Canon Announces the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS III and EF 70-200mm f/4L IS II

Ozarker

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ahsanford said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Then again, you see his example photos. He really was hoping that Canon would up his game. ::)

It would appear your personal Mk III phase of your life is a looking a lot like your Mk II phase: classy as always.

- A

Yes, always. Immature children constantly whine and complain. Adults know they can't always get what they want, as much as they want, or get it how they want it.

Earlier you said, I believe, that this is not evolutionary. Well, that's exactly what it is. Evolution takes small steps. maybe the word you were looking for was "revolutionary". At any rate, while you have the freedom to do so and by all means go ahead, making up 50 posts about how disappointed you are is a little unhinged.

Changing up the coatings and whatever else they did that makes this lens different, warrants a change from Mark II to Mark III. Maybe you live in the Microsoft world and would have been satisfied with Mark 2.1?

You see, it isn't what you are saying, it's that you drone on and on and on. We all get it already. You ain't happy. You'd have done it differently if you were the one in charge. :'(
 
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Ozarker

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ken said:
AdamBotond said:
This 2.8 Mark III is just an insult to fellow photographers. All they could achieve in 8 years is a flare reducing coating and new painting in a flagship telephoto zoom? That is blasphemous.
With the 4.0 mark II having 5 stops stabilisation, IS mode 3, shorter MFD etc... am I asking too much by putting just these tech, nothing more into a flagship 70-200 workhorse from Canon? Again, they clearly have the tech to do so, they just decided to cripple it once again. Much like they did with the 24-105 successor. Shame.

They are updating their manufacturing processes to increase automation. This has been well documented. So maybe an internal screw or bracket has to be modified to support robotic assembly vs human assembly. This will make the lens cheaper to manufacturer AND should decrease deviations from one lens to the other. But it also means it's ever so slightly different from a mark ii, and requires a new name. So they did a small coating upgrade and plan to sell it at the same price.

If you were a manufacturer, updating your manufacturing lines, which lines would you address first? The ones with the highest return-on-investment. Which is to say, it's a function of the lines with highest throughput and the cost savings expected from the automation. Hence... the kit lens was first because you produce more of them than anything else. And now the popular "high-dollar" EF lens, which is likely costly to manually assemble due to its complexity. Expect a 24-70 refresh soon.

They're a business. They're not crippling things to piss off their customers. They're focussed on increasing margins. Those margins will eventually flow back into R&D to keep them competitive. The mark ii already compares very well to it's competition. I don't see how anyone can see delivering a slightly improved product for about the same price as some kind of scheme to rip them off. No offense intended to you, but it's actually mind-boggling to me the way people across this forum are reacting.

A voice of reason in an unreasonably hissy fitted world.
 
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ken

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infared said:
Hey....I have the 2.8L IS II. I like my flare, just the way it is ....<snip>

I thought I was the only one! Sometimes a little lens flare is quite elegant. I certainly wouldn't want it to be virtually impossible to get when actually wanted. I guess most people Photoshop it in as needed these days. :)
 
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ahsanford said:
scyrene said:
ahsanford said:
Why do high end car manufacturers -- even ones with high quality standards (Mercedes, Audi, etc.) -- have race teams? ::)
Do you really think that is the model to follow? Flashy, maybe headline-grabbing stuff that makes no practical difference to customers' experiences?

My bad: I should have specified. I meant the much less flashy rally/road racing, where bleeding edge tech leads to high performance and winning. I'm not a big racing aficionado, but a friend is, and I would hear stories to no end how Audi was mopping the floor with folks with some turbodiesel fancypants design. That built a reputation around the brand of what the rest of company's offerings could do.

One could argue Canon's best glass is serving that exact same sort of role for the EF portfolio at large: showy, super expensive, but man, it delivers. Not every Canon lens is a value/reliability-obsessed Honda -- some are supercars with spectacular engineering.

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying. I don't think the analogy holds though.

ahsanford said:
scyrene said:
LOL! You do remember they're a commercial enterprise? Everything they do is commercial, whether you interpret it that way or not. Nobody is making you buy this lens. How is it a problem that a minor upgrade gets a new model number (which seems to be the nub of the criticism)? The lineup is not worse than it was a week ago, in some small ways it may be better. I genuinely don't understand your problem with this.

My beef is that they are hooking up the cash wagon to a lens that serves an additional role to the business than just earning cash. Some elements of EF tent up the reputation of the system -- this is absolutely one of them.

Help me understand how this offering increases folks' esteem or perceived value of the brand. I don't believe it does (unless colors matching is a must for you). It's an overtly/strictly commercial move to me because all it's going to do is make money -- not improve the system, unlock new functionality, improve the reputation of the brand, etc.

I like the fact that Canon has a few very special lenses no one else can match. Slapping white paint on one of those special lenses and having the audacity to call it new and improved tarnishes the brand, IMHO. That's all.

Well first of all, you're being a little unfair to say it's just 'slapping white paint on'. It sounds like a fairly modest change*, for sure, but how is it worse than not refreshing the thing at all? If these changes were made but the numbering wasn't changed (and I think I've heard that some long-standing products do have minor updates over the years, 'under the hood' so to speak), you'd be fine with it, right? So it *is* about the naming, essentially. Second, I still don't see why making money is to be condemned in this context - they aren't doing anything malign, nobody is being stiffed. As for reputation, or 'perceived value', I doubt the vast majority will notice or care. It pisses you off, that's absolutely fine. But let's not dress this up as anything approaching objective criticism. It seems they touched a nerve for some reason.

*I recall one or two Canon releases of the last couple of years being praised on the Lens Rentals blog (when they tore them down) for the updates to internal construction and design - stuff that will almost certainly not affect us normal users, but is still considered and positive. These things aren't ever mentioned in marketing materials or on spec sheets though.
 
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fullstop said:
Larsskv said:
Further, if you move outside the canonrumors world and into the “real world” where people care more about the pictures they get, than which lens they use, I guess that most people appreciate that Canon puts their best coatings on the lenses they have for sale, and that they don’t blame Canon for the lack of redesigning one of their most popular lenses.

wow! You just qualified for a "Can-Apologist Merit Award 2nd class"! ;D

And you qualify for vacuous critic bronze award, congratulations.
 
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scyrene said:
ahsanford said:
scyrene said:
ahsanford said:
Why do high end car manufacturers -- even ones with high quality standards (Mercedes, Audi, etc.) -- have race teams? ::)
Do you really think that is the model to follow? Flashy, maybe headline-grabbing stuff that makes no practical difference to customers' experiences?

My bad: I should have specified. I meant the much less flashy rally/road racing, where bleeding edge tech leads to high performance and winning. I'm not a big racing aficionado, but a friend is, and I would hear stories to no end how Audi was mopping the floor with folks with some turbodiesel fancypants design. That built a reputation around the brand of what the rest of company's offerings could do.

One could argue Canon's best glass is serving that exact same sort of role for the EF portfolio at large: showy, super expensive, but man, it delivers. Not every Canon lens is a value/reliability-obsessed Honda -- some are supercars with spectacular engineering.

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying. I don't think the analogy holds though.

ahsanford said:
scyrene said:
LOL! You do remember they're a commercial enterprise? Everything they do is commercial, whether you interpret it that way or not. Nobody is making you buy this lens. How is it a problem that a minor upgrade gets a new model number (which seems to be the nub of the criticism)? The lineup is not worse than it was a week ago, in some small ways it may be better. I genuinely don't understand your problem with this.

My beef is that they are hooking up the cash wagon to a lens that serves an additional role to the business than just earning cash. Some elements of EF tent up the reputation of the system -- this is absolutely one of them.

Help me understand how this offering increases folks' esteem or perceived value of the brand. I don't believe it does (unless colors matching is a must for you). It's an overtly/strictly commercial move to me because all it's going to do is make money -- not improve the system, unlock new functionality, improve the reputation of the brand, etc.

I like the fact that Canon has a few very special lenses no one else can match. Slapping white paint on one of those special lenses and having the audacity to call it new and improved tarnishes the brand, IMHO. That's all.

Well first of all, you're being a little unfair to say it's just 'slapping white paint on'. It sounds like a fairly modest change*, for sure, but how is it worse than not refreshing the thing at all? If these changes were made but the numbering wasn't changed (and I think I've heard that some long-standing products do have minor updates over the years, 'under the hood' so to speak), you'd be fine with it, right? So it *is* about the naming, essentially. Second, I still don't see why making money is to be condemned in this context - they aren't doing anything malign, nobody is being stiffed. As for reputation, or 'perceived value', I doubt the vast majority will notice or care. It pisses you off, that's absolutely fine. But let's not dress this up as anything approaching objective criticism. It seems they touched a nerve for some reason.

*I recall one or two Canon releases of the last couple of years being praised on the Lens Rentals blog (when they tore them down) for the updates to internal construction and design - stuff that will almost certainly not affect us normal users, but is still considered and positive. These things aren't ever mentioned in marketing materials or on spec sheets though.

Just to your last point, my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released.
The changes here, but without the announcement of it being a new lens would have gone down better I suspect, as there would be the chance of a true upgrade in the possible short term also
 
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Isaacheus said:
Just to your last point, my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released.
The changes here, but without the announcement of it being a new lens would have gone down better I suspect, as there would be the chance of a true upgrade in the possible short term also

Okay. But when this new version was rumoured, most owners of the mark II seemed to say 'there's no need for a new version'. If the II was near perfect (according to them), then a long wait for a mark IV is no big deal, right?
 
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unfocused

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Isaacheus said:
...my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released...

Here we go again.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Since there was no need to improve the 70-200 f2.8 in the first place why should anyone be disappointed?
[*]What law says that Canon has to wait some arbitrary amount of time to upgrade the MkIII? If the lens eventually needs updating, Canon is free to update it at any time. Whether that is in eight years or one year will not be impacted by the release of the Mk III.It will be done when the technology and market demand an upgrade.
[/list]
 
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lexptr said:
Talys said:
The real question is, if I didn't already own a 70-200/2.8IS2, would I be tempted to look at the f/4?

With the benefit of experience, probably not; 2.8 is too important for portraiture, probably autofocuses faster, and gives nice isolation for patio bird shots. But I'd likely think about it if I weren't already a 2.8 user. The MFD on the new 4 is nice, too.
I think, there is no way from faster lens to slower. No matter how cool the slower one is :)
The update of f4 looks very-very nice. So nice, that I also started to consider. But no. No way. Will ether wait and by the "fake-upgraded" f2.8 mark III or get by with my 100-400L II for tele and buy even faster primes for portraits and such. Almost decided on the new 85 f1.4.

Yes way for me. I prefer the lighter weight. Thank you.
 
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Jan 22, 2012
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unfocused said:
Isaacheus said:
...my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released...

Here we go again.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Since there was no need to improve the 70-200 f2.8 in the first place why should anyone be disappointed?
[*]What law says that Canon has to wait some arbitrary amount of time to upgrade the MkIII? If the lens eventually needs updating, Canon is free to update it at any time. Whether that is in eight years or one year will not be impacted by the release of the Mk III.It will be done when the technology and market demand an upgrade.
[/list]

Yes
 
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Jan 22, 2012
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Don Haines said:
I would prefer that Canon did not improve the coatings and keep the lens the same price.... said nobody.....

The original was as good as it could be for that price range..... there really was not much room for improvement, so out comes a minor update....

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, and that's not the target market.... it is new buyers. Should they be denied the latest advancements because some people have bought the previous version?

Well said. They just made a better lens. Be happy. Upgrade only if you want....
 
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unfocused said:
Isaacheus said:
...my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released...

Here we go again.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Since there was no need to improve the 70-200 f2.8 in the first place why should anyone be disappointed?
[*]What law says that Canon has to wait some arbitrary amount of time to upgrade the MkIII? If the lens eventually needs updating, Canon is free to update it at any time. Whether that is in eight years or one year will not be impacted by the release of the Mk III.It will be done when the technology and market demand an upgrade.
[/list]

Looking at the comments, I get the feeling there are some that feel the mk2 could have been updated for a few things, is mode 3 etc. While I understand that it's a high performing lens, I believe the latest Nikon is considered very slightly sharper, and this is considered one of the staple offerings - others might want to know that they have the best instrument possible?

For the second point, Canon seems to be very conservative about releases, I can't see Canon rushing one out again soon. Take the current 50mm 1.4, seems to have been a bit of market demand for an upgrade on that for a while now.

Not saying that I felt it needed upgrading myself, but I can see why others would be disappointed in the update.
 
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Ozarker

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unfocused said:
Isaacheus said:
...my take is that there is disappointment due to the unlikelihood of having a true replacement anytime soon, due to having this released...

Here we go again.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Since there was no need to improve the 70-200 f2.8 in the first place why should anyone be disappointed?
[*]What law says that Canon has to wait some arbitrary amount of time to upgrade the MkIII? If the lens eventually needs updating, Canon is free to update it at any time. Whether that is in eight years or one year will not be impacted by the release of the Mk III.It will be done when the technology and market demand an upgrade.
[/list]

Haters gonna hate, no matter what.
 
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please CFB, spare us those truisms. ahsanford certainly is no (Canon) hater. really uncalled for.

all of the comments on the f/4 update are (rightfully) positive. it looks as if Canon has come up with some good improvements to an already excellent lens.

critical comments re. f/2.8 III express the disappointment that Canon was not able (or did not want?) to deliver a similar level of improvements. while nobody complains about new, better lens coatings or the new paint job per se, it is not what Canon lovers (!) would have hoped for: canon goong all out to offer its customers the all-around "best in class" 70-200 lens on the market, bith in terms of image quality and in terms of features and functionality, like for example a 5 stop IS with mide 3, a 9 blade iris, arca-dovetails in the tripod foot, or a new, amazingly good "lens collar solution". implementing some of these items on the lower scale f/4 lens, but not any of them on the "top tier" f/2.8 lens is what caused quite understandable disappointment - especially amongst "the Canon faithful".

i am fully with ahsanford that from a brand recognition/marketing perspective canon should really have invested more effort when upgrading one of its top "brand ambassador" flagship products. Canon should not do updates to such a product that only cause a "well, why bother" response in the market. it should really be "wow, Canon has again knocked one out of the park!".
 
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