Canon EOS 7D Successors [CR1]

[briansquibb]

More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera? Its unlikely enthusiasts are going about printing bigger than A3. Stop with the megapixels and put the R&D into better noise and DR not trying to cram more photosites on when its not needed.

Ever so right. 18MP is enoug for prosumers. Better ISO, IQ and DR is far more important. 8

Except that Sony and Nikon already offer more megapixels for the prosumer in equivalent bodies.

Heck, the Nikon D3200 has 24MP and is on a par with the 5D Mark II in terms of IQ.

So there's Canon's challenge: deliver a crop camera with IQ equal to that of the 5D Mark II.

Any reviews of the D3200 yet?

 

[Lee Jay]

More megapixels for the 70D.... why do you need more megapixels on a prosumer camera?

Useful for cropping when I'm focal-length or magnification limited.

If more pixels weren't useful for this, teleconverters would also be useless, and they are not. Even our old optics can do well with a 2x TC on an 18MP 1.6-crop sensor, thus indicating that sensor could go to 72MP and still provide benefit even to an old zoom lens (100-400L).

100-400L + 2x on T2i:
http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

 

[AprilForever]

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<strong>The prosumer market up next?



</strong>Now that Canon has addressed the “professional” space with the 5D Mark III, 1D X & 1D C (Yes, I know some want the big megapixel camera), it could be time to turn our attention to the “prosumer” space. We keep hearing bits of information about what’s planned for the segment in the coming months.</p>
<p><strong>The 70D</strong>



The latest I have heard, and spoken about before, is that we’ll see the 70D move up the line. It’ll be specced close to the current 7D, however with a new higher megapixel APS-C sensor.</p>
<p><strong>The 7D X</strong>



The rumor that won’t go away is that the APS-H sensor will return to the Canon lineup and fit between the 70D and 5D Mark III. Is it really possible? Maybe. I don’t think Canon needs more APS-C cameras beyond the Rebel, a 70D and possibly a mirrorless entry.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

I may have to smite you for that line about the APS-C 7D... Oh, wait, we can't smite each other! Now, I must attempt to resort to logic, or at least emotion and rhetoric. ;D :'( 8)

On a serious note, I REALLY want the 7D mk II to be APS-C. If it bloats to APS-H, I will be enraged, though my wrath would be mitigated if they bumped the MP up to around 24ish, to stave off the effects of the lost distance...

Stone writes APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

Exactamundo. Now, let us be rid once and for all of the mad thoughts of bloating the 7D sensor.

 

[briansquibb]

Stone writes APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

The 1D4 is better than the 5DII so perhaps far better is an overstatement?

 

[Dylan777]

APS-H Sensor for 7D X???....wow this must be a dream ;D

 

[Loswr]

First shows 8-15 and the height of the dome and how close the top ot the hood is in height . The filter would be about the same height

Second shows the image at 8mm, clearly show a lot of the inside of the hood - that is where the light would come from. Put a mount there and the visual image would be blinkered

I am guessing a 200mm square filter would be needed

The answer was already provided...

...needed a custom solution for the light leakage...

So, a barrel-mounted or Plamp type holder for a custom fabricated convex glass filter. Should only set you back a few thousand $/£/€... Oh, and while your at it, have someone grind down that hood on the 8-15mm fisheye...

: :-X

 

[briansquibb]

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

We are looking at lifting the internals of the 1D4 and putting them in 5DIII body

16 mps, 10fps, good high iso, good IQ, 1.3 reach, good AF, f/8 AF, metering on AF point etc. This would make a good upgrade for the 7D - I know, I did the 7D to 1D4 upgrade. We know the APS-H is proven at higher mps so upgrades there can be anticipated

APS-C does not match APS-H in anyway and will probably end up in Csc, EVILs etc at the lower end. This trend has already been started by other manufacturers eg NX20. That means that APS-H will become the new entry level sensor.

Look forward to it - APS-H as entry level is mind blowing.

 

[RLPhoto]

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

We are looking at lifting the internals of the 1D4 and putting them in 5DIII body

16 mps, 10fps, good high iso, good IQ, 1.3 reach, good AF, f/8 AF, metering on AF point etc. This would make a good upgrade for the 7D - I know, I did the 7D to 1D4 upgrade. We know the APS-H is proven at higher mps so upgrades there can be anticipated

APS-C does not match APS-H in anyway and will probably end up in Csc, EVILs etc at the lower end. This trend has already been started by other manufacturers eg NX20. That means that APS-H will become the new entry level sensor.

Look forward to it - APS-H as entry level is mind blowing.

FF>>>APS-H>>>APS-C 8)

 

[maxxevv]

Here you are then

First shows 8-15 and the height of the dome and how close the top ot the hood is in height . The filter would be about the same height

Second shows the image at 8mm, clearly show a lot of the inside of the hood - that is where the light would come from. Put a mount there and the visual image would be blinkered

I am guessing a 200mm square filter would be needed - perhaps off a MF

I have no need of a filter so haven't persued it any further

Good grief ... in the context of APS-C and APS-H ... I really thought you were talking about the Sigma 8-16mm !

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/8-16mm-f45-56-dc-hsm-sigma

Which really is the basis of what I was talking about on 'equivalent FOV' ....

 

[BXL]

The only reason I could see Canon getting serious about a successor to the 7D is if Nikon bring out a D400 that beats whatever the 70D has to offer in a way that requires a new camera from Canon.

Well... Nikon's counterpart of the 70D would be the rumored D7100.

If the rumor is true 7D2 will be a market killer and no need for a entry lvl FF body.

It would cannibalize the sales of the 1D X, thus I don't believe that this rumor comes true.

 

[briansquibb]

...
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
...

NO!

APS-H was made because Canon could not produce a full frame sensor cost effectively at the time the 1D series cameras were being designed and delivered.

APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H camerassuch as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

 

[nicku]

Stone writes APS-H is far better than APS-C . . .
That maybe, but the FF is far better than the APS-H.

And said before but . . .
Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?
And the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.
And the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.
And the IQ and DR of the FF and the APS-C talks for not making a APS-H sensor.
So sorry guys.

Why should Canon produce a APS-H sensor?
Because will be a unique camera on the market without a direct competitor and because the IQ and extra reach (1.3 crop)

The R&D department needs af larger budget and will there be sold enough APS-H cameras?

The technology and knowhow to produce APS-H allready exists, Considering the actual 7D sales definitely worth investing.

the APS-H camera will canibalize from 1DX, which is not that expensive any more.

The IQ of the 7D2 (if the rumor is true) wil definitely not canibalize the 1Dx because the IQ. the APS-H sensor will have a lower IQ, lower fps, AF etc...

the APS-H camera in the "old days" was made for getting more fps than the FF camera could achieve. Now you have 14 fps, the finest of ISO etc. So why bother about the APS-H.

They aiming to the budget semipro wildlife/sports photographers and to 1Dx users (as a Backup camera).

 

[c.d.embrey]

PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C) has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???

 

[Rockets95]

I know I am showing my ignorance, but I'll ask anyway. APS-H (1.3) - Would it support EF-S? I would assume not! I only own one (10-22mm).

It can work from about 14~15mm onwards supposedly. (Someone tried with a 1DMkIII some time ago, maybe you can try a search on it ..)

But if such a camera does come about, i would be in Canon's best interest to have a crop-compatibility mode that toggles between 1.6x and 1.3x crop. This would be a great way to make everyone happy ... and ensure that it becomes a great selling camera ! ;D

Isn't that what Nikon does?

 

[dlleno]

APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H cameras such as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

dude nice history. so Kodak is out of the picture now entirely since 2001, and Canon fully owns and produces their own sensors?

 

[briansquibb]

APS-H was designed and made by Kodak first. The Kodak sensor was then bought by Canon for the first 'Canon' APS-H cameras such as the D6000. Canon then designed their own and put it in the 1D in 2001. The rest of the camera was based on the IV film camera - so it got the 45 point AF system

- 8 fps continuous shooting
- Continuous shooting burst up to a maximum of 21 shots

Kodak also designed the first APS-C 1.6 crop sensor for Canon (such as the D2000)

Perhaps we can now stop propegating the myths about why Canon 'designed' APS-H for maximum profit - it just bought them off the shelf like Nikon do with Sony sensors.

dude nice history. so Kodak is out of the picture now entirely since 2001, and Canon fully owns and produces their own sensors?

Yes

It is also worth noting that the Sony and Nikon APS-C are 1.5 crop so are larger than the Canon sensors

 

[Loswr]

PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C) has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???

Canon has a much larger (and growing) dSLR market share, compared to Nikon. So...WTF is wrong with Canon??? Nothing. Rather, WTF is wrong with Nikon?!?

Just giving you the shareholder perspective, which for a publicly-held company is the most important consideration.

 

[maxxevv]

PROSUMER is just a cynical marketing ploy to sell slightly upgraded Rebels for more money. By calling these cameras prosumer they make the buyers feel special.

Nikon doesn't sell prosumer cameras, just consumer and pro. The Nikon D300S DX (APS-C) has the same focusing and metering as the FX (Full Frame) D3s. While neither the POS 60D or the EOS 7D have pro level focusing or metering. WTF is wrong with Canon ???

You read these specs from Nikon too literally.

Have you ever actually compared these Nikon cameras side by side for their so called 'pro grade' AF and metering?? Go do that with the same glass side by side ... You will be "amazed" by the differences...

 

[Gcon]

There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

APS-H is D.E.A.D. It was only there for faster frame rates compared to FF. It was a compromise. Canon solved this with the 1DX. The whole point of a crop-sensor lens in a semi-pro body like 7D is just that - the crop factor! Otherwise you'd just get the 5DIII. My left nut to say that APS-H will never ever see the light of day ever again in a new body - it makes absolutely zero sense.

I was initially thinking that 60D and 7D would merge. I've changed my mind. The price gap would be too great going from Rebel/650D to 7D. That middle ground needs to be filled to stave off competition from the impressive Nikon D7000. Canon won't give up that fight.

There will be a 70D and 7DII. Both will be 24MP. There will be enough feature differences to justify the price diff - weather sealing, frame rate (dual digic vs single), AF points, magnesium body.

The Canon no-frills full frame camera - this one is hard to predict! They need to be competitive with Nikon yet not Canibalise 5DIII sales the way the 5DII cannibalised 1Ds sales several years ago. I definitely think is coming though - the 5DII is dated and won't work with new accessories. It needs a direct replacement at that price point. Will it be a megapixel monster? I doubt it but we shall see.

 

[maxxevv]

There's no way the 7D replacement will not accept APS-C lenses. So no sensor bloat - that's just silly.

What if it could and was 1.3X crop as well ??