Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600

[jaduffy007]

[DR is] the very essence of image capture!

Oh, is that right, now?

Firstly: any problems with the DR in these images, from my "lowly" 7D?

This to this.


But you're doing what so many on here do: you assume that what you shoot is what everyone else shoots, that what you want from a camera is all anyone could want from a camera, and that this is therefore all that matters when evaluating one body against another.

Well, you're wrong. Completely, utterly, and unequivocally wrong.

Hilarious. First, from your comments, you really don't understand the enormous benefits of greater DR. Then, make statements that are entirely based on "assuming what you shoot is what everyone else shoots"...only in the end to criticize people for doing so. CLASSIC !!! Mirror please.

 

[cliffwang]

Cliff, I don't think switching is as costly as many make it out to be, especially if you buy (trade) used. Plenty of mint condition equipment "out there". Just need to make sure Nikon makes lenses to replace your fav Canon glass. Nikon has great glass, but has winners and losers just like Canon. For example, if you use a Canon 17mm TS a lot, Nikon doesn't make a TS that's quite as good. On the other hand, Canon doesn't make a lens that equals Nikon's 14-24.

If the D600 really comes out at $1500 / 1600...wow. Especially after the D800, that will make many contemplate if they're on the "right ship". Canon would absolutely have to respond with a competing product imo. Not even a used 5d2 would be equal to the rumored D600.

The great thing is, you can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon

I like to buy new lenses because I can return them if I get a bad copy(not my 24-70mm). I don't want to buy lenses from someone I don't know. That's why I believe it's costy for me to switch to Nikon. Hopefully we will see the Canon's response to D600 if the D600 rumor is true.

 

[Marsu42]

With LR4, the D800 will allow you to HDR a scene with one photo that would take multiple shots with anything that Canon offers. The D800 allows you to say "I don't need 3 exposures for HDR to get the most out of this scene, I can do it with one!"

Many typical hdr scenes (like shooting in the snow or at the beach with bright sunlight and wanting to have details in the shadows) will still require 3,5,7... exposures for some time to come, even with the d800 sensor. I'd like to have it to on my Canon of course, but let's stay realistic what it can do. And it cannot entirely replace hdr.

Btw: it's a viable option with any sensor to hdr or better exposure fuse a single picture with LR because it saves you local editing, I wish Adobe would build single image exposure fusion into it out of the box.

 

[hutjeflut]

nah doesnt have focus points in the 4 corners so i dont want it.

i dont get excited untill i can shoot at night without flash or untill we get focus points in the corners.

 

[Kernuak]

Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

 

[cliffwang]

Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

I still believe light and composition is the most important factors for photography. However, if a camera can bring you more convenience, why not?
By the way, D800 is not high frame rate for me. 7D is much faster than D800. If I have lot of money, I will consider 1D X and D4.

 

[briansquibb]

Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

I still believe light and composition is the most important factors for photography. However, if a camera can bring you more convenience, why not?
By the way, D800 is not high frame rate for me. 7D is much faster than D800. If I have lot of money, I will consider 1D X and D4.

+1

I would love to see the images that the D800 fanboys think have a DR of 14. I have been through about of thousand of mine and most are in the 8stop area, with one maxxing out at about 10.5 - this is on the 1DS3 which is capable of about 11 stop.

If this is true across the board then very few will benefit from the DR of the D800. So then it would just be a case of choosing between fps and mps.

 

[aznable]

yes $3000 for a camera at 36mpix that is slower than my 450D taking photos. now the option for nikonians are 12mpix/36mpix, and the d800 has a better sensor than d700, so in my opinion a faster camera with a good sensor at 24mpix would kill also the d800 sales

It all depends on what you value in a camera. But what do you mean by slower? So far as I can tell, the D800 is 4 frames per second and the 450D is 3.5 frames per second, meaning that the D800 is faster?

ops sorry, my mistake, it's a long time i dont use that camera; just wanted to say that 12mpix more than 24mpix will not justify the double of the price, so the sales of d800 would be killed.

anyway i think that d600 will have a lot of features scaled down from d800

btw we are getting too serious about those rumors...this topic is a joke plain and simple

 

[briansquibb]

I wonder if the end of this year will see Canon on the bottom of the megapixel pile in all DSLR categories?

Like the D4 vs 1DX flagship catagory??

 

[AvTvM]

ops sorry, my mistake, it's a long time i dont use that camera; just wanted to say that 12mpix more than 24mpix will not justify the double of the price, so the sales of d800 would be killed.
anyway i think that d600 will have a lot of features scaled down from d800
btw we are getting too serious about those rumors...this topic is a joke plain and simple

I look at it this way: Nikon made a blatant mistake with the D3x ... 24 Megapixels, FF sensor ... but way too expensive. Result: the D3x did not sell at all. Nikon realized what the problem was and released the D800 ... 36 fantastic Megapixels combined with virtuellay every other hi-end feature of the D3x [AF, metering, etc.] ... at HALF THE PRICE. This is why the D800 is such a game-changer. It establishes a totally new price-structure for higher-end DSLRs. A D600 with 24MP, slightly scaled-back features and a price of USD/€ 1500-1700 will nicely complement it.

Old structure, "pre-2012/D800"
* Canon and Nikon "flagship big megapixel DSLR with all the trimmings, except speed" (D3x, 1Ds3): USD/€ 6,000
* Canon/Nikon - speed flagship DSLR with max. speed, but less resolution (D3/s, 1D IV) - USD/$ 4,000
* Canon/Nikon "second tier, massively downscaled FF-DSLR" (5D1+2, D700): USD/€ 2,500

New structure:
* Nikon D4/Canon 1D X - flagship specialist journalism/sports camera, max speed, limited resolution - USD/€ 6,000
* Nikon D800 - max. resolution, fully featured, except speed: USD/€ 2,900
* Nikon D600 - second-tier FF-model, less resolutuon, features scaled back: USD/€ 1,500-1,700

Canon has failed to adequately repond to this and will undoubtedly pay the price in market share. While the 5D3 is definitely a good camera, it is nothing more than what the 5D2 should have been from the very start. As so often with Canon: too little, too late, too expensive. In order to really win big time, it would have needed a killer new sensor [24 MP would have been enough, but with massively mproved DR and Hi-ISO noise] and a killer feature helping users to more keeper shots more easily - e.g. fully working, 2012 implementation of Eye Control Focus - in order to justify a higher price and effectively compete with the D800.

And yes, initial 5D3 sales may be good, as impatient people are skimmed off their excess purchasing power (no problem with that). And yes, Pro's may not switch immediately due to large system investment.

But MANY "FF-upgraders"/enthusiasts/semi-pro's will quite easily switch from Canon to Nikon. Especially since they need to sell their EF-S lenses anyway since these are unusable on Canon FF DSLRs. Even more so, if/when Nikon comes out with a 24 MP, "well-enough featured" D600 @ USD/€ 1500-1700. There are many more people (amateurs) able and willing to spend that amount of money rather than 3 grand or more for a camera. The D600 will therefore nicely complement the D800 ... difference in price, resolution and features will be nicely balanced.

 

[aznable]

a scaled down FF camera already exists...it's from canon, has 21mpix sensor and it's called 5D mkII; selling for 1600€ here in italy

i cannot see crowds of amateur switching from their aps-c camera maybe because they dont care about FF

 

[AvTvM]

a scaled down FF camera already exists...it's from canon, has 21mpix sensor and it's called 5D mkII; selling for 1600€ here in italy
i cannot see crowds of amateur switching from their aps-c camera maybe because they dont care about FF

Once a D600 comes out, the 5D 2 will no longer be a contender ... not very many people will find a 4 year old camera design attractive, when a new FF cam with better sensor/IQ and way better AF-system and other photographic features (Auto ISO for example ...) is available at a similar price.

Depending on video capabilities of a D600, the 5D 2 (with ML) may remain interesting to video-users though.

 

[aznable]

it's pointless...the 5D MKII exist and the D600 it's a rumor; so we have now a relatively inexpensive FF camera with FPS and AF scaled down from MK3 and a similar sensor technology and it's not putting the market on storm for sure.

if the D600 will have the stellar sensor that you and some Others are dreaming (it will end-up with a better high iso performance than the D800 one, same DR and 30% Mpix less), more FPS, same A, it would destroy the D800 sales for sure and i dont think nikon wants that. they have to cut a lot and they will do… starting with a no-wather sealed body built with more policarbonate and a sensor not so capable

 

[Marsu42]

it would destroy the D800 sales for sure and i dont think nikon wants that.

Nikon does not necessarily act like Canon. Canon with it's large market share tries to squeeze as much $$$ as they can get away with out of their existing customer base. Nikon obviously wants to gain market share and sell lenses and maybe they place this priority over internal cannibalizing of the d600/d800.

 

[cliffwang]

Once a D600 comes out, the 5D 2 will no longer be a contender ... not very many people will find a 4 year old camera design attractive, when a new FF cam with better sensor/IQ and way better AF-system and other photographic features (Auto ISO for example ...) is available at a similar price.

Depending on video capabilities of a D600, the 5D 2 (with ML) may remain interesting to video-users though.

I don't care about it is new or old model. 5D2 actually is good for me. What the D600 rumor makes me interested in is 39 AF and cheaper price.
I believe 5D2's price will be lower than D600 if Canon has no new model to response to D600. And Nikon no doubt will gain some entry level FF market from Canon. I am so happy to see that because we all end-users are big winners here.

Nikon does not necessarily act like Canon. Canon with it's large market share tries to squeeze as much $$$ as they can get away with out of their existing customer base. Nikon obviously wants to gain market share and sell lenses and maybe they place this priority over internal cannibalizing of the d600/d800.

+1
That's what I thought. Nikon is trying to get more market share with lower profit. And Canon is trying to maximum its profit with it market share power. That's how to run a business. Just too many people cannot see the points. Canon and Nikon are big companies and have many investors. Their decision makers need to make right decisions for their investors, not their users.

 

[Kernuak]

A work colleague has the D800. Aside from his amusement about the US apparently grabbing the European share of the early batches, leading to the US market haveing the worst of the teething problems (such as major lockups), he couldn't understand some of the gripes that are being aired on these forums. I asked him if he is able to pull 4 stops of shadow detail. His response was "why would I want to?". I think that says it all about the importance of the reported 14 stops of DR. If and when I get the 5D MkIII, then we could do some comparisons, but by that time, I expect (hope) there would be some comparisons to settle it once and for all, rather than listening to hearsay and lab tests.

 

[jaduffy007]

Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

Ignoring your sarcasm....
I don't understand why you don't see the value in greater DR. Why wouldn't you want images that get far closer to the DR your eyes can perceive, resulting in more life-like, powerful images? DR is a big deal.

 

[jaduffy007]

'Better' is a subjective word that implies personal taste/requirements w.h.y.

If fps is a requirement for a person then if camera delivers the required fps then it is clearly better for that person than one that doesn't

In my case and Keith's clearly we feel the need for fps. Therefore the D800 fails at that point.

5D3 measuring up to your needs doesn't change the fact that it's an overpriced camera that disappointed many people.

You haven't worked this out yet. I dont have a 5DIII nor am I buying one

The value of an item is subjective so to tell us that it is overpriced is meaningless as it only tells us your opinion

Can you please share your measuring stick that is free from subjectivity and opinion?

 

[D_Rochat]

Why won't this thread just die already!?!

 

[wickidwombat]

Why won't this thread just die already!?!

because it got bitten by the DR zombie i think you need to shoot it in the head...