Canon officially announces the EOS 90D and EOS M6 Mark II

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
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www.mgordoncommunications.com
...but they did suggest that the M6II will replace the M6 and the M5, at least in speaking to reviewers...

I'm ignorant regarding the M line, but this surprises me more than the (presumed) elimination of the 7D. I would have thought that the model that did not have an integrated viewfinder would be the one to drop. But, then again, maybe the majority of people buying M bodies are cell phone upgraders who are used to composing and shooting pictures on a screen, while only old guys like me insist on a viewfinder.
 
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amorse

EOS R
Jan 26, 2017
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I'm ignorant regarding the M line, but this surprises me more than the (presumed) elimination of the 7D. I would have thought that the model that did not have an integrated viewfinder would be the one to drop. But, then again, maybe the majority of people buying M bodies are cell phone upgraders who are used to composing and shooting pictures on a screen, while only old guys like me insist on a viewfinder.
Yea, it's surprising to me too to be honest. With that said, I was always more interested in the 6 than the 5 just to make it smaller. I do most of my shooting using live view on a tripod, and adding an M6II as an ultralight balance between image quality and size/weight has some value to me. I think there is a niche there, but I would have thought there was a niche for the M5 too. Maybe the vision is that the M5 is replaced with an R mount APS-C equivalent for a 7D series - i.e. replacing both the M5 and 7Dii. That would make some sense in my mind with the headway they appear to be making on mirrorless focusing.
 

Shutterbug

I'm New Here
Apr 20, 2019
22
21
Why is it that the less you know about video, the more sure you are what video features other people do/don't need? The fact that you don't understand the difference between 24, 25 and 30 FPS doesn't mean there isn't a difference. I guarantee that Canon knows the difference and removing 24 FPS 4K from their low cost offerings is not just an oversight.
Preach! :D "Oh 25 is so close to 24, just use that?" what are people saying.

ETA: Many still photographers still need video but we're not about to buy a C series camera for it. Many loyal fans will be pushed to other brands by none other but Canon themselves. Many local stringers are getting annoyed with the wait. The Nikon dudes are sort of happy(er). 4 switched to Sony, 1 to Fuji. We need dual card slots for work on the main camera (and no, no one is upgrading to the 1dx2 or 3 when it comes out). We need PC sync. We need 24 to work in groups when the video editor says we need to shoot in 24.
 
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Scenes

Filmmaker
Jun 12, 2014
70
52
UK
How does it affect it to convert to true 24p?

It doesn’t really work like that unfortunately. They equivalent would be - it’s not 62 megapixels and me saying just blow it up to that? Sure, you can but it’s a kludgy work around and defeats the object of why you want that feature.
 

jvillain

EOS RP
Sep 29, 2018
289
234
And 25, just a menu setting away. Seriously, you people got to have pretty professional needs if that’s not close enough to 24, and in that case you should probably acquire a professional camera.
Maybe you should try doing a movie work flow then you would start to understand. 25 doesn't run on North American TVs so you have to convert to 24, what happens to the audio now that you are slowing the movie down? How about the picture quality? Going from 25 -> 24 means you ar clocking it out slower changing the lenght of the clip, every frame has to be intereted or you drop a frame causeing glitches. What if I go on a weekend trip with a friend and that person is shooting 24 and we want to use footage from both cameras? Now we have a new step in the work flow that takes effort, disk space and time to render. 24 is THE North Americn standard which the entire industry has consolidated around for close to 100 years, it makes co-operating with others so much easier.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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Solid no buy for anybody serious about video without 23.976fps. Canon is out of their mind.
Prior cameras had it, this one doesn't (maybe, still seems to be some debate). Logically, it was a definitive decision made by Canon. It seems pretty unlikely that they made that decision because they're malicious, crazy, or stupid.

You might consider that while in your personal reality 23.976fps equates to being 'serious about video', the majority of camera buyers do not live in your personal reality.
 

Scenes

Filmmaker
Jun 12, 2014
70
52
UK
Ordered a 90D body as soon as I woke up and saw the release. Great it’s the same 80D launch price of $1200 in the US but sadly here in the UK it’s jumped 21% from the 80D launch of £1000 to £1209.

Watching hands on videos all afternoon one thing I keep seeing mentioned but not really dived into is the ‘better quality’ 4K video when cropped (pixel binning v over sampling?) and the electronic image stabilisation for movie shooting.
 

jvillain

EOS RP
Sep 29, 2018
289
234
In practice, you don't right now, as Adobe's DNG Converter almost certainly doesn't support 90D RAWs yet.
90D uses CR3 files for RAW the same as the EOS R. I have to use DNG converter in order to be able to use RAW files from the EOS R so files from the 90D should work after being passed through DNG converter assuming your photo editor supports DNG.. But it addds another anoying step to the work flow and in my case means I have to keep a windows VM spun up so I can use DNG converter.

It took over a year for the open source world to reverse engineer the file format but they finally did it. All Canon did by not just publishing the spec for the file format was tick off a lot of their customers. But maybe Canon was hoping they would corner the market on graphics software and bring their balance sheet back up.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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I guarantee that Canon knows the difference and removing 24 FPS 4K from their low cost offerings is not just an oversight.
Certainly. So why is it that people assume it's capricious, malicious, or just plain crazy? It's a business decision. People may not like it, but Canon would have considered that and decided to do it anyway.
 

hoodlum

EOS 90D
Jul 11, 2012
155
34
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M5 series is now dead according to Jeff Keller at Dpreview.


"Canon told us that the M6 II replaces both the M5 and M6."
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
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Certainly. So why is it that people assume it's capricious, malicious, or just plain crazy? It's a business decision. People may not like it, but Canon would have considered that and decided to do it anyway.
Because Canon doesn't communicate any reason for it, maybe? If they leave it to the people to interpret what their actions mean, it should not come as a surprise that there is a wide variety of interpretations. After all, one has to make assumptions in the absence of communication from Canon to form an opinion. And those are based on the people's subjective impressions and experiences.

If something is taken for granted because it's been present ever since it first arrived, taking it away for no apparent reason, do you really find it hard to see why it can be upsetting?
 

Joules

doom
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What noone mentions is the new sensor. Is that actually a new generation, stacked, BSI sensor? Not that it matters, if it does what it does. But if it really is a new Canon sensor generation, I wonder, why they don't rave about it more?
I don’t know, this sounds pretty raving to me:

"A 32.5 megapixel APS-C CMOS sensor works hand-in-hand with our bespoke DIGIC 8 image processor to deliver fantastic image quality – clarity, tonality and colour are all abundant, while noise in low-light conditions is kept to an absolute minimum. Sensitivity extends up to ISO 25,600 for hand-held shooting in dark conditions, while a wide dynamic range allows detail to be retained in bright highlights and dark shadows."

From https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-90d/image-quality/

All the praise you could give to sensor relevant image quality. Is it normal for them to mention DR in their material?
 

slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
4,567
2,909
If this is true, then it is a bit surprising. I was expecting some product differentiation, e.g. that M5 II is going to get an IBIS, thinking Canon was not ready with the feature in time, so that's a reason M5 II will get released later. But if there is not going to be any M5 II, we are going to live without an IBIS the whole one iteration, which means few years.
IBIS? I can live without it, it's superfluous. The (built in) EVF, now that is essential. Cameras have been doing just fine without stabilization for over 100 years, they haven't done very well without a viewfinder.
 

Randywayne

EOS M50
Oct 9, 2018
29
26
The first images I've seen from both camera's look really really good, without having blown them up to 100% yet that is. I'm really leaning towards the M6 II with my only issue being that I don't "need" it. LOL I already have my mirrorless bases covereed with the a7III and my main work horse body is the 5D mark IV.
 
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RayValdez360

Soon to be the greatest.
Jun 6, 2012
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Prior cameras had it, this one doesn't (maybe, still seems to be some debate). Logically, it was a definitive decision made by Canon. It seems pretty unlikely that they made that decision because they're malicious, crazy, or stupid.

You might consider that while in your personal reality 23.976fps equates to being 'serious about video', the majority of camera buyers do not live in your personal reality.
I don’t know, this sounds pretty raving to me:

"A 32.5 megapixel APS-C CMOS sensor works hand-in-hand with our bespoke DIGIC 8 image processor to deliver fantastic image quality – clarity, tonality and colour are all abundant, while noise in low-light conditions is kept to an absolute minimum. Sensitivity extends up to ISO 25,600 for hand-held shooting in dark conditions, while a wide dynamic range allows detail to be retained in bright highlights and dark shadows."

From https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-90d/image-quality/

All the praise you could give to sensor relevant image quality. Is it normal for them to mention DR in their material?
wow a company praising it's own product. we need an outside source. none of that is even close to scientific regarding the image quality and DR except the mention of megapixels
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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If all Canon cares about is saving pennies at the convenience of customers, they are out of touch. with them then. this definitely drives people to other brands for video.

Many loyal fans will be pushed to other brands by none other but Canon themselves. Many local stringers are getting annoyed with the wait. The Nikon dudes are sort of happy(er). 4 switched to Sony, 1 to Fuji. We need dual card slots for work on the main camera (and no, no one is upgrading to the 1dx2 or 3 when it comes out). We need PC sync. We need 24 to work in groups when the video editor says we need to shoot in 24.
Comments like this are common on these forums. People are switching brands. "We need [fill in the blank] or we will all switch to [fill in brand other than Canon, usually Sony]." The thing is, Canon has been omitting features for years, and there's no evidence that it's costing them net customers (in fact, the data suggest the opposite).

Some people simply refuse to let their opinions be influenced by facts.