Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]

[PhilippP74]

The 7D is currently positioned in the "prosumer" / enthusiast segment. Could this "testrun" at the Olympics hint at a more "pro" positioning and feature set of the Mark II (the pro APS-C body) or would you just dismiss this as marketing?

 

[RGomezPhotos]

So it won't work with existing CF cards, might as well throw all of my existing CF cards in the garbage if they change it.

I'm selling my collection of thirteen CF cards of 2GB or larger. Sold three and and pre-sold five. The rest I need to look for as they are scattered in the house.

Original plan was to replace them with four 64GB or 128GB cards. I hate keeping track of so many loose items that I do not end up using. Why four CF cards? That makes it one body to one card.

Reading up on Sandisk, Lexar & Canon's involvement with CFast (and further readings on XQD) got me thinking that 2014 could be the year that we will see EOS bodies with SATA-based CFast card slots.

Too many eggs in a single basket? That has been the argument since over a decade ago. Never had a memory card go bad on me but misplacing them is always a problem.

FINALLY someone else says it! Yeah, it can happen. But are they eBay cheapies? Do you sit on them regularly? Are the cards 10 years old?

 

[RGomezPhotos]

I think this is just marketing. This is an APS-C camera and what photographer would chance an important shot being missed by a prototype?

 

[9VIII]

And here I was hoping it would come out before summer. Q3 release may as well be next year, at which point I'm really wondering about the 5D4.
Maybe I should plan on upgrading lenses before bodies.

 

[Drizzt321]

What I want to know is what memory cards will it be using. Will Canon still stick to UDMA 7 CF (167MB/s) or switch to UHS-II SDXC (312MB/s) or CFast 2.0 (600MB/s).

If they're giving it out to pros, it'll be CFast. Or XQD. I haven't really looked at which one is superior, if either one really is. XQD is based on PCI-Express, while CFast is based on SATA. Either way, while they both support extremely high max speeds, those speeds will only be reached by very few cards, if ever. Until we get new technologies past flash memory. It's getting harder and harder to boost flash speeds, especially in such a fairly small & confined space. With current top end cards just starting to hit UDMA7 max speeds, XQD/CFast support is definitely needed on the next generation of pro cameras.

 

[dolina]

If they're giving it out to pros, it'll be CFast. Or XQD. I haven't really looked at which one is superior, if either one really is. XQD is based on PCI-Express, while CFast is based on SATA. Either way, while they both support extremely high max speeds, those speeds will only be reached by very few cards, if ever. Until we get new technologies past flash memory. It's getting harder and harder to boost flash speeds, especially in such a fairly small & confined space. With current top end cards just starting to hit UDMA7 max speeds, XQD/CFast support is definitely needed on the next generation of pro cameras.

No one has max'd out CFast or XQD yet but they've surpassed UDMA 7 CF's 167MB/s limit.

 

[jiphoto]

What I want to know is what memory cards will it be using. Will Canon still stick to UDMA 7 CF (167MB/s) or switch to UHS-II SDXC (312MB/s) or CFast 2.0 (600MB/s).

If they're giving it out to pros, it'll be CFast. Or XQD. I haven't really looked at which one is superior, if either one really is. XQD is based on PCI-Express, while CFast is based on SATA. Either way, while they both support extremely high max speeds, those speeds will only be reached by very few cards, if ever. Until we get new technologies past flash memory. It's getting harder and harder to boost flash speeds, especially in such a fairly small & confined space. With current top end cards just starting to hit UDMA7 max speeds, XQD/CFast support is definitely needed on the next generation of pro cameras.

Don't forget that CFast is Canon's preferred card format that they've been publicly backing - they'd be crazy to suddenly use XQD, especially since Nikon only has one camera that supports XQD so far, but Alexa is already supporting CFast via standard upgrades for most of their cinema cameras.

 

[dolina]

Alternatively Canon could go SDXC like what was done to the 60D and 6D. SDXC Version 4.0 allows for 312 MB/s using additional row of pins..

What I should be my worry now is to make sure the 5 CF cards are sold and I find the other 5 cards that I need to sell.

I really just want to have one memory card per body to keep things tidy.

Don't forget that CFast is Canon's preferred card format that they've been publicly backing - they'd be crazy to suddenly use XQD, especially since Nikon only has one camera that supports XQD so far, but Alexa is already supporting CFast via standard upgrades for most of their cinema cameras.

 

[Drizzt321]

Alternatively Canon could go SDXC like what was done to the 60D and 6D. SDXC Version 4.0 allows for 312 MB/s using additional row of pins..

What I should be my worry now is to make sure the 5 CF cards are sold and I find the other 5 cards that I need to sell.

I really just want to have one memory card per body to keep things tidy.

Don't forget that CFast is Canon's preferred card format that they've been publicly backing - they'd be crazy to suddenly use XQD, especially since Nikon only has one camera that supports XQD so far, but Alexa is already supporting CFast via standard upgrades for most of their cinema cameras.

Ah, didn't know Canon had stated CFast is their preferred.

And no, they won't go any SD format for top end cameras. SD has too many practical limitations for real pro use starting with the tiny size not able to fit in nearly as many NAND packages/dies which means real-world write limits will be a lot lower than CF/CFast/XQD. Plus, it's pretty flimsy compared to CF/CFast/XQD package. Besides the CF pins that is, which is improved/fixed in CFast and XQD.

 

[dolina]

From what I've read Sandisk, Arri, Phase One, Lexar and Sandisk support CFast 2.0.

XQD was developed by Sandisk but not manufactured by them. Lexar and Sony are the sole XQD memory card makers and Nikon D4 the sole camera supporting it. Some months ago BH Photo claimed that Lexar discontinued XQD but Lexar rebukes this.

Only XQD you can buy off BH is from Sony.

CFast is not available on BH as of my writing.

My thoughts are the next 1D, 5D and possibly the 7D will support CFast if they start allowing uncompressed video straight to internal memory card or 4K resolution recording.

CFast would also be required if Canon were to adopt a TLR-like technology to attain higher continuous RAW fps. As I see it memory card read/writes are the main culprit holding back cameras.

XQD and CFast are based on PCIe and SATA technologies. As such are restricted by the same limitations. Like SATA rev 3.0 peaks at 600MB/s and PCIe rev 3.0 peaks at 800MB/s.

Next step up has both CFast and XQD peaking at 1.6GB/s. I think they will be updated once 8K resolution recordings become popular. In say 5, 10 or 15 years from now?

 

[LoneRider]

Amusing thread.

Fir of all, if it is a Q3 release, my vacation at the end of Q2 beginning of Q3 will have to live with the 7D and 50D I currently own, and that sucks.

Secondly, if it is a Q2 announce and Q3 release, prototypes are not a word used at this point. There might be some firmware changes between cameras. But these would be Beta or pre-production cameras.

As far as problems writing to the CF cards, those issues should be long found in regression tests and such. I would hope. I would expect bugs will be a minimum, there will be some. But I would also expect any photographer to have a few 1000, or more exposures on any new camera before they head to the sporting event, no?

Like seriously, who would grab a new camera and the start taking event pictures, unless you absolutely had to??

just say'n.

I have been in production development for a while now, and unless Canon is an absolute broken mess of a large corporation, I would expect there is significantly less risk with than some of y'all think. I have to expect these cameras have already been vibe-table tested with accelerated aging tests, temp testing for both environmental use, but again accelerated aging tests, regressions tests, life tests and so on.

 

[LoneRider]

Wow, just reread my last post, sorry for the bad English. I reviewed it a bit too quickly.

 

[Drizzt321]

From what I've read Sandisk, Arri, Phase One, Lexar and Sandisk support CFast 2.0.

XQD was developed by Sandisk but not manufactured by them. Lexar and Sony are the sole XQD memory card makers and Nikon D4 the sole camera supporting it. Some months ago BH Photo claimed that Lexar discontinued XQD but Lexar rebukes this.

Only XQD you can buy off BH is from Sony.

CFast is not available on BH as of my writing.

My thoughts are the next 1D, 5D and possibly the 7D will support CFast if they start allowing uncompressed video straight to internal memory card or 4K resolution recording.

CFast would also be required if Canon were to adopt a TLR-like technology to attain higher continuous RAW fps. As I see it memory card read/writes are the main culprit holding back cameras.

XQD and CFast are based on PCIe and SATA technologies. As such are restricted by the same limitations. Like SATA rev 3.0 peaks at 600MB/s and PCIe rev 3.0 peaks at 800MB/s.

Next step up has both CFast and XQD peaking at 1.6GB/s. I think they will be updated once 8K resolution recordings become popular. In say 5, 10 or 15 years from now?

I didn't think Canon manufactured memory cards. Maybe rebranded, sure.

Anyway, I thought part of the limitation on FPS was the shutter & mirror. I'd think that on a 1DX they have pretty big memory buffers, yet they can't speed up the shutter. If they actually can get a real global shutter on the next line of sensors, they could really pump things up as they would no longer be reliant on physical mechanisms.

 

[dolina]

Amusing thread.

Fir of all, if it is a Q3 release, my vacation at the end of Q2 beginning of Q3 will have to live with the 7D and 50D I currently own, and that sucks.

Secondly, if it is a Q2 announce and Q3 release, prototypes are not a word used at this point. There might be some firmware changes between cameras. But these would be Beta or pre-production cameras.

As far as problems writing to the CF cards, those issues should be long found in regression tests and such. I would hope. I would expect bugs will be a minimum, there will be some. But I would also expect any photographer to have a few 1000, or more exposures on any new camera before they head to the sporting event, no?

Like seriously, who would grab a new camera and the start taking event pictures, unless you absolutely had to??

just say'n.

I have been in production development for a while now, and unless Canon is an absolute broken mess of a large corporation, I would expect there is significantly less risk with than some of y'all think. I have to expect these cameras have already been vibe-table tested with accelerated aging tests, temp testing for both environmental use, but again accelerated aging tests, regressions tests, life tests and so on.

Often times it is a job requirement imposed by the photoagency or directly with Canon itself.

Any who SATA Express and PCIe 4 (both 1.6GB/s) will come out by 2017 with Intel Skylake.

2017 4K resolution 32-inch iMacs anyone?

 

[dolina]

Canon cameras not memory cards. Unless of course ARRI and Phase Ones also make their own memory cards.

The limitation is indeed the mirror hence Canon going TLR-like.

Or as you mentioned a global shutter would work as well.

1DX benefits from the buffer and UDMA 7 CF cards.

I didn't think Canon manufactured memory cards. Maybe rebranded, sure.

Anyway, I thought part of the limitation on FPS was the shutter & mirror. I'd think that on a 1DX they have pretty big memory buffers, yet they can't speed up the shutter. If they actually can get a real global shutter on the next line of sensors, they could really pump things up as they would no longer be reliant on physical mechanisms.

 

[dolina]

Rereading it appears that SATA Express uses PCI Express to achieve 16Gbit/s throughput.

Perhaps this is why everyone but Sony & Nikon abandoned XQD.

 

[Drizzt321]

Rereading it appears that SATA Express uses PCI Express to achieve 16Gbit/s throughput.

Perhaps this is why everyone but Sony & Nikon abandoned XQD.

Sony probably because they just refuse to give up on any format they can try and lock people into. See mini-disc and memory stick.

Nikon, I don't see how they have 'abandoned' it yet. They came out with a camera that used it, and it's still a production model. If their next pro (D900, D5, whatever) camera comes out that has CFast, then I'll say they've abandoned it. In that case, they'll have abandoned it and backed the wrong horse for a little bit.

 

[garyknrd]

I would love to see it materialize. But, this is getting kinda silly.
Seems like once every two or three weeks this get's thrown out... LOL

 

[hampai]

Its time to get my Fony soon if Canon don't wake up.

 

[Sabaki]

Number one feature I want for the 7D II?

A friggin' release date!