenses and flexibility. As it currently stands micro 4 3rds is looking quite good as a balance between sensor size and handling.

The G12 would have been great if it was more like the gf1.
The 60d on product history should have been a 12-18 megapixel full frame sensor in the same body, that would have been a bold, wise and creative move by canon, they pussied out, they had a massive market but have been too complacent.

 

[Grendel]

Re: 60D does remote Infrared

Hmmm, did anyone else notice that Canon have added back infra-red remote control activation to the 60D?

Not too surprising, the 450D, 500D, and 550D (plus 7D & 5DII) all have it..

 

[c.d.embrey]

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need.

But. . . but. . . the 7D IS an "upgraded 50D with an 18mp sensor and video." You're chomping at the bit to spend $1300.00, but you absolutely can't come up with that last $235.00 for a 7D (current B&H price is $1535.00)?
...

This is the Internet. Even if Canon had of delivered exactly what people are currently saying they want, they would have come up with some other excuse to not buy it because it was missing some other "must have feature" like Nikon's new video focus on the D3100, for example, and that they will wait until that is included.

Sorry guys, but you don't know me or what I do. And I do have the money to buy a 1Ds III so the extra $235.00 has nothing to do with it.

I use CENTER POINT focus only, so I don't need the 7Ds improved focus. I shoot in sunny SoCal, mainly in a studio, so I don't need the 7Ds weather proofing. For what I do I don't need 18MP or video, but that is what Canon wants to sell so I'm stuck with it.

BTW if the D3100 video focus was important to me I would not hesitate to buy a D3100. I sure wouldn't wait for Canon to implement it in the 70D. Cameras are just tools, always use the right tool for the job. And sometime the best tool is a Canon at at other times it's a Nikon, and occasionally a Sinar 4X5.

 

[hoktar]

Yea, that sounds real cool and all but you do know what you need lenses to use a camera?.....

 

[channs]

60D samples photos look great at both low ISO and high ISO.
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos60d/

Noise does seem to be much less than 50D.
Looks like a winner to me if Nikon cannot match the video quality.
The target customers seem to be those who want better build than lower range canon SLRs like XTi...T2i and want to carry only one camera for photo and video. Missing magnesium and weather sealing does not seem to be an issue for this target group...they would take care of the cameras with the cameras covered with plastic bags.. or pop out a point and shoot covered in plastic bag.
So there should be many buyers for this camera.

It can be really competitive if Canon can improve their kit lens like Nikon.

 

[unfocused]

This is the Internet. Even if Canon had delivered exactly what people are currently saying they want, they would have come up with some other excuse to not buy...

Well said.

Some of this discussion makes me want to scream. Cameras are a mass-produced product. Features have to balance out with demand. Companies weigh the incremental cost of adding a new feature against the expected increase in demand for that feature. There is no grand conspiracy to deny anyone anything or to purposely make a product less desirable.

If you want a camera that has ONLY the features you need, then contract with Canon, Nikon or any other company and have them custom build the camera for you. It will probably cost you a hundred grand or more, but hey, at least you won't be paying for features you don't need, right?

Of course my camera has features on it that I don't use. So does my car. So does Photoshop. So does my iPhone. So does my TV. What doesn't?

 

[CameraAddict]

If you want a camera that has ONLY the features you need, then contract with Canon, Nikon or any other company and have them custom build the camera for you. It will probably cost you a hundred grand or more, but hey, at least you won't be paying for features you don't need, right?

I would say you're taking things a little bit too extreme to prove your "point". xxD users who are unhappy with this line have valid points. Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.

But your response to it, now THAT is disproportionate. Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much? (computers, which DSLRs are, come down in price, they don't go up.) To expect Canon not to take away the features we've come to know and need, we're asking them to build us our very own camera? I think not, but that's just my own opinion.

 

[ELK]

... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.

.... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?

Would you upgrade to 60 if it was same as now, except with metal body, CF card and AF microadjustment?

 

[unfocused]

I would say you're taking things a little bit too extreme to prove your "point". xxD users who are unhappy with this line have valid points. Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so.

CameraAddict, I apologize if you thought my comments were aimed at everyone who was disappointed in the 60D. I understand that many people were expecting something different and I didn't mean to be critical of those with a reasonable level of disappointment. (Although in fairness, I think you'd have to admit that it wasn't a total surprise if you follow this forum.)

My frustration was with what I see as some pretty unrealistic and unfair criticisms by a handful of people. Since I don't particularly want to start a personal internet war, I won't go into specifics. I would just suggest that if you read over some of the comments that have been made over the past several weeks regarding the anticipated and now announced 60D, I think any reasonable person would admit that there were a lot of unrealistic expectations (actually, demands might be a more accurate description.)

I am not in the market for a new camera at this point, so I don't feel the personal disappointment that some apparently do. All I was really trying to do was remind people that Canon is a business and they make decisions based on business principles. You have a right to be disappointed is you feel a favorite brand has gone in a direction contrary to what you would like. But, you might want to ask yourself why they felt compelled to go in the direction they did. The simple answer is almost always that they are following the marketplace and what you or I think the market demands, may not actually be what the millions of consumers that Canon needs to survive are demanding.

 

[mthrope]

A hearty AMEN to the points expressed by "unfocused". Frankly, the whiners on this forum are reminiscent of a bunch of kindergartners complaining about the selection of toys they have to choose from. Mature exchanges of divergent points of view make for interesting forum posts. The relentless bitching and moaning about a piece of hardware on this forum suggest either too much or too little in the way of drugs are being consumed.

 

[unexposure]

... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.

.... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?

Would you upgrade to 60 if it was same as now, except with metal body, CF card and AF microadjustment?

That's a good point.
Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.

 

[Rocky]

... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.

.... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?

Would you upgrade to 60 if it was same as now, except with metal body, CF card and AF microadjustment?

I would. Even if it is proven that the camera body is solid with good plastic, I would still buy it. My 20D shutter release switch is the first thing to fail. So Mg body does not guarantee it will outlast the rest of the body part.

 

[Rocky]

If canon call the 60D by any other name rather than 60D (X0D), then most of us will be happy except wanting a real 60D.The only thing I will like to see on the 60D is the addition of the microadjustment. I just cannot see why some people make a big deal on the switch to SD from AF. SD is smaller lighter, sometimes even cheaper than the CF. As for plastic body. It is really depends on the design and the material. I know the Rebel body does not give me a solid feel. But every Nikon DSLR feels solid in my hand. And Nikon have been making plastic DSLR for a long time and nobody has really complain about them. So let us email Canon and urge them to add the microadjustment on 60D. From a price point, another $200 to$300 get you s super rebel (60D), with flip screen, penta prism, a few high end feature ( except the microadjustment) from the 7D and a much better ergonomic body,. It sound like a reasonable deal to me.

 

[gkreis]

60D samples photos look great at both low ISO and high ISO.
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos60d/

Noise does seem to be much less than 50D.
Looks like a winner to me if Nikon cannot match the video quality.
The target customers seem to be those who want better build than lower range canon SLRs like XTi...T2i and want to carry only one camera for photo and video. Missing magnesium and weather sealing does not seem to be an issue for this target group...they would take care of the cameras with the cameras covered with plastic bags.. or pop out a point and shoot covered in plastic bag.
So there should be many buyers for this camera.

It can be really competitive if Canon can improve their kit lens like Nikon.

I noticed the shots were all ISO 100 except for the 3200. I'd like for them to show some 800 and 1600 shots as well. The 3200 was pretty noisy and soft and that was jpg, which presumably had some noise reduction applied in the camera.

I like to see the RAW shots so we can see what we are up against for editing. Showing jpgs all the time is of no value to me, I don't shoot it. I will say that the jpgs are generally very well processed by the camera, but the control you lose is not worth the convenience.

I will say the video looks great. Any noisy is smeared by the movement, so it is not noticeable. That medium seems to be more forgiving. While the video looks great, it is also a bit of wishful thinking for a consumer. It took of work to get those results. But it was neat how they showed the lenses used for each segment of the video.

I am waiting to see what makes it into the final firmware and how the reviews turn up (some post RAW shots, but I'll also need to my RAW processor updated for it, so... another delay for the decision.)

I bet Canon sells a lot of the 60Ds if for no other reason than the articulated screen.

 

[c.d.embrey]

That's a good point.
Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.

The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other dislike the switch from CF to SD.

The reason I don't like the switch to SD is that no professional camera uses SD cards. My 40D uses CF cards, the 1Ds II uses CF cards, the Pro Nikons (D300s, D3s and D3x) use CF cards, Hasselblad use CF cards, Phase One uses CF cards, Leaf Digital Backs use CF cards and Sinar Digital Backs us CF cards. I own a bunch of SanDisk Extreme iV CF cards that fit what I own and also any other professional camera I rent. I don't buy my memory cards from discounters and really don't care about cheap off brand SD cards.

I don't own a P&S camera or anything else that uses SD cards. Why would I want to buy a camera that uses SD cards.

You could tell this was coming when the flagship Canon 1Ds III had a CF Card Type I and II, and SD/SDHC Memory Cards (1 slot each), while Nikon D3 has two CF slots.

Your milage probably does vary.