Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]

[jouster]

Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.

Yes, because that was always such a big issue and no-one ever bought any Canon camera due to their low ISO dynamic range being completely inadequate. I mean, rumor has it that once, in Tibet (or was it San Francisco?), there was a philosopher who preached that it was all about the man taking the photo, not the equipment, and also devised a system for exposing a photo based on a 10EV system that would work for pretty much everything but, while the man achieved a relative degree of success, his theories were dismissed and proved to be inaccurate by the highly-trained interned trolls.

Last but not least, from what I heard, Nikon can't get any customers for the D800 since medium format cameras, costing only 20 times as much, have greater DR at the same low ISO - and everybody knows that you only need to shoot at low ISO's, and no one ever complained that the image quality at higher ISO is inadequate, since no one ever shoots at higher ISOs.

In conclusion, I whole-heartedly agree with your perspective.

+ 10EV for "interned trolls"...

I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...

If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?

Hmmmm....I hope so, and can't think of any reason we wouldn't. A high-resolution APS-C (or a *much* denser full frame sensor, of course, but that seems a ways away) is desirable to me for astro-imaging.

I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2. It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.

I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.

What specialized shots would those be? Just curious. I take my SLR when traveling because (a) I want the full functionality it offers; and (b) it really ain't that big. With a couple of primes - say 85mm and something wider - it fits easily in my briefcase.

 

[dr croubie]

I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.

What specialized shots would those be? Just curious. I take my SLR when traveling because (a) I want the full functionality it offers; and (b) it really ain't that big. With a couple of primes - say 85mm and something wider - it fits easily in my briefcase.

I'm not sure really, tbh. For now, at least, dslrs offer much faster and better phase-detect AF, so the 7D stays for sports.
In really low light, I trust my own eyes (and my katzeye) better than waiting for live-view to update, the back screen can be a bit jelly sometimes (which I hear is a real problem with Sonys, of course having never used one myself).
And I've just been taking pics of the 'supermoon' tonight, maybe it's a problem with the 7D, but taking a wide-angle shot and trying to MF on 10x live-view is impossible, the screen amped up the gain because most of the scene was black, it blew-out the moon, impossible to focus on a bright white blob. So I had to use my katz-eye viewfinder again for that. (but then after a while I though about focussing on a dimmer star instead).

For most other purposes IFF the lenses were of the same quality (hopefully smaller size), iff the battery lasted just as long, iff I could get all the other things I like about dslrs (accessories, TC80, RC6, speedlites, flash-sync plug, +/- EV bracketing, (at least) 3 custom modes, IS), iff (and when) the AF gets fast enough to rival a 7D, iff it was in a body size/shape I could carry around all day (frankly, my 7D and 70-300L is a very easy combo to hike with), and iff it did all this for a reasonable price with at least an aps-c or bigger sensor, then i'd certainly love a mirrorless.

 

[JoeDavid]

I don't think there's any way that Canon will release a mirrorless that is FF. If they did they would charge way too much for it... If I had my wishes I'd like to see one with the APS-C or, better yet, APS-H sensor size. That 4/3 proportioned (but larger than 4/3 standard format) sensor in the G1 X is just about the craziest thing they have ever done. I know there was a lot of hype about the G1 X and that the image quality was quite good but I found it interesting that Best Buy listed it for a couple of months before it was release and then deleted it from their site once it actually started shipping. Sort of makes you wonder about the mass market appeal of the thing. My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

 

[Neeneko]

My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

This seems likely.
When companies are more concerned about not cannibalizing their own departments then with the overall health of the company, they are getting ready to have a decline. At the moment it feels like the bulk of Canon's new offerings are designed to not impact the sales of other departments, which has produced a loop of lackluster products that are pretty much designed to not be competitive.

Question is, will they get their act together before another company steals significant share from them? Will they go the Nikon route and stay relevent but smaller, eventually improving again.. or Kodak's route of... well.. Kodak is a complex story....

 

[ecka]

I don't think there's any way that Canon will release a mirrorless that is FF. If they did they would charge way too much for it... If I had my wishes I'd like to see one with the APS-C or, better yet, APS-H sensor size. That 4/3 proportioned (but larger than 4/3 standard format) sensor in the G1 X is just about the craziest thing they have ever done. I know there was a lot of hype about the G1 X and that the image quality was quite good but I found it interesting that Best Buy listed it for a couple of months before it was release and then deleted it from their site once it actually started shipping. Sort of makes you wonder about the mass market appeal of the thing. My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.

 

[ecka]

My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

This seems likely.
When companies are more concerned about not cannibalizing their own departments then with the overall health of the company, they are getting ready to have a decline. At the moment it feels like the bulk of Canon's new offerings are designed to not impact the sales of other departments, which has produced a loop of lackluster products that are pretty much designed to not be competitive.

Question is, will they get their act together before another company steals significant share from them? Will they go the Nikon route and stay relevent but smaller, eventually improving again.. or Kodak's route of... well.. Kodak is a complex story....

10 years from now we'll have threads like "What is Kodak? "
;D

 

[moreorless]

When companies are more concerned about not cannibalizing their own departments then with the overall health of the company, they are getting ready to have a decline. At the moment it feels like the bulk of Canon's new offerings are designed to not impact the sales of other departments, which has produced a loop of lackluster products that are pretty much designed to not be competitive.

Question is, will they get their act together before another company steals significant share from them? Will they go the Nikon route and stay relevent but smaller, eventually improving again.. or Kodak's route of... well.. Kodak is a complex story....

Theres a difference between this and people on the net becoming upset because the reality didnt live up to their personal hype of a product that delivered everything they desire at a knockdown price.

If anything I'd say just the reverse is true of the 1DX and 5D mk3, there actually cameras that do step on each others toes far more than had been expected with the latters improved AF and FPS. The disapointement for many has been that we havent thus far seen a FF DSLR that offers greater resolution.

 

[Neeneko]

Theres a difference between this and people on the net becoming upset because the reality didnt live up to their personal hype of a product that delivered everything they desire at a knockdown price.

Within the current context I was more referring to how Canon will likely approach the mirrorless market given their past statements. Though for the 5D3 and 1DX it could be argued that they are going through some hoops to not step on their various video offerings. On the other hand their various video lines seem to be eating each other......

 

[c.d.embrey]

My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

One of Steve Jobs's business rules was to never be afraid of cannibalizing yourself. "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will," http://yastrow.com/nlarchive/2011/cannibalize-yourself-12-20-11.html

The DSLR market is flat, but growth is occurring in the in the mirrorless market -- so canon needs to go there. But not with their typical "no-cannibalizing-allowed" attitude. Lets hope they get it right, 'cause if they don't someone will eat their lunch.

 

[moreorless]

If anything I'd say just the reverse is true of the 1DX and 5D mk3, there actually cameras that do step on each others toes far more than had been expected with the latters improved AF and FPS. The disapointement for many has been that we havent thus far seen a FF DSLR that offers greater resolution.

Except that one has twice the fps of the other, an even better AF system and not to forget gigabit ethernet.

Is that a product of Canon crippling a product to protect the market of another though? the 5D mk3 offers a better combination of AF and FPS than any other FF DSLR in the same price/size range has done. The 1D line on the other hand has remained competitive by moving to FF and upping its FPS to 12 rather than depending on lower level bodies being crippled.

Canon's problem seems to be that Nikon/Sony are targeting the high resolution market and they have so far not released a rival product.

 

[JoeDavid]

And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.

I shoot FF most of the time but I still enjoy shooting with my 1DM4 which is, of course, APS-H. In a mirrorless body I'll take the largest sensor Canon is willing to put into it and, yes, I do shoot with L glass most of the time. I'd be quite happy with a 1.3x sensor mirrorless body to use with the 14/2.8L, 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L... you get the idea. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a mirrorless that is FF but I don't think Canon will produce one. I don't really think they'll use APS-H either, so it will end up being something that I may buy as a backup for traveling light but not as my primary camera...

 

[ecka]

And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.

I shoot FF most of the time but I still enjoy shooting with my 1DM4 which is, of course, APS-H. In a mirrorless body I'll take the largest sensor Canon is willing to put into it and, yes, I do shoot with L glass most of the time. I'd be quite happy with a 1.3x sensor mirrorless body to use with the 14/2.8L, 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L... you get the idea. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a mirrorless that is FF but I don't think Canon will produce one. I don't really think they'll use APS-H either, so it will end up being something that I may buy as a backup for traveling light but not as my primary camera...

Nice L-prime collection . However, those are pretty big and heavy lenses (expensive too) and I think that 5D3 is a better match considering the whole system size. That's why I would like to use non-L and manual primes on FF mirrorless. I just hope that it would cost less than $2000 ($1999? )

 

[Dylan777]

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<strong>It’s been a while



</strong>Talk of a Canon mirrorless system has been pretty quiet the last few months, though there is a general assumption we’ll see one announced sometime in 2012.</p>
<p>The latest bits of information that has floated my way are below.</p>
<ul>
<li>Two Cameras</li>
<li>G1 X Sensor Size</li>
<li>APS-C a possibility in one camera</li>
<li>14 & 24 megapixels</li>
<li>EF compatibility, but not EF mount.</li>
<li>EVF on one camera</li>
<li>3-5 Lenses announced at launch.</li>
</ul>
<p>I suspect specifications for the new cameras have yet to be finalized and this sort of information will evolve over time.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

I'll take one with APS-C sensor size.

 

[Rocky]

Until Canon can solve theslow AF problem, The format of the sensor will be a mute point. In order to keep the size small APS-H sensor is a good compromise. Canon will come up a set of new lens. Therefore wide angle lens should be readily available,

 

[Rocky]

Until Canon can solve theslow AF problem, The format of the sensor will be a mute point. In order to keep the size small APS-H sensor is a good compromise. Canon will come up a set of new lens. Therefore wide angle lens should be readily available,

Nikon have already solved that problem in the J1/V1 with phase detect auto focus using the live sensor.

Nikon have it does not meanCanon can use it. Nikon may not let anyone use it. It is their trump card for mirrorless.