Canon to Surprise With New Mirrorless Camera

[rrcphoto]

http://www.everyothershot.com/will-the-eos-m4-be-full-frame/

Interesting read to show that a full frame EOS-M mirrorless is very likely a possibility, with a sensor being able to crop on its own depending on what lense is used (according to Canon patent jargon). I.E. Self cropping when used with EF-S lense with adaptor, or with EF-M (APS-C).

except that a tilt shift adapter doesn't make sense for an EF lens to a FF EF-M sensor.

the tilt or shift adapter for a full frame EF lens to a cropped APS-C sensor. wonderful. I use one of those with the EF-M and FD lenses.

in theory the EF-M shipping with a focal reducer adapter and a tilt shift adapter and a nice performing camera that is tuned for EF lens performance? could be a nice package.

 

[Orangutan]

As usual around here, opinion trumps objective reality.

Tell you what. Come on over and I'll personally take you to the shops I mentioned and you too can ask any and all questions you like. That way you can verify for yourself the things you might hold in doubt.

Oh, I've talked to people in camera stores around here...usually the owners (a couple are personal friends). Canon's policies really don't favor brick and mortar stores, particularly small chains or solos. Things like volume invoice credits, prepayment requirements, and margin. Nikon is a little better, but not much. When you're the big fish in the pond, you can get away with it. Margins on MILCs and 3rd party lenses are higher, it's a way for those manufacturers to increase their market penetration.

Maybe you watched Miracle on 34th Street over the holidays? Remember how all the Macy's salespeople were given a list of products to push (until Kris came along, but after all it was a fantasy story)? When sales people tell you something is popular and 'flying off the shelves', you should consider their motivation.

The objective reality is the sales figures. Mirrorless is ~25% of the ILC market and their sales are basically flat. Anyone who says different is selling something…in your case quite literally!

speaking of numbers.

there was a really curious mass shipment of MILC"s into Asia regions in november.

it's really curious because it was dramatic. up from around 60,000 units the prior year to over 180K last year.

doesn't seem to be attributed to any one vendor.. however the only two vendors I could see that could ship that much inventory are canon or nikon.

Source?

CIPA data.

Quotes and URLs?

 

[JBSF]

I TOH, in informal unscientific, non-statistically accurate conversations with folks at several camera shops, the stuff that's flying off the shelves these days are the Sony FF/APS-C mirrorless cameras and lenses. They're seeing the pros switching systems and this has the "pull along effect" of encouraging non-pro buyers into Sony products, too.

As usual around here, opinion trumps objective reality.

Must be the same shop where they told me that Swarovski used their cystals for prisms in their binoculars.

 

[Loswr]

Source?

CIPA data.

Quotes and URLs?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spoon-feed

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

 

[kphoto99]

My two cents, for what it's worth:

I would get excited with a full frame MILC from Canon that had a native EF mount. Yeah it would have to be a bit bigger to support the flange distance, but it could still be lighter than a DSLR. The 6D sensor would be a fabulous start. Toss in really nice 1080p video capabilities and it would be a camera well recived by a wide audience. I wouldnt mind seeing a classical design either like a leica M9. I'd buy it in a heartbeat as a killer travel rig.

If you add a fixed mirror to the camera then it can be very thin. Optically the mirror can be a part of the sensor stack.

 

[Orangutan]

Source?

CIPA data.

Quotes and URLs?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spoon–feed

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

??? ;D

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smartass

Even references to public data merit brief citations.

 

[Loswr]

Source?

CIPA data.

Quotes and URLs?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spoon-feed

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

??? ;D

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smartass

Even references to public data merit brief citations.

He did cite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy

http://bfy.tw/3uIk

 

[Orangutan]

He did cite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy

http://bfy.t

"CIPA data" is not a citation. If you're already familiar with CIPA it will do the trick;however, I am not intimately familiar with CIPA data, nor are many other readers on this forum. Assuming everyone has the same contextual background as you is presumptuous.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ivory%20tower

 

[1kind]

Looking at it from this perspective, it strongly smells of Canon not wanting to eat it's own lunch by sinking yet more costly R&D monies into parallel product lines.

Which reminds me of Sony's own conundrum many years ago. Siemens offered Sony what would've been first whack at the LCD flat-panel market (which at the time was basically non-existant). Sony passed because their Trinitron TV's were selling like hot cakes.

So, Siemans went to LG and Samsung. And the rest, as we say, is history.

The moral of the story should/could be obvious. I think Canon is currently facing a similar conundrum. Only in this case, the situation is slightly different in that Sony/Oly/Pana/Fuji have already built-out/carved-out/proven the market.

Of course it doesn't help that Sony has heavily invested in sensors of all kinds. Canon has a LOT of catch-up to play and I seriously doubt they have the financial resources to pull it off.

Canon doesn't have the financial resources? You do know that out of Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc., they do NOT have any debt? Everything they purchase whether its buildings or businesses, its cash.

So I'm sure they have the resources and the ability to do R&D perfectly fine. Its a matter of whether or not they are willing to spend money towards it.

 

[Loswr]

He did cite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy

http://bfy.t

"CIPA data" is not a citation. If you're already familiar with CIPA it will do the trick;however, I am not intimately familiar with CIPA data, nor are many other readers on this forum. Assuming everyone has the same contextual background as you is presumptuous.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ivory%20tower

Apologies for my presumptuousness in assuming that an intelligent person with >1200 posts on a Canon forum, who has been engaged in previous discussions referencing CIPA data including links, would have the necessary contextual understanding. My bad.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/memory

 

[Orangutan]

He did cite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy

http://bfy.t

"CIPA data" is not a citation. If you're already familiar with CIPA it will do the trick;however, I am not intimately familiar with CIPA data, nor are many other readers on this forum. Assuming everyone has the same contextual background as you is presumptuous.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ivory%20tower

Apologies for my presumptuousness in assuming that an intelligent person with >1200 posts on a Canon forum, who has been engaged in previous discussions referencing CIPA data including links, would have the necessary contextual understanding. My bad.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/memory

Understandable, but if you'll notice, I rarely make reference to specific data. My thing is to address how people think about information rather than the source of it. You're good at digging up data, but I try to frame data in a way it will be understood.

Another bit of background: in rrcphoto's original post he had different numbers, then edited before I posted my first reply. To be honest, I thought he was making it up to sound reasonable, so I thought I was calling him on that. (occasionally people here fabricate information from secret sources). If "CIPA data" had been cited by one of the posters I believe to be reliable I probably would have let it go there.

 

[rrcphoto]

He did cite.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lazy

http://bfy.t

"CIPA data" is not a citation. If you're already familiar with CIPA it will do the trick;however, I am not intimately familiar with CIPA data, nor are many other readers on this forum. Assuming everyone has the same contextual background as you is presumptuous.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ivory%20tower

Apologies for my presumptuousness in assuming that an intelligent person with >1200 posts on a Canon forum, who has been engaged in previous discussions referencing CIPA data including links, would have the necessary contextual understanding. My bad.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/memory

Understandable, but if you'll notice, I rarely make reference to specific data. My thing is to address how people think about information rather than the source of it. You're good at digging up data, but I try to frame data in a way it will be understood.

Another bit of background: in rrcphoto's original post he had different numbers, then edited before I posted my first reply. To be honest, I thought he was making it up to sound reasonable, so I thought I was calling him on that. (occasionally people here fabricate information from secret sources). If "CIPA data" had been cited by one of the posters I believe to be reliable I probably would have let it go there.

lol .. so now you are saying I'm not reliable.

wow .. nice thanks.

and yes, I went first by memory,and then verified the numbers again to make sure I knew them. I had transposed the global shipment number in my mind with asia.

as far as your high and mighty attitude, I could give you the link, but if you are too freaking lazy to do "cipa camera statistics" in google.. well, heck, go ahead and waste 10 more minutes writing replies.

when quoting numbers such as that .. I figured that anyone with a reasonable amount of active braincells on a camera / canon forum would know that shipment data comes from CIPA.

clearly I was wrong .. or perhaps I was correct .

 

[josephandrews222]

[/quote]
in theory the EF-M shipping with a focal reducer adapter and a tilt shift adapter and a nice performing camera that is tuned for EF lens performance? could be a nice package.
[/quote]

I'm trying to get my thinking in line with this--a small camera with not one but two adapters attached to it.

 

[rrcphoto]

in theory the EF-M shipping with a focal reducer adapter and a tilt shift adapter and a nice performing camera that is tuned for EF lens performance? could be a nice package.
[/quote]

I'm trying to get my thinking in line with this--a small camera with not one but two adapters attached to it.
[/quote]

perhaps not at once? wouldn't work. two separate adapters.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Indeed, I am in Europe.

I have no skin in any particular company's game. I, like many interested parties, simply choose the tools that best suit personal needs and situations. I have no vested interest in skewing observations one way or another just to "prove" some point or another.

The folks I talked with in informal conversations were the big sellers at Salon de la Photo Paris last November.

I also keep in touch with a few sales guys back in the States. I've known them for, well, decades now. They were the ones who sold me all the Canon DSLRs I've owned over the years, as well as more than a few lenses, too. I'm sure they enjoyed their commissions off the sales I gave them. They are the ones who confirmed what the Parisians were telling me.

Again, nothing I said has any statistical backing. My observations stem from a series of on-going informal off the record conversations with guys who work behind the counters at various camera stores in Europe and the US. That's all.

...still a pretty small statistical sample. you are in france?...

 

[privatebydesign]

Indeed, I am in Europe.

I have no skin in any particular company's game. I, like many interested parties, simply choose the tools that best suit personal needs and situations. I have no vested interest in skewing observations one way or another just to "prove" some point or another.

The folks I talked with in informal conversations were the big sellers at Salon de la Photo Paris last November.

I also keep in touch with a few sales guys back in the States. I've known them for, well, decades now. They were the ones who sold me all the Canon DSLRs I've owned over the years, as well as more than a few lenses, too. I'm sure they enjoyed their commissions off the sales I gave them. They are the ones who confirmed what the Parisians were telling me.

Again, nothing I said has any statistical backing. My observations stem from a series of on-going informal off the record conversations with guys who work behind the counters at various camera stores in Europe and the US. That's all.

...still a pretty small statistical sample. you are in france?...

You might not have any skin in the game, but the people that tell you do. And the sales numbers just don't support their comments...............

 

[Loswr]

You're good at digging up data, but I try to frame data in a way it will be understood.

I never try to 'frame data in a way it will be understood' because I know that data are plural.

 

[Loswr]

Indeed, I am in Europe.

I have no skin in any particular company's game. I, like many interested parties, simply choose the tools that best suit personal needs and situations. I have no vested interest in skewing observations one way or another just to "prove" some point or another.

The folks I talked with in informal conversations were the big sellers at Salon de la Photo Paris last November.

I also keep in touch with a few sales guys back in the States. I've known them for, well, decades now. They were the ones who sold me all the Canon DSLRs I've owned over the years, as well as more than a few lenses, too. I'm sure they enjoyed their commissions off the sales I gave them. They are the ones who confirmed what the Parisians were telling me.

Again, nothing I said has any statistical backing. My observations stem from a series of on-going informal off the record conversations with guys who work behind the counters at various camera stores in Europe and the US. That's all.

...still a pretty small statistical sample. you are in france?...

You might not have any skin in the game, but the people that tell you do. And the sales numbers just don't support their comments...............

...and that's why anecdotes aren't data.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Have it your way. Certainly. By all means.

Just don't forget that data lags. OK? It reports - past tense. It's not a very good reflection of the present.

We'll see you in another 12 months to see how your "data" is doing, shall we?

Indeed, I am in Europe.

I have no skin in any particular company's game. I, like many interested parties, simply choose the tools that best suit personal needs and situations. I have no vested interest in skewing observations one way or another just to "prove" some point or another.

The folks I talked with in informal conversations were the big sellers at Salon de la Photo Paris last November.

I also keep in touch with a few sales guys back in the States. I've known them for, well, decades now. They were the ones who sold me all the Canon DSLRs I've owned over the years, as well as more than a few lenses, too. I'm sure they enjoyed their commissions off the sales I gave them. They are the ones who confirmed what the Parisians were telling me.

Again, nothing I said has any statistical backing. My observations stem from a series of on-going informal off the record conversations with guys who work behind the counters at various camera stores in Europe and the US. That's all.

...still a pretty small statistical sample. you are in france?...

You might not have any skin in the game, but the people that tell you do. And the sales numbers just don't support their comments...............

...and that's why anecdotes aren't data.

 

[Orangutan]

You're good at digging up data, but I try to frame data in a way it will be understood.

I never try to 'frame data in a way it will be understood' because I know that data are plural.

I used to be a pedant, too; it turns out that when you engage in pedantry it detracts from your message.