Canon is gearing up to finally release a high megapixel camera with 100+ megapixels [CR3]

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
352
@LogicExtremist and @neuroanatomist, I think you are missing the point. Clients want the image editable for any medium and format. Anything from a low res web header to the side of a building. The photographer isn’t going to be making those changes, the graphic designer is. So you have to deliver an image that has maximum flexibility. Besides, if the client expects high res images that’s what you have to deliver whether or not you agree.
What would be higher than a 45MB x 5 pano image, that's a whopping 225MB that can be cropped anywhere for convenience, with the correct aspect ratio too.
I get your point, yeah, huge MP is super convenient for cropping in a single shot, but conversely its painful for handling bulk images though. Which is probably why studio photographers take ages to set up and stage a few shots with tethered cameras using high MP cameras, whereas sports photographers who shoot large numbers of images use more manageable file sizes. Horses for courses, of course!

Hmmm, got me thinking, with enough mega (giga?) pixels, I could shoot landscapes from the next state, saving on travel. Just crop out a tiny square, toss 95% of the pixels, and get a perfectly printable image! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

koenkooi

CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
3,574
4,110
The Netherlands
Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about our type of work, but I'm curious, couldn't you shoot this as a portrait image like the first or second photo, at maximum resolution, then take shots of the periphery to either side with the same perspective and stitch them together to construct a panoramic shot to look like the lower image? My assumption is that way, your close-up doesn't have less detail than the widest image where the subject is much smaller. Since you're going wider in the photos but not higher, you lose so much in the first crop, in the most detailed photo, the majority of the image (around 75%?) is being cropped out in terms of height, then it's a like a crop of a crop in the other photos, so I thought I'd ask!
Isn’t that called the Brenizer method? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenizer_Method
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
352
Isn’t that called the Brenizer method? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenizer_Method
Thanks for sharing that, I looked it up and learned something new! :) - "The Brenizer method increases the effective sensor size of the camera, simulating the characteristics of large format photography". Honestly, I didn't know it was a thing, I just came up with the idea after reading through the problem of getting a long, wide photo with a person in it. I didn't think about it long nough to consider the possibility of being able to get a shallow depth of field, which when done at a wide angle imitates the qualities of a large format article. Cool!
 
Upvote 0
Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about our type of work, but I'm curious, couldn't you shoot this as a portrait image like the first or second photo, at maximum resolution, then take shots of the periphery to either side with the same perspective and stitch them together to construct a panoramic shot to look like the lower image? My assumption is that way, your close-up doesn't have less detail than the widest image where the subject is much smaller. Since you're going wider in the photos but not higher, you lose so much in the first crop, in the most detailed photo, the majority of the image (around 75%?) is being cropped out in terms of height, then it's a like a crop of a crop in the other photos, so I thought I'd ask!
Unfortunately, the answer is no. :)

On this photo shoot i took thousands (yes, thousands!) of photos, not knowing what their final use will be.
I work with the camera that is handheld, I'm moving around the model and taking each shot from a different angle, so the stitching would not work because of the ever changing perspective.




With that example, it seems that it would be relatively easy to extend the background in any direction or magnitude desired using Photoshop.

I was thinking that too, I've done that before when I wanted more width in photos I shot in portrait.

I was talking about the principle, hoping that you would use your imagination. :)

Ok, maybe the last example was't the best, since the body position is vertical, so here is another one with the more horizontal body pose.
If its not wide enough, please imagine that the client wanted model's arms wide spread :) :

Sport-Best-Odds-Set.jpg




Imagine that during a big photoshoot, that can take 10-12 hours straight, for each model's pose I have to take additional photos of model's arms and hands that might be needed for horizontal formats! :D ...And to tell the client that their designers must Photoshop everything together. :)


Yes, many years ago, I was doing the same type of work with my 16.7 MP 1Ds MkII.

Bu then I had to take three or four times more photos, with all the possible crops in camera.
The vertical full body shot, the horizontal half body shot with model's arms spread, the upper body or face close up, etc, etc.

It was taking much more time, the models worked much harder, since they had to repeat the poses, again and again, for each possible crop.
At some point they would get exausted, which could show on the photos, which is not good.

But these days are long gone, and the clients are now EXPECTING the files that could be cropped to death.

Trust me, it is MUCH easier to use the highest MP camera available for this type of work. :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
352
Unfortunately, the answer is no. :)

On this photo shoot i took thousands (yes, thousands!) of photos, not knowing what their final use will be.
I work with the camera that is handheld, I'm moving around the model and taking each shot from a different angle, so the stitching would not work because of the ever changing perspective.








I was talking about the principle, hoping that you would use your imagination. :)

Ok, maybe the last example was't the best, since the body position is vertical, so here is another one with the more horizontal body pose.
If its not wide enough, please imagine that the client wanted model's arms wide spread :) :

View attachment 204336




Imagine that during a big photoshoot, that can take 10-12 hours straight, for each model's pose I have to take additional photos of model's arms and hands that might be needed for horizontal formats! :D ...And to tell the client that their designers must Photoshop everything together. :)


Yes, many years ago, I was doing the same type of work with my 16.7 MP 1Ds MkII.

Bu then I had to take three or four times more photos, with all the possible crops in camera.
The vertical full body shot, the horizontal half body shot with model's arms spread, the upper body or face close up, etc, etc.

It was taking much more time, the models worked much harder, since they had to repeat the poses, again and again, for each possible crop.
At some point they would get exausted, which could show on the photos, which is not good.

But these days are long gone, and the clients are now EXPECTING the files that could be cropped to death.

Trust me, it is MUCH easier to use the highest MP camera available for this type of work. :)
Thanks, this example is much better to explain the problem. Your closest crop here is about 25-30% of the width of the final image, which you're slicing it thin at around 25% of the full field of view. A quarter of 45MP is a tad over 11MP left to work with, and you know if that works for your needs. I guess the catch is not knowing the final use of the image, which makes things more challenging.

Just a question, isn't this what the sort of application for a high MP medium format cameras such as the 100MP Fujifilm GFX 100S?
In the article https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...-100-review-is-live-and-this-is-what-we-think they state that "the GFX 100 has a higher resolving power even than our test chart, which maxes out at 4,000 line widths/picture height! This is normally plenty for even the best digital cameras, but not this time. So we adapted our test process using precise distance and scale measurements to allow for this increased resolution. The results were clear and conclusive. With this new test method, the GFX 100 yielded a maximum resolution of 62 lw/ph, way beyond any smaller format model."

They also confirm what you've stated:

"So who needs 100 megapixels?

Not the average photographer, that’s for sure. But if your work is for high-end commercial clients who want to be able to use your images at the largest possible sizes, it could make a difference. In this market, clients often take a keen interest in the hardware uses, often stipulating minimum specifications. Even if you know a shot doesn’t need 100 million pixels, if the client knows it’s possible and decides they want it, that’s what you’ve got to do!"

In that article, they also explain there's no such thing as a free lunch, as high MP bodies are less forgiving.

"The GFX 100 is an unforgiving camera. It will magnify your resolution, but it will also magnify your errors. We first saw this with the Nikon D800, which brought ground-breaking 36-megapixel resolution in its day, and we still see it today with its even higher-resolution successors."

Now, if a high MP medium format is unforgiving, with a tiny movement shifting the light across many more pixels due to the higher pixel density, wouldn't the issue be worse on a smaller full-frame sensor? Especially handheld? With a Canon 100MP FF, might we be trying to use a FF camera to do the job of a MF camera? The right tool for the job?

To keep things in perspective, we need to consider that If Canon develops a 100MP camera, it will be FF and not MF simply because Canon makes FF cameras, not because FF is the optimum solution at that resolution! :oops:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
Since I'm very careful with my technique and I work in controlled enviroment of my studio, I will have no problem with a 100+ MP FF camera.
I choose to stay with Canon because of the lenses, AF, and camera formfactor.

Even if you know a shot doesn’t need 100 million pixels, if the client knows it’s possible and decides they want it, that’s what you’ve got to do!"
Exactly!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0
Now, if a high MP medium format is unforgiving, with a tiny movement shifting the light across many more pixels due to the higher pixel density, wouldn't the issue be worse on a smaller full-frame sensor? Especially handheld? With a Canon 100MP FF, might we be trying to use a FF camera to do the job of a MF camera? The right tool for the job?

Because I started doing more of the sport themed photoshoots in my studio, now I'm using studio flashes with a very short flash duration, mostly around 1/4000 sec, so no problems with the movements! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

LogicExtremist

Lux pictor
Sep 26, 2021
501
352
Because I started doing more of the sport themed photoshoots in my studio, now I'm using studio flashes with a very short flash duration, mostly around 1/4000 sec, so no problems with the movements! :)
Thanks for explaining, studio with flash lighting is a very controlled environment that allows for very fast shutter speeds. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
Thanks for explaining, studio with flash lighting is a very controlled environment that allows for very fast shutter speeds. :)

Quite the contrary. It allows for very pedestrian shutter durations (i.e. slow "shutter speeds") because the duration of the flash, not the duration of the shutter, is what determines exposure duration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
Even if you think bigger is better, 120mp might be the equivalent of the Tijuana donkey.

400% crops and viewing billboards for detail 5' away would be a good use. When is enough, enough?
In an argument for a HiRez sensor, you can't always frame exactly like you'd want, and being able to significantly crop the image allows you to fix or improve an image that still has excellent sharpness. If you shoot professionally, not having a keeper is a bigger deal than an amateur shooter.
 
Upvote 0

TAF

CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
491
158
Even if you think bigger is better, 120mp might be the equivalent of the Tijuana donkey.

400% crops and viewing billboards for detail 5' away would be a good use. When is enough, enough?

When? When we exceed the resolution of the available lenses.

Until then, bring it on.

Of course, I would expect Canon to provide appropriate lenses to go with it. So hopefully, they won't ever run off the end, and will be able to keep taking our money.

I want what I'll call the R5LL, using their amazing 4 million ISO sensor technology. Now that would be useful in my applications.
 
Upvote 0

shadow

M50
Sep 20, 2022
107
31
Obviously weather sealing is somewhat difficult to quantify independently, until you realize you don't have enough of it.
Curious why with $3000-$5000. products that Canon doesn't use the IP standards? I know the below standards are somewhat vague, yeah they are not engineering definitive but some other ISO environmental standard if it exists. I own cheap 5mp low light security cameras that get blasted with pouring rain that are rated and no ingress failures yet, assuming they truly are tested to receive and IP64 or 65.

Heard anecdotal stories of Canon cameras dropped into water and surviving but only specs seem to be OM systems, and something like the Olympus Tough.

 
Upvote 0

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,383
1,064
Davidson, NC
When Black Friday prices were announced, I ordered a Fujifilm GFX 100S and the 35–70mm zoom that is the kit lens for another model. Including Payboo’s sales tax rebate, I saved over $1,400. (If I save any more money, I’ll be broke at that rate.) They came yesterday. There is a battery charging issue, so with the in-camera charging I can’t tell whether the battery is bad or the camera’s charging system is bad, or what. (I’m told to set up a video call to troubleshoot.) I plugged the camera into my iPad charger over night and got most of a charge, so I was able to go out this afternoon and take some photos.

I still don’t have any real use case for 102 MP. (I’m not buying a bigger printer nor a bigger house to have enough wall space to hang the pictures.) But the pictures are really impressive. It is too late for much fall color here, and too early for bleak wintery scenes, and I didn’t drive to a scenic location, mostly just shooting some maples that still have leaves. Pixel peeping at 400% on my Mac (really 2X) shows impressive resolution. I cropped down to 1% of a picture and sent the 100% crop to friends to let them know I got the camera. I think I’ll be really happy with the camera and pleasantly surprised with the kit lens, if we can get the battery issue solved. It will take me a while to get used to the menus and dials and figure out what settings I want.. I’ve used Canon cameras since 1970. When it is in stock, I plan to get the 20–35mm zoom. For purposes other than landscapes, I will mostly still use my 6D2. Maybe some day I will get the adaptor for my EF lenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,383
1,064
Davidson, NC
As for concern about camera movement at that resolution, my limited experience suggests that the IBIS works really well. It was too windy to shoot the trees at slower shutter speeds and get sharp results, so I had just done some handheld shots this rainy morning looking through the glass in the back door. I could not detect any ill effect from camera movement. The door glass surely didn’t do sharpness any favors.
 
Upvote 0

shadow

M50
Sep 20, 2022
107
31
I still don’t have any real use case for 102 MP.
I see complete buses wrapped up in some removable wrap like a moving billboard so there you go, that might be an application! Nice high end camera, and saving $1400. wow. Fujinon lenses look like pretty well perceived also. I think back buying a new Toyota Tercel for my wife for $5000. times have inflated. Too bad the sales volume isn't higher otherwise it would be $2500. I recall a Hasselblad seminar I went to years ago and the medium format was amazing, presentation too. But just a curiosity never bought or could justify spending that much. Enjoy your early Christmas present.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,383
1,064
Davidson, NC
The B&H guy said to return the camera for a replacement. Both he and the email I got from Fuji said the hissing and gurgling noises were enough to decide that something is defective. (I’m reminded of Bill Murray’s line about a demon-possessed refrigerator, “Generally, you don’t see that kind of behavior in a major appliance.”) So I boxed the camera et. al. up and dropped it off this afternoon. I kept the lens of course. Here is the pixel-peeping crop of a shot from yesterday:

DSCF0050.jpg

Note the detail in the brown leaf near the center toward the top. This crop is just over 1% of the total image.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

shadow

M50
Sep 20, 2022
107
31
The B&H guy said to return the camera for a replacement. Both he and the email I got from Fuji said the hissing and gurgling noises were enough to decide that something is defective. (I’m reminded of Bill Murray’s line about a demon-possessed refrigerator, “Generally, you don’t see that kind of behavior in a major appliance.”) So I boxed the camera et. al. up and dropped it off this afternoon. I kept the lens of course. Here is the pixel-peeping crop of a shot from yesterday:

View attachment 206536

Note the detail in the brown leaf near the center toward the top. This crop is just over 1% of the total image.
This is certainly finely detailed. So this is a 1 megapixel cropped shot? of the 102 of entire sensor, give or take a few I'd assume. Not sure if these sensors are actually larger than 100, say the overall size is really like 120 and the outer perimeter isn't used actually come think of it the lens projection circle fits inside the rectangular sensor, so even less pixels are used. Amazing to get this rgb density really it is.

That sucks about sending it back that fast, at least it was gurgling and not the sound of a paper shredder.

"Multi-shot 400MP mode for static subjects" what is this feature? I just was looking at it on a spec sheet. Some sort of lateral shift of adjacent pixel clusters electronically to achieve more density? Like a frame offset up, down, left and right?
 
Upvote 0