Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

[jolyonralph]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

Can you read properly? quite weathersealed means not weathersealed, but it's better than normal lenses. You make your world as you want it and then have the big mouth and try to be funny.

You say it's 'quite weathersealed' but this is grammatical nonsense, somewhat like "a little pregnant". Either something is sealed, or it is not sealed.

Now, the 85 II may be, whether by design or accident, better protected so that it lasts LONGER in the rain before letting moisture in than other non-weathersealed lenses, but it's not weathersealed (despite what the incorrect statement on the B&H website says) so to mislead people into thinking that it it SAFE to use this lens in all weathers is HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

Do whatever you want with your own kit, but don't encourage others to take risks.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

@neuroanatomist
Can you read properly? quite weathersealed means not weathersealed, but it's better than normal lenses. You make your world as you want it and then have the big mouth and try to be funny. That may work with your kind of guys but not in real life. You have to understand what other people write before you answer. Try it. It helps.

Yes, I can read properly. Can you?

[quote author=Google]
quite kwīt/ adverb
1. to the utmost or most absolute extent or degree; absolutely; completely.
"it's quite out of the question"
synonyms: completely, entirely, totally, wholly, absolutely, utterly, thoroughly, altogether
"two quite different types"
2. to a certain or fairly significant extent or degree; fairly.
"it's quite warm outside"
synonyms: fairly, rather, somewhat, slightly, relatively, comparatively, moderately, reasonably, to a certain extent;
[/quote]

[quote author=Merriam-Webster]
quite adverb \ˈkwīt\
1: wholly, completely
2: to an extreme
3: to a considerable extent
[/quote]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood? You have to understand what you write when you write it. Try it. It helps.

Oh, and you didn't just state 'quite weathersealed', you also stated, "The body is well sealed." In that context, the primary definition of 'quite' is the logical understanding. Evidently, your logical competence is right up there with your linguistic skills.

Incidentally, even 'quite weathersealed' as in 'to a fairly significant extent' or 'somewhat' is incorrect. As a Canon rep stated, the 85L II has no special gaskets or seals.

As for your B&H link, vendors are often wrong. I (and another member) provided information and links directly from Canon...you know, the company that actually makes the lens under discussion. You think a vendor web page is more authoritative?

As I said...I'm having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. You should really quit while you're behind: admit your mistake, and move on. I won't be surprised if you're unable to do so.

 

[Larsskv]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

As much as I love my 85LII, one of my complaints about it is that I have gotten dust inside its rear element.

I've never shot the 85L, but from all the postings/reviews I've seen on this, I'd aggregate the high-runner gripes to this list:

• AF = Slow AF (profanity millennial wordplay snap)
• FBW = not for everyone
• Wide open shooting is gorgeous, but it is generally only sharp in the center (the bokeh/'magic' folks love it, but sharpness obsessives long for the 85 offerings from Sigma or Zeiss instead)
• It should be (comprehensively) weather sealed and marketed as such
• IS would be nice

And I believe that's what we'll get in the new lens: an Art/Otus 'sharpness prioritized' big ol' pickle jar with quick and reliable AF. In short: it'll be an 85mm version of the 35L II with IS. (That's a home run lens here, right?)

- A

I expect Canon to address the shortcomings you mention, but I would like to point out that

1. AF isn't that slow unless focusing from near to far, and it works much faster on a 1D body.
2. Edge sharpness when shooting at f1.2 isn't necessary for most uses. It's pretty sharp in the APS-C corners. The point of focus on typical subjects will in most situations be well within the APS-C frame when shooting full frame. From my personal experience, I have seen much sharper edges from the 85 LII, even at f1.2, than what I was expecting. The explanation might be a curved field of focus.
3. In terms of sharpness, I really do think it is plenty sharp enough for portraits, as it is.
4. Weather sealing. Yes, please!
5. IS will be nice, but when shooting with the 85LII, I generally use at least 1/125th or faster shutter speeds for freezing motion, so I will usually be fine without IS anyway.

Another thing that should be addressed is the chromatic aberrations. They can be bad at f1.2, but are mostly gone by f2. I also hope that it will be internally focusing. I don't like it when the lens extends. It makes me afraid of damaging it if I bump it against something.

Even though I love my 85LII, I see myself getting the new 85L. I will be too curious to investigate for myself how they have improved the 85LII, but mostly because I have a weak character. :

Edit: One more thing, I really hope they don't make the new one larger and heavier!

 

[arthurbikemad]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

I have no interest in the 1.4L tbh, well I may if it has the classic look/magic of the 85ii, reason I jumped on the 1.2Lii so close to the release of the new 1.4 is I want f1.2 and that makes me wonder how much longer it will be until the 1.2 sees another upgrade? Sharpness of the 1.2Lii is incredible on my 5D4, shooting for the first time with it yesterday I was super pleased with the results! As for the speed of the 85ii I did not see much improvement on my 1DX2 from the 5D4, it seems very slightly faster from one end to the other but nothing worth loosing 10+MP over for me. The 1.2 is definitely a querky lens for sure but in an odd way it's querks add to the character of the lens, well that's a blag but it makes me feel better...always room for improvements in many ways with the 1.2 I am sure, however I doubt Canon will rush out to produce another 1.2L.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

Another thing that should be addressed is the chromatic aberrations. They can be bad at f1.2, but are mostly gone by f2. I also hope that it will be internally focusing. I don't like it when the lens extends. It makes me afraid of damaging it if I bump it against something.

Agree on the LoCA, hope we see a BR element in this lens.

Using the lens hood will prevent bumps during shooting, the trick is to remember to retract the front element before unmounting the lens. It's a habit for me, now.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood?

Quite so!

 

[Khalai]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood?

Quite so!

Now I'm torn. I can't decide if this whole conversation is rather ridiculous or quite ridiculous

 

[jolyonralph]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

Canon lenses tend to go out of production/sale with a whimper rather than a bang, to the extent that we don't often know whether a lens is still officially available or not.

When there's a direct replacement it usually (but not always! 100-400 for example) means the older lens stops getting produced, but with something like this it's entirely down to the market to decide whether the 85 1.2 continues to get sold, whether a 85 1.2L III ever gets released, or whether it just quietly drops off the list.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

You knew quite well that this was coming, right?

 

[vscd]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood? You have to understand what you write when you write it. Try it. It helps.

@neuroanatomist
The problem seems to be that english is not my native language. I guess you wouldn't be able to talk a few sentences in my language with proper sense...
So, if you want to be arrogant and nitpicking on words then please go on. I meant that the 85L is more sealed than the normal 85mm. Alone from the fact that the rearelement is not moving inside the tubus. The gasket on the bajonet has nothing, I repeat, nothing, todo with the sealing of the lens itself.

You say it's 'quite weathersealed' but this is grammatical nonsense, somewhat like "a little pregnant". Either something is sealed, or it is not sealed.

@jolyonralph
Yes, this quote is funny and often heard. But did you realize that weathersealing has a lot of nuances? The 5D Mark III Body was "weathersealed", now the 5D Mark IV Body is "more weathersealed". Wohoooo... how can this be in your definition? Little bit more pregnant? Wow. Seems to be possible.

Note: My Canon 24-70 2.8L has dust inside, my 85L not. The first is sealed, the second not. Usage is equal.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood? You have to understand what you write when you write it. Try it. It helps.

@neuroanatomist
The problem seems to be that english is not my native language. I guess you wouldn't be able to talk a few sentences in my language with proper sense...
So, if you want to be arrogant and nitpicking on words then please go on.

Let's see...English is not your native language, it is mine, and you accuse me of being unable to read it properly? Then call me arrogant? You're being quite petulant (and to be clear, I mean the primary definition of 'quite').

I meant that the 85L is more sealed than the normal 85mm. Alone from the fact that the rearelement is not moving inside the tubus. The gasket on the bajonet has nothing, I repeat, nothing, todo with the sealing of the lens itself.

Oh, is that what you meant? Interesting that you never mentioned the 85/1.8 until you were called on your mistake regarding the 85L. That's not a language problem, that's a mental problem. Revisionist history is hard when your posts are recorded (but that doesn't stop people from trying, even though it only makes them look silly...did I mention your similarity to the US President?).

They do. 85L II is officialy - according to Canon's own web sites - designed to be moisture and dust resistent. Just look it up. B&H have just taken their description from Canon.

I have looked. No where do I see a statement that the 85/1.2L II offers 'weather- and dust-resistance'. Can you provide a link, or is it also the case for you that you 'don't have the mood to search'? Note that I'm not talking about the 'boilerplate' L-series quality language used across the line – even though that mentions weather- and dust-resistance, it's generic language used even on lenses like the TS-E L's, which are clearly not sealed (as a simple look through the back of the lens will confirm). I mean weather- and dust-resistance listed as a feature/benefit specific to the lens.

In your linked pages, you are referring to exactly what I already rendered moot, namely the boilerplate language describing L-series lenses:
[quote author=Canon.de]
Robuste Konstruktion
Canon Objektive der L-Serie bewähren sich auch beim Einsatz unter harten Bedingungen. Staub- und Feuchtigkeitsabdichtungen sorgen für zusätzlichen Schutz. Zusätzlich sind eine Objektivabdeckung und ein Aufbewahrungsbeutel im Lieferumfang enthalten.

[quote author=Canon Europe]
Robust build quality
Canon L-series lenses are built to withstand regular use in the most testing environments. Weather and dust seals provide added protection. A lens hood and pouch are also included.
[/quote]

Do yourself a favor...go check the pages for the TS-E L-series lenses:

https://www.canon.de/lenses/ts-e-17mm-f-4l-lens/ (English version)
https://www.canon.de/lenses/ts-e-24mm-f-3-5l-ii-lens/ (English version)

Do you see the same boilerplate language on those TS-E pages, as well? Are the L-series TS-E lenses weathersealed? Are they 'quite' weathersealed? Feel free to make that claim...no matter how ridiculous you look already, you can always make it worse. Then go check the page for a lens that is actually weather sealed, like the 24/1.4L II:

https://www.canon.de/lenses/ef-24mm-f-1-4l-ii-usm-lens/ (English version)

See how, right there in the list of highlights/benefits, Canon states, "Staub-/Spritzwasserschutz"? That means the 24/1.4L II has 'dust- and splash-protection' (how's my German?), in other words, it is weathersealed. Unlike the 85/1.2L II.

Once again, you should simply admit that you are wrong and move on. With every reply, you make yourself look more foolish and asinine.

 

[jolyonralph]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

So, turns out there is an official list of canon weathersealed lenses.

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/technology/eflens-technology.html#tecProof

And guess what lens isn't on there?

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

I had no idea that my question, back on page 4, was going to trigger this flamewar.

I regret nothing. 8)

And hey, as a benefit, I learned my 24-70/2.8ii is sealed! I thought the extending barrel was an issue. Now I don't have to worry about it raining at Kona!

 

[Larsskv]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

And hey, as a benefit, I learned my 24-70/2.8ii is sealed! I thought the extending barrel was an issue. Now I don't have to worry about it raining at Kona!

Yes, but how? If the extending barrel is wet when the lens is retracted, it brings water into the lens. Where does the water go? Of course Canon is aware of this, but I just don't have much fate in it, compared to a lens that doesn't extend.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

And hey, as a benefit, I learned my 24-70/2.8ii is sealed! I thought the extending barrel was an issue. Now I don't have to worry about it raining at Kona!

Yes, but how? If the extending barrel is wet when the lens is retracted, it brings water into the lens. Where does the water go? Of course Canon is aware of this, but I just don't have much fate in it, compared to a lens that doesn't extend.

Duh, the seal wipes it off!

This really isn't a difficult engineering problem, I used to deal with seals permenantly submerged and under pressure sealing rotating shafts.

I've used my 24-70 f2.8 MkI in heavy rain many times and not given it a thought, mind you the design of the hood is much better than the MkII and gives much more protection. Indeed that was an important part of my decision not to 'upgrade'.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

And hey, as a benefit, I learned my 24-70/2.8ii is sealed! I thought the extending barrel was an issue. Now I don't have to worry about it raining at Kona!

Yes, but how? If the extending barrel is wet when the lens is retracted, it brings water into the lens. Where does the water go? Of course Canon is aware of this, but I just don't have much fate in it, compared to a lens that doesn't extend.

Duh, the seal wipes it off!

This really isn't a difficult engineering problem, I used to deal with seals permenantly submerged and under pressure sealing rotating shafts.

I've used my 24-70 f2.8 MkI in heavy rain many times and not given it a thought, mind you the design of the hood is much better than the MkII and gives much more protection. Indeed that was an important part of my decision not to 'upgrade'.

Yeah when I read about that feature of the V1 I loved it. No idea why people complained that it extended the "wrong" way. They should all do that!

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

So, turns out there is an official list of canon weathersealed lenses.

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/technology/eflens-technology.html#tecProof

That's a great find, thanks! Will be useful as a reference in the future.

 

[scyrene]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

@neuroanatomist
Can you read properly? quite weathersealed means not weathersealed, but it's better than normal lenses. You make your world as you want it and then have the big mouth and try to be funny. That may work with your kind of guys but not in real life. You have to understand what other people write before you answer. Try it. It helps.

Yes, I can read properly. Can you?

[quote author=Google]
quite kwīt/ adverb
1. to the utmost or most absolute extent or degree; absolutely; completely.
"it's quite out of the question"
synonyms: completely, entirely, totally, wholly, absolutely, utterly, thoroughly, altogether
"two quite different types"
2. to a certain or fairly significant extent or degree; fairly.
"it's quite warm outside"
synonyms: fairly, rather, somewhat, slightly, relatively, comparatively, moderately, reasonably, to a certain extent;

[quote author=Merriam-Webster]
quite adverb \ˈkwīt\
1: wholly, completely
2: to an extreme
3: to a considerable extent
[/quote]

You choose to use a secondary or tertiary definition of the word quite, instead of the primary definition, and expect to be understood? You have to understand what you write when you write it. Try it. It helps.

Oh, and you didn't just state 'quite weathersealed', you also stated, "The body is well sealed." In that context, the primary definition of 'quite' is the logical understanding. Evidently, your logical competence is right up there with your linguistic skills.

Incidentally, even 'quite weathersealed' as in 'to a fairly significant extent' or 'somewhat' is incorrect. As a Canon rep stated, the 85L II has no special gaskets or seals.

As for your B&H link, vendors are often wrong. I (and another member) provided information and links directly from Canon...you know, the company that actually makes the lens under discussion. You think a vendor web page is more authoritative?

As I said...I'm having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. You should really quit while you're behind: admit your mistake, and move on. I won't be surprised if you're unable to do so.
[/quote]

Something I didn't learn until a few years ago: usage of 'quite' differs between US English and UK English, and can cause confusion even between native speakers from the two countries. In America, 'quite good' means really rather good, but over here it more often means moderately good, i.e. British English uses 'quite' as less emphatic compared to American - so it's not quite (ha) fair to say one meaning is primary and another tertiary - it depends where one learned English. The tyranny of tiny differences!

Not that I think vscd is correct in his assertions regarding weathersealing

 

[Khalai]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

'Nuff said ;D

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS & Three More Lenses Coming at the End of August [CR2]

Something I didn't learn until a few years ago: usage of 'quite' differs between US English and UK English, and can cause confusion even between native speakers from the two countries. In America, 'quite good' means really rather good, but over here it more often means moderately good, i.e. British English uses 'quite' as less emphatic compared to American - so it's not quite (ha) fair to say one meaning is primary and another tertiary - it depends where one learned English. The tyranny of tiny differences!

If you prefer, you may consult the Oxford English Dictionary, where searching for words like 'color' and labor' redirects to the proper spellings, namely colour and labour. The OED's first definition of quite is, "To the utmost or most absolute extent or degree; absolutely; completely." So if you feel that 'completely' is not the primary definition of the word 'quite', you may want to contact the OED editors and inform them that one of the 600,000 words in their 'definitive record of the English language' is improperly defined. I'd do it, but I'm sure they'd just ignore an American.