EOS M related camera bodies coming in late August 2019 [CR1]

[uri.raz]

EF-M 8-15mm fisheye

I wonder why for two reasons:

1. You can mount the existing EF 8-15mm f/4L with an adapter.

2. You'll get diagonal fisheye, but not circular fisheye. Why not hope for an EF-M 5-10mm?

 

[neuroanatomist]

I never understood the appeal of the M series.

Let me sum it up for you in 1,000 words.

 

[canonnews]

I wonder why for two reasons:

1. You can mount the existing EF 8-15mm f/4L with an adapter.

2. You'll get diagonal fisheye, but not circular fisheye. Why not hope for an EF-M 5-10mm?

because it wasn't an 8-16. the patent we found for this, had a 5-10mm APS-C fisheye and an 8-16 full frame fisheye.

 

[canonnews]

How. Does reality factor in to Canon’s plans? If we’re talking about worldwide sales Canon was proud to concede FF mirrorlesss to Sony and anyone else. It was an unexpected shift in plans that brought about their FF mirrorless cameras, neither of which are truly competitive nor selling well. The RF mount coupled with the RP is considered by most (including Canon) to be a massive push from APS-C to FF, taking a vast majority of internals from their EF-M cameras to piece together the RP. I don’t know how you definen arbitrary, but if I was a Canon APS-C shooter (DSLR or mirrorless) that move would feel rather arbitrary to me, especially Canon being the only company that isn’t rumored to be developing an APS-C model with their latest and greatest mirrorless mount and lenses.

I’m just curious how you arrived at your conclusions?

We discovered the RF/EF protocol patent app last year, with a publish date of 2016.

So we have good evidence that the RF system was in R&D way back in 2016, if not sooner. Initial R&D probably started to occur as far back as 2014-15.

A capable camera such as an EOS R most likely takes in order to 2-3 years to develop, even an RP takes a while to develop. Don't forgot not only do you have to design the electronics, you have to design, study, re-design, study more the ergonomic design especially of an entirely new camera, then you have to create the molds, design the assembly, do all the multi-lingual translations, manuals, certifications (which can take over a half a year right there), etc,etc,etc.

None of these decisions by Canon (nor Nikon) were done on a whim and a drop of a hat. That seems to be an ongoing internet myth being perpetuated.

Also we have no idea how well the EOS R,etc are selling. we have Japan marketshare numbers for a short period of time, however, the mirrorless full frame numbers in Japan in actual units are so small, there are statistically insignificant.

 

[jeanluc]

Let me sum it up for you in 1,000 words. View attachment 184495

How do you like your RRS L bracket on your R? Especially regarding the flip screen?

 

[espressino]

Good that M stays alive and there will be 2 new lenses! Bad if M6 is not updated. Range finder format makes much more sense to me. I guess just because people are used to look at the viewfinder.

Bummer about the M6. I quite like that the viewfinder is optional, so depending on the situations the camera can be even more compact, or a tad more sunshine-friendly with the viewfinder attached. (Even though, perpetually: when you push and hold the "downward" or "info" button for over a second on the M6, as well as the higher range Powershots, the display will temporarily light up at the brightest setting. Works for some.)
Another reason why it's sad to see the M6 go is that IMHO design-wise the silver version was the only camera model where Canon offered a non-black version which didn't look just trashy (like the SL2 in white), and it also referenced the design of Canon's older rangefinder cameras. Unimportant perhaps but might cater to some buyer segments.

 

[StoicalEtcher]

Let me sum it up for you in 1,000 words. View attachment 184495

Very well put!

 

[neuroanatomist]

How do you like your RRS L bracket on your R? Especially regarding the flip screen?

Construction is the usual RRS high standard. Seems Canon put a little hole in the bottom of the R, and RRS put a pin in it so there’s no twist whatsoever.

The LCD is constrained by the L-bracket. It can flip out only to ~175° with the display vertical. With the display horizontal (screen pointing up or down), it can flip out the full 180° (Into the gap in the upright), but in that position the display can only be rotated about ±30°.

For my uses, I can live with the constraints and overall I like the bracket. I would have preferred the modular design where the upright is removable, though – love that on my 1D X bracket.

 

[Hector1970]

Let me sum it up for you in 1,000 words. View attachment 184495

A more relevant size comparison

 

[koketso]

I assum it will be

What's the M500?

I assume it will be an M50 without the viewfinder. if it keeps the vari-angle touchscreen and same 24MP sensor then it will be an instant hit for vloggers and video shooters looking for a B cam with DPAF.

 

[koenkooi]

I assum it will be

I assume it will be an M50 without the viewfinder. if it keeps the vari-angle touchscreen and same 24MP sensor then it will be an instant hit for vloggers and video shooters looking for a B cam with DPAF.

In that case it will be the smallest, lightest and cheapest Canon camera with eye AF.

 

[Kit.]

Let me sum it up for you in 1,000 words.

Now add G7X there.

 

[bainsybike]

A more relevant size comparison

 

[neuroanatomist]

A more relevant size comparison
View attachment 184507 View attachment 184507

Relevant if you take pictures without a lens attached to your camera. How has that been working out for you?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Now add G7X there.

Put an iPhone there, if sensor size and the ability to change lenses don’t matter to you. They matter to me.

 

[Hector1970]

Relevant if you take pictures without a lens attached to your camera. How has that been working out for you?

But that's the point. Canon could produce small lens for the EOS-RP like they do for the M and probably will do so.
As a user I'd have one less mount to worry about.
The M50 seems to have a strong following and it appears to get very positive comments here.
I didn't really see the attraction of it but I guess for me an Olympus is covering the equivalent and if the M50 had been out before I got the Olympus I'd be a very happy M50 owner too.
Canon wasn't looking too far ahead at the time but its a pity the M mount wasn't the same as what they chose for the R series. But its too late now. I just wouldn't have personal confidence Canon will keep supporting the M mount and its lens system when they can probably produce an R of a very similar size and small lens.
In the end Canon will decide based on profitability. If people keep buying M50's or equivalents it will survive away.

 

[Kit.]

Put an iPhone there, if sensor size and the ability to change lenses don’t matter to you. They matter to me.

When sensor size matters to me, I prefer full frame cameras. When the ability to change lenses matters to me, I prefer big body cameras as well (TS-E 17 is kinda pointless on a crop camera, and if I carry a 100-400, camera being M-sized doesn't really help).

In addition, I think, you grossly underestimate the absolute aperture of a G7X lens.

 

[bf]

People like me who positively hate having to look at the little screen at the back of a camera, especially in sunshine.
I'll never understand how one can buy a camera without a viewfinder (like I bought that cute little Olympus Pen ).
Maybe I'm stupid (I certainly am), but I'm also unable to use live-view...in daylight.

I have had the external EVF with M6; it came as a free gift from B&H but I have only used it a couple of times. I think the LCD in back of the camera is much larger and brighter than the little one in EVF. Then, there is also shooting remotely by your phone, which I used only a couple of times more than EVF. Also, shooting from hip that I do much more than EVF.

 

[neuroanatomist]

But that's the point. Canon could produce small lens for the EOS-RP like they do for the M and probably will do so.

Perhaps they could...but they haven’t. But let me get this straight, you are basing your lack of understanding of the M system’s appeal on the current lack of some hypothetical future lenses Canon may or may not produce? Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Even if Canon does come out with small lenses for the RF mount (slow, variable aperture zooms that have just decent optical quality), the system will still be substantially larger than the M line

More importantly, smaller RF lenses won’t detract from the other major reason for the appeal of the M system:

Next you’ll probably claim that Canon could make RF lenses and a FF MILC cheaper. Before doing so, you should consider the fact that the for the same price of the slow variable aperture, medium image quality EF 24-105/3.5-5.6 STM, I can buy an M6 + M15-45 kit.

But it’s ok if you don’t understand the appeal, enough people do to make it one of the most popular MILC lines in the world, and the most popular mirrorless line in Japan.

 

[neuroanatomist]

When sensor size matters to me, I prefer full frame cameras. When the ability to change lenses matters to me, I prefer big body cameras as well (TS-E 17 is kinda pointless on a crop camera, and if I carry a 100-400, camera being M-sized doesn't really help).

That’s why there is an EOS R in the picture. Regardless, adding a point and shoot camera into the mix is seriously moving the goalposts for the comparison.