F1 Photography Advice

[TheJock]

It's also possible that my standards are quite low. If you want to experience low-functioning fans, all you have to do is talk to a NASCAR or a drag racing fan.

I would love to get my mitts on a NASCAR race!!!, we have drag racing here in Abu Dhabi too, I will be attending this year as a spectator (no JCB for that event), but one of the most fun events I have had over here was the Aussie V8 Supercars last year, they were one of the support races at the F1, what a scream those guys are!!! Their main recovery man was a typical Aussie, the comment of the weekend from him was (rather rude, so my apologies in advance) as he described the difference between being able to salvage a car that could potentially continue (so to be gentle) compared to pulling a wrecked car out the Armco wall, he said “F**K it, it’s F**ked”, made me laugh ;D

I would love nothing more than to visit places like the US and Australia to witness their races first hand, I have an invite to go and marshal in Melbourne (need to do the CAMS registration) but I’m starting a new job in a month, so it’ll probably not happen next year :-\
My next race is the 12 hours at Yas Marina in December, I think that a guy from my home town in Scotland is driving for an American Le Mans GT1 team (Starworks Motorsport) and may be participating, so that’ll be interesting.
Anyhoo, I’m conscious that I’m adding no value to the OP’er, but I’m delighted to chat away on this subject, cheers. :-X

 

[CarlTN]

I went to the practice and qualifying sessions of this weekend’s F1 race in Austin at the Circuit of the Americas (COTA). Representative photos can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1

The COTA web site indicated they had no restrictions on the size of detachable lenses. So on Friday’s practice day I decided to bring my old manual focus Canon FD 800mm with Ed Mika’s adapter on my 5Diii. I thought that trying to capture these high-speed cars with an 800mm on a monopod with no autofocus or image stabilization would be an exercise in futility, but I got some great shots. Keeper rate was far south of 50%, but I am no pro and don’t have to get the shot. It also helps that I live in Austin, so this is not a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don’t want to blow.

I also brought a friend’s 400mm 5.6 which I have used on the COTA track before for the motorcycle GP and it would be a great option. I didn’t use it too much as I wanted to experiment with the 800mm. The 400mm is obviously a more portable option than the 2 foot long and heavy 800mm. However, next year I probably will just bring the 800 to practice day as it was just a lot of fun trying to manually focus and get the shot. Pre-focusing on a spot worked the most reliably, but it was fun to try to also attempt to focus on the cars in random areas.

On Saturday, qualifying day, I decided to recover from my hernia from carrying around the 800 on Friday, and just brought my 5Diii and a 24-105. I was sitting on the 23rd row at the straight following turn 15 so my line of sight to the cars was just above the top of the fence. I tried my hand at 125/sec exposure pans to get motion blur and initially got a very low keeper rate. I got better when I tried to focus in on one spot on the car and keep it in my center focus spot as the car flew by. Needless to say, the photos on my Pbase account using the 24-105 are heavily cropped.

The bottom line for me was to have good quality lenses, even if they may lack such things as autofocus and image stabilization, be prepared to take a lot of photos to up your chances of keepers and, if you are going to have to do a lot of cropping, the more resolution your camera has the better.

Nice job on those!

 

[CarlTN]

One thing that is both a plus and a minus (you may know this already): 2014 sees all new smaller V6 engines and chassis, with state of the art turbo charging that is all combined with electric motor assist/batteries (I don't like this part)...but it's possible the cars might be a bit quieter than the current V8's. Obviously they won't be as quiet as normal "turbo" cars can be.

I just got back from the USGP, and I feel very fortunate that I got to hear the 2.4L naturally aspirated V-8s screaming away at 18,000 rpm one last time. While I appreciate the technology involved with next's year's turbo V-6s, the sound is much more subdued. Mercedes recently posted a sound clip of the 2014 V-6 running a simulated lap at Monza on the dyno:

2014: A lap with the new Mercedes-Benz V6!

Still a nice sound, but not nearly as visceral at the naturally aspirated V-8s.

Thanks for posting that. What's really cool, is the sound of the "old" 3 liter V-10's that revved to 20,000 rpm. Almost like if a Sith amplified the sound of a mosquito after it inhaled some helium and got sucked into a hypersonic wind tunnel !!

I'm glad you got hear them. Even though I haven't heard them in person, I've heard them a lot on my home theater. All I can say is, I would always wear earplugs, even for the new turbo cars. I might have liked to pull them out for a few seconds, but that would have been enough. It's not that I don't love visceral machines, I just want to preserve my hearing as best I can. I even wear earplugs when I ride my dirtbike and atv.

 

[IMG_0001]

As far as F1 sound goes, I've always been in deep love with 12 cylinders on the overruns... In 2010, vintage F1 ran as a sideshow at the Montreal GP and I just enjoyed the sound of the cars from the late sixties and seventies sooooo much!!!

And trying to relate the posts from the OP... Here are a few photos taken with the XSI and 70-300 IS USM. I used AV mode at the time so movement was frozen. Now I use M mode to force a slower shutter.

Ohhh those 312Bs...

 

[Lloyd]

Nice job on those!

Thanks for the kind words. I think I was as surprised as anyone when I was running the 800mm shots through lightroom that they came out as well as they did with this old manual focus FD lens. I really need to thank Ed Mika for his FD adapter that brought this old 800 beast back to life.

 

[IMG_0001]

Nice job on those!

Thanks for the kind words. I think I was as surpised as anyone when I was running the 800mm shots through lightroom that they came out as well as they did with this old manual focus FD lens. I really need to thank Ed Mika for his FD adapter that brought this old 800 beast back to life.

Now, if I was the OP, I would ditch the 70-200 idea and head straight to ebay for a FD mount super-tele and some of those adapters! Respect to those shooting motorsport in manual focus.

 

[CarlTN]

Some great advice in this thread, as well as some great shots taken by people modestly labeling themselves as amateurs

I took my 5D3, 24-105, and 70-300L to this year's USGP, but honestly I didn't take many images at all. Since this was the first F1 race I attending, I wanted to enjoy the event instead watching bits and pieces of the race through a viewfinder.

A few observations from COTA:

- I scoped out all the general admissions area, and you're either too far away from the track and/or shooting through the fence to get a good shot.
- At the sections of the track (Turns 7, 8, 11) that offers good vantage point that aren't obstructed by the fence, a 300mm lens isn't nearly long enough.
- If the fence if brightly lit, and you're several hundreds of feet away from it, the AF will focus on the fence no matter what. That was the situation from the general admissions area, half way up the hill in Turn 1, which is where I watched the race from. A good work around was opening up the aperture, manually focusing near the apex of the turn, and shooting the cars as they passed through that point. An even better work around is to just put the camera down and enjoy the race I saw lots of spectators so fixated on shooting that they had no idea what was going on during the race.
- As others suggested, do most of the shooting during practice and qualifying. Slaving away through a viewfinder is no way to enjoy the spectacle of F1 racing.

As an American, a Texan, and an Austinite, it's great to hear all the positive comments from the drivers regarding COTA, but I still think Spa is the best track on earth. Does anyone have pics from Spa they want to share ? If I can only attend one other F1 race, I want to go to Spa!

I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures from Spa, but I agree with you it's the finest track of them all. It's the mother of all race tracks. Only really good drivers win here, remember Hakkinen's overtake on Schumi. He flew over the left cerb at Eau Rouge to set up the greatest overtake in F1 history.

What year was that?

 

[CarlTN]

Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth... I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1. I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.

Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over. He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more. I personally found the practice laps more exciting than the actual race.

For me, taking pictures at multiple corners actually helped make the race more interesting. Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old. They all did the same thing and drove by. I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.

In the end the weekend itself was fun. Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene. The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities. But the actual race? Maybe I just don't get it...

But I don't feel like I lost anything by taking pictures...

You're probably right in a way, a good percentage of F1 fans in the world, are kind of like Nascar fans. All they care about are the drivers, not the cars.

However, to wonder why so many people in the world love F1 is not hard to grasp at all. It's because the spectacle is like nothing else. It's also the rich history of the race...and because the drivers are generally from all over the world, and especially all over Europe, where most of the tracks are. It's also because no other road racing car of any kind can come close to their speed on a road race track. It's simply the physics and resources involved that spell this out. For example, did you know it takes them 6 months to manufacture each brake disc?

You should have asked your fellow race attendees why they liked it so much, because apparently the crowd attendance was a record high on race day at over 100k (I assume beating last year's inaugural race).

I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way. His tenure can't last forever, though. If he's had an overall positive impact on the series, I don't know of it. Maybe he's helped the manufacturers limit their cost at times, by limiting the amount of time they have to develop...but I have to think the manufacturers, are also generally not pleased with all of F1 management, especially with Bernie.

I am not a fan of Nascar, at all, heritage or not. The cars are ugly, cumbersome, low in technology...and I'm not sure what the goals of the series are, other than to simply make money. They certainly are not striking new ground technology wise, or speed wise. Innovation and Nascar are almost mutually exclusive. Most of the drivers seem very dimwitted to me...and I'm from the South! I guess that might be feigned at times, for the entertainment value of seeing the obligatory hick race driver interviewed in various media, I don't know. I understand people enjoying going to the races, but frankly there's better racing to watch. Anyone who knows anything about driving cars, especially a sports car that can change directions and speed quickly (and not always go left, or not always go straight...ovals and dragsters)...should be in love with F1, it seems to me. Even the "IZOD" Indycars are a pale imitation, whether or not their series predates F1 (which it does).

Since you're an engineer, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from a bit. Sportscar racing, and F1, are the purist types of motorsports. Everything else is watered down, or distilled to something less entertaining...at least to me.

 

[V8Beast]

I would love to get my mitts on a NASCAR race!!!, we have drag racing here in Abu Dhabi too, I will be attending this year as a spectator (no JCB for that event), but one of the most fun events I have had over here was the Aussie V8 Supercars last year, they were one of the support races at the F1, what a scream those guys are!!! Their main recovery man was a typical Aussie, the comment of the weekend from him was (rather rude, so my apologies in advance) as he described the difference between being able to salvage a car that could potentially continue (so to be gentle) compared to pulling a wrecked car out the Armco wall, he said “F**K it, it’s F**ked”, made me laugh ;D

Be careful what you wish for. Most people attending a NASCAR race are just looking for an excuse to get drunk in public on a Sunday morning. Drag racing fans are similar, but instead of waiting until 10 am to get drunk they're already drunk by 8 am ;D

I'd love to soak of the car scene in the Middle East sometime. The sight of so many Ferraris, Lamboghinis, and Bugattis street racing is just nuts.

I also love me some V8 Supercars, and will make sure to attend the race in Austin next year. Ironically, the closest thing you can get to American Trans Am racing from the '60s is the Australian V8 Supercars series. Speaking of Australia, the Bathurst circuit is one of a true hidden gems of the racing world. What an epic track!

 

[V8Beast]

What year was that?

2000

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D

 

[V8Beast]

I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way. His tenure can't last forever, though.

I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1. He is good for a laugh from time to time, though. A reporter once asked him if he thinks having a female driver in F1 would help the sport's image, he replied something along the lines of:

"What I would really like to see happen is to find the right girl, perhaps a black girl with super looks, preferably Jewish or Muslim, who speaks Spanish."

 

[TheJock]

I also love me some V8 Supercars, and will make sure to attend the race in Austin next year. Ironically, the closest thing you can get to American Trans Am racing from the '60s is the Australian V8 Supercars series. Speaking of Australia, the Bathurst circuit is one of a true hidden gems of the racing world. What an epic track!

There are a couple of Aussies on my recovery team and they have some amazing stories from back home. They told me that a few years back the “powers that be” decided to limit the booze the fans can take in on race weekend, this was to stop the annual sporadic violence between Holden and Ford fans, however (notice how every good story has a however 8)); the fans got smarter and simply went the week before and buried cases of beer in the camping area to combat the restriction!!!
Funnily enough, I start work for the Australian Government in 3 weeks, we share one thing in common already!!!

 

[CarlTN]

I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way. His tenure can't last forever, though.

I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1. He is good for a laugh from time to time, though. A reporter once asked him if he thinks having a female driver in F1 would help the sport's image, he replied something along the lines of:

"What I would really like to see happen is to find the right girl, perhaps a black girl with super looks, preferably Jewish or Muslim, who speaks Spanish."

That's a riot!! You also didn't mention his obvious attempt to mimic the look of Andy Warhol. Very odd looking little man...

 

[CarlTN]

What year was that?

2000

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D

Thanks very much, that was superb! Makes all the races I've watched over the last 5 years look very very boring. Spa is the first place I will go, preferably to the F1 race there...when I finally visit Europe. Would also like to see the race in Budapest...besides the city. Monte Carlo would be third, and Monza fourth on my list.

The cars look faster back then; I know they cost a lot more and had active stability control, besides more power and more displacement. 2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's! If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind. Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!

 

[Arctic Photo]

What year was that?

2000

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D

Thanks very much, that was superb! Makes all the races I've watched over the last 5 years look very very boring. Spa is the first place I will go, preferably to the F1 race there...when I finally visit Europe. Would also like to see the race in Budapest...besides the city. Monte Carlo would be third, and Monza fourth on my list.

The cars look faster back then; I know they cost a lot more and had active stability control, besides more power and more displacement. 2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's! If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind. Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!

The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

 

[V8Beast]

2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see

 

[V8Beast]

The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) ?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!

 

[Arctic Photo]

The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) ?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!

I miss MIka also, very much. He is definitely in the all time top ten list. Courage, skill, intelligence, raw speed, a tactical mind, he had it all, a true racer. I would be very happy to see Kimi beat Seb next year, but I am afraid his back won't let him. Kimi is up there with Mika, Schumi, Alonso, Senna and a few others. One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

I look forward to next year, Newey will build a great car again for RBR but the turbo engines will make sure it's a completely new game.

Not much about photography here. I have a few taken with my old P&S from the Malaysian GP 2005, but not on the computer I'm using now. There's a decent one on JV there. I'll look for it and post it. I miss JV in the sport.

 

[CarlTN]

2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see

It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos. I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters! The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though. Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power. I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well. You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline. Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet! I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

 

[V8Beast]

One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

Hadn't heard that story about Kimi before, but it's fascinating nonetheless. I had a chance to meet Kimi at an autograph session in 2003, right after he lost the championship to Schumacher by 1 point. Let's just say that while he's an incredible talent, he's just as personable in real life as he is on TV ;D

Alonso is one heck of a driver as well. My hard head still thinks that Alonso and Hamilton have the edge in talent over Vettel. IMHO, the Ferrari chassis was a 5th or 6th place car much of this season, and the fact that Alonso managed to consistently put it on the podium is nothing short of miraculous. I just don't understand why Luca Di Montezemolo feels the need to criticize Alonso's performance in public when his engineers gave him a mediocre car! Perhaps Luca's forgotten that his teams boneheaded pit strategy cost Fernando the championship in 2010?