Help with 8mm video copying

[Kuja]

Yes, the quality of the gear and cabling can largely influence the final result.

In my VHS digititizing chain I have used the best machines and cables that I could get.
I have used a high quality Panasonic HiFi stereo SVHS VCR (HiFi stereo was not needed per se, but the SVHS capability was important) that has some advanced "3D" digital noise reduction circuitry and filtering.
I have connected it (using high quality S-video and audio cables) to a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder, that was used solely as a passtrough device because it has a TBC (time base corrector), in order to stabilize the video that otherwise would jump and wiggle.
Then, the S-video output from the HDD/DVD recorder was connected to the S-video input of a Canopus ADVC100 converter that was connected with a firewire cable to my old MacMini (the late 2012 version, the last one that still had the firewire port). ADVC100 has an important "locked audio" feature, so the audio/video syncronization can not drift apart during the longer recordings.

Yes, it could have been done even better, with a better pro grade equipment, that could provide further picture enhancements and tweaking of sharpness, colors, contrast, etc, using a completely lossless codec instead of DV, but, at the end, I'm very happy with the results as they are.

Here is the video explaining the importance of TBC (the author even used the newer version of the Canopus device that I've used in my process):

 

[Jack Douglas]

When I digitized my Video 8 tapes recently I was also concerned about how the quality of the output of >20yr old tapes would look especially, on modern TV screens. In the end it didn't really matter that much. The kids are just happy that I had future proofed family memories and were more than happy to view the videos on their iPhones - maybe twice. Of the videos I sent of to our friends I would say they were viewed as a one off thing and provoked a bit of light hearted discussion on aging (mainly hair loss).

I guess if you have the knowledge to do an A1 job that's great, but it's also about preserving the memories.

I agree 100% but I really have to fight against my personality!

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Yes, the quality of the gear and cabling can largely influence the final result.

In my VHS digititizing chain I have used the best machines and cables that I could get.
I have used a high quality Panasonic HiFi stereo SVHS VCR (HiFi stereo was not needed per se, but the SVHS capability was important) that has some advanced "3D" digital noise reduction circuitry and filtering.
I have connected it (using high quality S-video and audio cables) to a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder, that was used solely as a passtrough device because it has a TBC (time base corrector), in order to stabilize the video that otherwise would jump and wiggle.
Then, the S-video output from the HDD/DVD recorder was connected to the S-video input of a Canopus ADVC100 converter that was connected with a firewire cable to my old MacMini (the late 2012 version, the last one that still had the firewire port). ADVC100 has an important "locked audio" feature, so the audio/video syncronization can not drift apart during the longer recordings.

Yes, it could have been done even better, with a better pro grade equipment, that could provide further picture enhancements and tweaking of sharpness, colors, contrast, etc, using a completely lossless codec instead of DV, but, at the end, I'm very happy with the results as they are.

Here is the video explaining the importance of TBC (the author even used the newer version of the Canopus device that I've used in my process):

Kuja, I'm more or less isolated without close friends that understand any of this. There was a time when I instructed electronics students in a technical college and could get answers to virtually anything just by mentioning what I was trying to do, either from students or colleagues. Your process sounds great but it's not going to be feasible for me.

What tends to happen when you're into the your senior years is that there has been a gradual disconnect from what's going on that is higher tech and when you try to reconnect there is a steep learning curve. Young people are driven and fascinated by the tech and also want to impress friends or peers - I've been there long ago. Now it's just, please I need to get this done well ASAP and I'm not dreaming of a career in Video. I have trouble enough keeping up with the photography tech and even just learning to use a modern camera to its full potential is a challenge.

At this point I now at least understand superficially what is going on and what the challenges are but I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a product due to uncertainty (probably not justifiable). Not sure if this is correct but so far I don't detect that someone has just now completed this process with X product using Win 10. Some of the suggested hardware is pretty dated such that Win 10 isn't even mentioned etc. and when Win 10 is mention in reviews it's often in a complaints context.

Jack

 

[stevelee]

I agree 100% but I really have to fight against my personality!

Jack

As for the 80%-20% rule, my suspicion is that most of that 20% is not there to get. You may simulate some of it in post. De-interlacing will be part of the process anyway, and the quality of that will depend upon the algorithm more than the equipment. At the risk of rambling on (so you are warned you may not want to bother reading further), I will mention some of my analogous projects, anticipated or competed.

Somewhere in my garage is a Beta tape copy of a video I and two other guys made in 1984 for a church celebration. It dealt with the history of Methodist from its founding through the twelve churches in the northern part of the county from Colonial days, and of that church up to the then present. The original and all of the VHS copies have been lost, as far as I know. The other two guys who worked on it are deceased, as are all the older people in the congregation who were interviewed on camera in the closing third. Somewhere in my garage is also a Beta player that hasn’t been out of its box for at least 25 years. I would like to see the video myself, and I’m sure it would mean a lot to the descendants of all the others involved. If I find the tape and the player, I don’t know what I will try in terms of risk or expense.

Several years ago a neighbor had her 90th birthday. The University of Illinois made 78rpm recordings of her senior voice recital and a scene from Aida and a Brahms solo. For my present, I borrowed the records and digitized them and then spent the whole summer working with the files. I bought a stylus just for that groove size. The records were in terrible shape. One disc looked like it had acne. I was surprised that the stylus would track it. I used two Macs simultaneously and four different pieces of software. I was obsessing over getting rid of as much noise as possible while losing no actual signal and trying to reproduce original tonal balance. I realized that I could spend the rest of my life cleaning it up, but fortunately the birthday deadline made me call it quits. I made CDs for her and each of her four children. I was told that following the big birthday party, the family headed out to the place on the lake that belongs to the son who was in from Australia. They decided to listen to the CD. It was quite an emotional experience, I was told. The recordings were from before anyone except had been born or even thought of. “Grandma, we didn’t know you could sing that amazingly well!” I had gone pretty far into that final 20%, more so than I thought possible when I started out. That probably didn’t matter to anyone but me.

In 2000 a friend from college days and I visited Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Budapest, and Prague. I took color slides. In 2020 I digitized some of the slides. They had not been stored in ideal conditions. Mostly the green layer had faded, so they have a prominent magenta cast. After much doctoring in Photoshop, I posted them on my web site, where I have pictures from my main trips from then through the present. I decided as a 20th anniversary keepsake, I would do a book. So I went to the book module in Lightroom and decided to do even more cleanup. I found the old split toning worked great, especially for getting the magenta cast out of pavement without messing anything else up. I spent more time cleaning up dust etc. in the sky, thinking they might show up more in print than they do on the web. I had Blurb print two copies and sent one to my friend. I purposely chose to undercorrect slightly the color balances, so they retain a bit of charm of old slides. Perhaps beyond that, there might have been more harm than good. The book turned out well. I got into the 20%, maybe half of it. There again the quality level was to suit me and really no one else. There are morals to each of these stories, but probably not worth plowing through them, I admit. Still of value to me to think back through.

 

[Kuja]

Maybe the simplest way that would not include computer at all, would be to use a standalone HDD/DVD recorder.

Just connect the video/audio cables from your camera to the inputs of the recorder and thats it.

On the recoders with the internal HDD you can edit your recordings and then "burn" the edited versions to recordable DVD-Rs.

If you need the files on your computer, you can "rip" the content of those DVDs.

I used to burn the files to rewriteable DVD-RWs on my HDD/DVD recorder, transfer them to my computer, erase the DVD-RWs, burn the next batch of videos and so on, thus saving the planet from plastic DVDs.

Maybe you could try to find a secondhand HDD/DVD recorder in a good working order?

Something like this:

 

[Jack Douglas]

As for the 80%-20% rule, my suspicion is that most of that 20% is not there to get. You may simulate some of it in post. De-interlacing will be part of the process anyway, and the quality of that will depend upon the algorithm more than the equipment. At the risk of rambling on (so you are warned you may not want to bother reading further), I will mention some of my analogous projects, anticipated or competed.

Somewhere in my garage is a Beta tape copy of a video I and two other guys made in 1984 for a church celebration. It dealt with the history of Methodist from its founding through the twelve churches in the northern part of the county from Colonial days, and of that church up to the then present. The original and all of the VHS copies have been lost, as far as I know. The other two guys who worked on it are deceased, as are all the older people in the congregation who were interviewed on camera in the closing third. Somewhere in my garage is also a Beta player that hasn’t been out of its box for at least 25 years. I would like to see the video myself, and I’m sure it would mean a lot to the descendants of all the others involved. If I find the tape and the player, I don’t know what I will try in terms of risk or expense.

Several years ago a neighbor had her 90th birthday. The University of Illinois made 78rpm recordings of her senior voice recital and a scene from Aida and a Brahms solo. For my present, I borrowed the records and digitized them and then spent the whole summer working with the files. I bought a stylus just for that groove size. The records were in terrible shape. One disc looked like it had acne. I was surprised that the stylus would track it. I used two Macs simultaneously and four different pieces of software. I was obsessing over getting rid of as much noise as possible while losing no actual signal and trying to reproduce original tonal balance. I realized that I could spend the rest of my life cleaning it up, but fortunately the birthday deadline made me call it quits. I made CDs for her and each of her four children. I was told that following the big birthday party, the family headed out to the place on the lake that belongs to the son who was in from Australia. They decided to listen to the CD. It was quite an emotional experience, I was told. The recordings were from before anyone except had been born or even thought of. “Grandma, we didn’t know you could sing that amazingly well!” I had gone pretty far into that final 20%, more so than I thought possible when I started out. That probably didn’t matter to anyone but me.

In 2000 a friend from college days and I visited Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Budapest, and Prague. I took color slides. In 2020 I digitized some of the slides. They had not been stored in ideal conditions. Mostly the green layer had faded, so they have a prominent magenta cast. After much doctoring in Photoshop, I posted them on my web site, where I have pictures from my main trips from then through the present. I decided as a 20th anniversary keepsake, I would do a book. So I went to the book module in Lightroom and decided to do even more cleanup. I found the old split toning worked great, especially for getting the magenta cast out of pavement without messing anything else up. I spent more time cleaning up dust etc. in the sky, thinking they might show up more in print than they do on the web. I had Blurb print two copies and sent one to my friend. I purposely chose to undercorrect slightly the color balances, so they retain a bit of charm of old slides. Perhaps beyond that, there might have been more harm than good. The book turned out well. I got into the 20%, maybe half of it. There again the quality level was to suit me and really no one else. There are morals to each of these stories, but probably not worth plowing through them, I admit. Still of value to me to think back through.

I can relate to all you say. In the end it is more for ones own personal satisfaction, especially when you've been taught, do all to the best of your ability. Both my parents were kind loving people. My mother was a "do it right" while my father was a "good enough" and you can guess who was dominant raising me.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

Maybe the simplest way that would not include computer at all, would be to use a standalone HDD/DVD recorder.

Just connect the video/audio cables from your camera to the inputs of the recorder and thats it.

On the recoders with the internal HDD you can edit your recordings and then "burn" the edited versions to recordable DVD-Rs.

If you need the files on your computer, you can "rip" the content of those DVDs.

I used to burn the files to rewriteable DVD-RWs on my HDD/DVD recorder, transfer them to my computer, erase the DVD-RWs, burn the next batch of videos and so on, thus saving the planet from plastic DVDs.

Maybe you could try to find a secondhand HDD/DVD recorder in a good working order?

Something like this:

Thanks for this suggestion. There are some for sale used based on a quick search of Kijiji but I'll have to now wrap my head around this new idea. Prices were not that high either.

Jack

 

[stevelee]

Thanks for this suggestion. There are some for sale used based on a quick search of Kijiji but I'll have to now wrap my head around this new idea. Prices were not that high either.

Jack

If you need to do substantial editing, how would that work? You just make DVDs, and do a lot of fast forwarding when you show it to people?

 

[Kuja]

If you need to do substantial editing, how would that work? You just make DVDs, and do a lot of fast forwarding when you show it to people?

Most HDD/DVD recorders have basic editing/trimming capabilities before burning the final DVDs.

 

[Kuja]

...Or you can copy the files from DVDs to a computer and use a simple and free program like Avidemux for editing and trimming.

 

[shire_guy]

I agree 100% but I really have to fight against my personality!

Jack

I understand your approach completely. I spent a lot of time 'editing' my tapes (benefit of being in lock-down) and I guess in hindsight I got more personal satisfaction then kudos.

Not sure if this is correct but so far I don't detect that someone has just now completed this process with X product using Win 10. Some of the suggested hardware is pretty dated such that Win 10 isn't even mentioned etc. and when Win 10 is mention in reviews it's often in a complaints context.

Jack

Not sure if this is meant to be a rhetorical question but I did my conversions in Sept 21 using Windows 10 on a DELL computer (16gb RAM).

For the approach I took, I did think that from the write ups that Elgato Video Capture was a good solution but looking back it was expensive and not in stock. I ended up buying from an on-line tech store that I had dealt with before. Obviously I can't guarantee anything but I used the Star Tech USB Video Capture Cable - S-Video or Composite (Part Id # SVID2USB232). The downside of this solution was the recording/editing software (Movavi) supplied used a file type (.mkv) that I could not open in the free version of DaVinci Resolve that I intended to use. I couldn't see that DaVinci would allow recording so that put paid to that idea. Also the Movavi software was Version 11, I think, and for some reason I updated to the current version which was Movavi Video Editor Plus 21.4.0. I can't recall the installation process for the hardware but I have attached a couple of pages from the manual. I can't give much feedback on the editing software due to my inexperience but it had a lot more features then I used but understand you have already have paid software. In total (incl. software upgrade) it would cost A$125 today.

Not saying this is the best approach for you but I was happy I got it to work. I have had a couple of failures probably about 15 yrs ago. I bought an expensive converter the size of a brick that just didn't work on my PC and bought a DVD recorder but couldn't get the output I wanted - maybe skill was lacking. Reading this blog I am wondering if I should have used a better cable but I guess I would always be limited by the cables on the converter. Anyway treat this as more info to help you to move forward to find the solution you want.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I understand your approach completely. I spent a lot of time 'editing' my tapes (benefit of being in lock-down) and I guess in hindsight I got more personal satisfaction then kudos.



Not sure if this is meant to be a rhetorical question but I did my conversions in Sept 21 using Windows 10 on a DELL computer (16gb RAM).

For the approach I took, I did think that from the write ups that Elgato Video Capture was a good solution but looking back it was expensive and not in stock. I ended up buying from an on-line tech store that I had dealt with before. Obviously I can't guarantee anything but I used the Star Tech USB Video Capture Cable - S-Video or Composite (Part Id # SVID2USB232). The downside of this solution was the recording/editing software (Movavi) supplied used a file type (.mkv) that I could not open in the free version of DaVinci Resolve that I intended to use. I couldn't see that DaVinci would allow recording so that put paid to that idea. Also the Movavi software was Version 11, I think, and for some reason I updated to the current version which was Movavi Video Editor Plus 21.4.0. I can't recall the installation process for the hardware but I have attached a couple of pages from the manual. I can't give much feedback on the editing software due to my inexperience but it had a lot more features then I used but understand you have already have paid software. In total (incl. software upgrade) it would cost A$125 today.

Not saying this is the best approach for you but I was happy I got it to work. I have had a couple of failures probably about 15 yrs ago. I bought an expensive converter the size of a brick that just didn't work on my PC and bought a DVD recorder but couldn't get the output I wanted - maybe skill was lacking. Reading this blog I am wondering if I should have used a better cable but I guess I would always be limited by the cables on the converter. Anyway treat this as more info to help you to move forward to find the solution you want.


View attachment 202277

Thanks I appreciate your help. I've looked at so many articles and comments that I'm not sure if anything I say is correct or accurate (overload). Sorry.

A friend tells me that he has a older card that he is going to try in his Win 10 computer and if he can get it working he'll pass it to me. So I'll wait for now.

Jack

 

[Kuja]

Just remember that, depending of the conditions of your tapes and your camcorder, you still might need a time base corrector.
Vast majority of computer video capture cards don't have the TBC included.
I mean, if the tapes are not in the perfect condition the use of TBC is mandatory, and if they are ok, the TBC will still significantly improve the quality of digitizing, as in the Youtube video I've posted earlier.

Here is the more extreme example, the capturing of this tape without the TBC would be impossible:

More examples...

I looked at the Kijiji site, there are people who are even renting Sony Digital8 camcorders, exactly for the purpose of digitizing old tapes:

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.

www.kijiji.ca

Digital8 camcorders have the TBC already included, so no problems there.

Maybe you could find or borrow some older computer or laptop with the firewire input?
Lots of them might be lying in the closets unused. I have two of them that I haven't turned on for years, but unfortunately we are living on different continents.
The firewire output from the Digital8 camcorder, would give you the same quality I got with my much more complicated setup.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Just remember that, depending of the conditions of your tapes and your camcorder, you still might need a time base corrector.
Vast majority of computer video capture cards don't have the TBC included.
I mean, if the tapes are not in the perfect condition the use of TBC is mandatory, and if they are ok, the TBC will still significantly improve the quality of digitizing, as in the Youtube video I've posted earlier.

Here is the more extreme example, the capturing of this tape without the TBC would be impossible:

More examples...

I looked at the Kijiji site, there are people who are even renting Sony Digital8 camcorders, exactly for the purpose of digitizing old tapes:

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.

www.kijiji.ca

Digital8 camcorders have the TBC already included, so no problems there.

Maybe you could find or borrow some older computer or laptop with the firewire input?
Lots of them might be lying in the closets unused. I have two of them that I haven't turned on for years, but unfortunately we are living on different continents.
The firewire output from the Digital8 camcorder, would give you the same quality I got with my much more complicated setup.

My good friend said, oh no I threw out that very camcorder last year. Now he's the one who is trying to get the computer capture card going for me. We'll see. Thanks very much for all the information!

Jack

 

[josephandrews222]

This very thread is why I enjoy my visits to this site--and with the pandemic I can occupy my brain a bit reading and learning about stuff I care about...once in a while I can make a contribution myself.

*In 1983 I purchased a Commodore 64 computer and monitor.

*In 1985 I purchased a Toshiba Beta Hi Fi VCR:
http://www.betamaxcollectors.com/toshibabetavcrmodelv-s443.html

*In June 1986 I bought a Sony CCD-V8AF-E (8mm camcorder): Camcorder A
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sony_CCD-V8AF_camcorder-CnAM_43583-IMG_5358-gradient.jpg

Our oldest daughter was born in July 1986...and with video from Camcorder A, I used the Commodore computer/monitor combination to build graphic transitions and constructed a 90 minute video to send to the grandparents. We kept the original Beta tape...long after the Toshiba Beta VCR shot craps.

*Sometime near the turn of the century I bought this: Canon ES6500V (Hi8 camcorder): Camcorder B
https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/8mmvc422.html

Camcorder A purchased in 1986 had gotten a bit finicky as far as playing 8mm tapes was concerned...and the 'Hi8' format used by the ES6500V (Camcorder B) promised better video but also was backwards-compatible with the tapes used by the Camcorder A.

*Then a couple of years later I bought this (smaller and digital): Canon Elura 40MC (MiniDV camcorder): Camcorder C
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...mcorders/support-minidv-camcorders/elura-40mc

*Camcorder C too began to act up, necessitating the purchase of yet another Canon camcorder in 2008: Canon Vixia HF100 (SD card-recording camcorder with HDMI out): Camcorder D.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...upport-high-definition-camcorders/vixia-hf100

The recordings from Camcorders A & B (8mm tapes) and Camcorder C (MiniDV tapes) were stored in a box...where they resided, along with the Beta tape made in 1986 documenting the first few days of our first daughter's life, some for literally decades.

I knew they needed to be digitized. But the activation energy for projects like that, to me, can be significant...

Then in 2016, my father-in-law died...the funeral was a few days after a previously-scheduled engagement that my wife had long looked forward to. The drive was long (several hours) and naturally talk of Grandpa Bob and his visits with our own children was one of the more pleasant discussion topics while in the car.

In particular, I had a recollection of one specific 10-15 minute video recorded just days after our oldest daughter was born, when Bob and his wife (my wife's parents) drove from IL to NY to visit their first grandchild. The memory made my wife joyful.

That was the kick in the pants I needed to get busy.

It is fun to read Jack Douglas wrestle with what I wrestled with a few years ago. I know he'll make it work.

The key thought is simply to get the analog material into your computer...to digitize it all.

As a previous poster in this thread noted, some camcorders of a certain vintage have the ability to accept an analog video and audio signal from another device (in our case, an 8mm camcorder) and digitize that analog signal and pass it along via Firewire (IEEE 1394) to a computer that has a Firewire port.

Camcorder C above fills the bill; and the Dell XPS 420 desktop computer I'm writing on now (now 13 years old) has the required Firewire port.

Software is needed to capture what comes into the computer via the Firewire port: WinDV freeware works great and is what I used.
https://www.videohelp.com/software/WinDV

The video (including audio) files that WinDV generates are .avi files.

Once you have the .avi files you're good to go.

The very best way to massage .avi files (and most video that I deal with) is Handbrake (freeware)...the learning curve isn't really that steep and I always learn something along the way.
https://handbrake.fr/downloads.php

=====

After getting up-and-running, it was about ten days worth of work to get the 30-40 tapes digitized. I didn't do much editing along the way--that's a whole 'nother kind of effort that requires a different mindset. But I did break up many of the tapes into the separate recordings that were present on each tape.

The beta tape from 1986 proved problematic (I had nothing to play it on and the local shop in my town couldn't play it either...I was worried they would damage it!)--so I sent it off to a company in Atlanta GA who charged 25 bucks or so to digitize it. The result was great.

=====

Key to this sort of project (at least to me) is figuring out how to get the files to family members in a way that they will be able to watch them on their own big screen TVs (not a smallish computer screen). Most folks don't have a home theater computer!

The Sony PS3/PS4 is a great way to accomplish this; the video files (in the proper format, made possible via Handbrake) are easily installed on the hard disk within the Sony device or can be copied to an appropriately-formatted external hard disk that is connected via USB. The Sony device sort of serves as a bridge between computers and standard televisions that people watch every day.

So both of our daughters have hours and hours of these videos on their Sony devices...and the results are much appreciated...particularly by boyfriends ( ).

=====

Along the same lines, I've made it my business to convert our collection of DVDs, BluRays and CDs into files that everyone can access if they wish. With the advent of streaming services and Apple Music etc, though, I think my efforts here have not been appreciated all that much.

On the other hand, I'm probably 80% finished organizing our digital jpegs and printed snapshots between the mid-1990s and today...with snapshots from the 1980s (some earlier) and 1990s yet to be digitized.

I do not have the negatives organized in any meaningful way...what I purchased to enable somewhat rapid digitization of the prints (a few of which are in albums) is the Epson FastFoto FF 680W.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/23436...personal-photo-scanner-now-available#comments
I have a decent 'workflow' with the Epson that enables scanning of hundreds of images per session; the quality of the scans is good enough my purposes.

And the software used to organize and post online [password protected] is something called jAlbum.
https://jalbum.net/en/

...currently at 31K images and counting.

Maybe someone will find this useful.

Me? I now have a place that includes a list of our camcorder purchases...and a reminder that literally a couple dozen of our Canon cameras (film, compact digital, and dSLR as well as mirrorless) are (fingers-crossed emoji) much more reliable than Canon's camcorders! Nearly all of the cameras still work!!

=====

A good link for inexpensive digitizing hardware and some advice if you don't own 'Camcorder C' (or one like it):

https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/digitize-vhs-tapes

Thanks for reading.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thanks, that's one more idea. Yes, RCA video out.

I have a similar setup that I used for some VHS to digital recently. It was made by Diamond. The software is a headache and getting the right settings requires experimenting.

If I were doing it again, I'd try one of the Clear Click devices. They do not require a PC, just connect video source and record to thumb drive. As with every product on earth, there are some annoyances I've noted in the reviews.

I doubt if one costs more than having the conversion done and when you are finished, you can sell it or keep it for a future need. They are more expensive than a Elgato or similar device but people seem to love them.

They make 3 models, the low end one to a 4K model. If just copying old camcorder ot vhs tapes, the base model works. If you want to stream from a digital camera, the high end will work with OBS on your computer to stream 4K from a 4K video camera. My R5 has software to do that, so no need for a device like this.

Video2Digital® Converter 2.0 (Second Generation) | Capture Video From VCR's, VHS Tapes, Hi8, Camcorder, DVD, & Gaming Systems - No Computer Required

Introducing the ClearClick Video2Digital Converter 2.0 (Second Generation).Need to turn that box of old video tapes or camcorder tapes that's sitting in your closet or basement into digital format?With the ClearClick Video To Digital Converter 2.0, you can transfer your videos to digital format...

www.clearclick.tech

 

[Jack Douglas]

This very thread is why I enjoy my visits to this site--and with the pandemic I can occupy my brain a bit reading and learning about stuff I care about...once in a while I can make a contribution myself.

*In 1983 I purchased a Commodore 64 computer and monitor.

*In 1985 I purchased a Toshiba Beta Hi Fi VCR:
http://www.betamaxcollectors.com/toshibabetavcrmodelv-s443.html

*In June 1986 I bought a Sony CCD-V8AF-E (8mm camcorder): Camcorder A
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sony_CCD-V8AF_camcorder-CnAM_43583-IMG_5358-gradient.jpg

Our oldest daughter was born in July 1986...and with video from Camcorder A, I used the Commodore computer/monitor combination to build graphic transitions and constructed a 90 minute video to send to the grandparents. We kept the original Beta tape...long after the Toshiba Beta VCR shot craps.

*Sometime near the turn of the century I bought this: Canon ES6500V (Hi8 camcorder): Camcorder B
https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/8mmvc422.html

Camcorder A purchased in 1986 had gotten a bit finicky as far as playing 8mm tapes was concerned...and the 'Hi8' format used by the ES6500V (Camcorder B) promised better video but also was backwards-compatible with the tapes used by the Camcorder A.

*Then a couple of years later I bought this (smaller and digital): Canon Elura 40MC (MiniDV camcorder): Camcorder C
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...mcorders/support-minidv-camcorders/elura-40mc

*Camcorder C too began to act up, necessitating the purchase of yet another Canon camcorder in 2008: Canon Vixia HF100 (SD card-recording camcorder with HDMI out): Camcorder D.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...upport-high-definition-camcorders/vixia-hf100

The recordings from Camcorders A & B (8mm tapes) and Camcorder C (MiniDV tapes) were stored in a box...where they resided, along with the Beta tape made in 1986 documenting the first few days of our first daughter's life, some for literally decades.

I knew they needed to be digitized. But the activation energy for projects like that, to me, can be significant...

Then in 2016, my father-in-law died...the funeral was a few days after a previously-scheduled engagement that my wife had long looked forward to. The drive was long (several hours) and naturally talk of Grandpa Bob and his visits with our own children was one of the more pleasant discussion topics while in the car.

In particular, I had a recollection of one specific 10-15 minute video recorded just days after our oldest daughter was born, when Bob and his wife (my wife's parents) drove from IL to NY to visit their first grandchild. The memory made my wife joyful.

That was the kick in the pants I needed to get busy.

It is fun to read Jack Douglas wrestle with what I wrestled with a few years ago. I know he'll make it work.

The key thought is simply to get the analog material into your computer...to digitize it all.

As a previous poster in this thread noted, some camcorders of a certain vintage have the ability to accept an analog video and audio signal from another device (in our case, an 8mm camcorder) and digitize that analog signal and pass it along via Firewire (IEEE 1394) to a computer that has a Firewire port.

Camcorder C above fills the bill; and the Dell XPS 420 desktop computer I'm writing on now (now 13 years old) has the required Firewire port.

Software is needed to capture what comes into the computer via the Firewire port: WinDV freeware works great and is what I used.
https://www.videohelp.com/software/WinDV

The video (including audio) files that WinDV generates are .avi files.

Once you have the .avi files you're good to go.

The very best way to massage .avi files (and most video that I deal with) is Handbrake (freeware)...the learning curve isn't really that steep and I always learn something along the way.
https://handbrake.fr/downloads.php

=====

After getting up-and-running, it was about ten days worth of work to get the 30-40 tapes digitized. I didn't do much editing along the way--that's a whole 'nother kind of effort that requires a different mindset. But I did break up many of the tapes into the separate recordings that were present on each tape.

The beta tape from 1986 proved problematic (I had nothing to play it on and the local shop in my town couldn't play it either...I was worried they would damage it!)--so I sent it off to a company in Atlanta GA who charged 25 bucks or so to digitize it. The result was great.

=====

Key to this sort of project (at least to me) is figuring out how to get the files to family members in a way that they will be able to watch them on their own big screen TVs (not a smallish computer screen). Most folks don't have a home theater computer!

The Sony PS3/PS4 is a great way to accomplish this; the video files (in the proper format, made possible via Handbrake) are easily installed on the hard disk within the Sony device or can be copied to an appropriately-formatted external hard disk that is connected via USB. The Sony device sort of serves as a bridge between computers and standard televisions that people watch every day.

So both of our daughters have hours and hours of these videos on their Sony devices...and the results are much appreciated...particularly by boyfriends ( ).

=====

Along the same lines, I've made it my business to convert our collection of DVDs, BluRays and CDs into files that everyone can access if they wish. With the advent of streaming services and Apple Music etc, though, I think my efforts here have not been appreciated all that much.

On the other hand, I'm probably 80% finished organizing our digital jpegs and printed snapshots between the mid-1990s and today...with snapshots from the 1980s (some earlier) and 1990s yet to be digitized.

I do not have the negatives organized in any meaningful way...what I purchased to enable somewhat rapid digitization of the prints (a few of which are in albums) is the Epson FastFoto FF 680W.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/23436...personal-photo-scanner-now-available#comments
I have a decent 'workflow' with the Epson that enables scanning of hundreds of images per session; the quality of the scans is good enough my purposes.

And the software used to organize and post online [password protected] is something called jAlbum.
https://jalbum.net/en/

...currently at 31K images and counting.

Maybe someone will find this useful.

Me? I now have a place that includes a list of our camcorder purchases...and a reminder that literally a couple dozen of our Canon cameras (film, compact digital, and dSLR as well as mirrorless) are (fingers-crossed emoji) much more reliable than Canon's camcorders! Nearly all of the cameras still work!!

=====

A good link for inexpensive digitizing hardware and some advice if you don't own 'Camcorder C' (or one like it):

https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/digitize-vhs-tapes

Thanks for reading.

Wow, it makes me a little tired reading the challenges but it puts hope in my heart. My fiend's throwaway would have been my lifesaver and he knew and was, like, oh no I threw out exactly what you needed and it had sat for ages and then I said I'll never use this and... I'm still waiting on him regarding the old computer capture card.

Thanks for writing this as it is an inspiration. My two oldest were 9 and 6 when we were in Machu Pichu and there is the only existing footage of my wife's mother holding their hands as we wandered through an ancient monastery in Arequipa, etc. etc. The video 8 and my Canon F1 were over my shoulders as I climbed way up where I was not supposed to go. So, this means a lot to me. The tapes and negatives need to be addressed ASAP, exactly as you describe. I would like to PM you as I move forward if you don't mind.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

I have a similar setup that I used for some VHS to digital recently. It was made by Diamond. The software is a headache and getting the right settings requires experimenting.

If I were doing it again, I'd try one of the Clear Click devices. They do not require a PC, just connect video source and record to thumb drive. As with every product on earth, there are some annoyances I've noted in the reviews.

I doubt if one costs more than having the conversion done and when you are finished, you can sell it or keep it for a future need. They are more expensive than a Elgato or similar device but people seem to love them.

They make 3 models, the low end one to a 4K model. If just copying old camcorder ot vhs tapes, the base model works. If you want to stream from a digital camera, the high end will work with OBS on your computer to stream 4K from a 4K video camera. My R5 has software to do that, so no need for a device like this.

Video2Digital® Converter 2.0 (Second Generation) | Capture Video From VCR's, VHS Tapes, Hi8, Camcorder, DVD, & Gaming Systems - No Computer Required

Introducing the ClearClick Video2Digital Converter 2.0 (Second Generation).Need to turn that box of old video tapes or camcorder tapes that's sitting in your closet or basement into digital format?With the ClearClick Video To Digital Converter 2.0, you can transfer your videos to digital format...

www.clearclick.tech

It's $230 CAD Amazon but that is no problem as long as it does a good job. So that's another option I'll consider. Thanks.

Jack

 

[Joules]

It's $230 CAD Amazon but that is no problem as long as it does a good job. So that's another option I'll consider. Thanks.

Jack

I don't know if you stumbled across it yet, but I found this video quite nice for comparing the Click vs the Elgato:

To me, the Elgato gives a more appropriate view of the original footage.

Also, I want to thank you for bringing up the topic. It gave me the push needed to getting back into digitizing my remaining VHS tapes.

Although it also did rekindle the same question of quality against investment that you struggled with. Dissatisfied with the information on the internet, I just decided to buy the Elgato and also get myself an S-Video adapter and cable, since my VCR has a scart output and I believed it might be capable of S-Video output perhaps.

The purchase of the Elgato Video Grabber is a definite upgrade over my previous CSL Video Grabber USB device. It applies less oversharpening and less saturation, but this leads to a far more natural image in my eyes. It also seems to suppress artifacts better.

This is over a composite connection.

The S-Video connection purchase seems to have been a waste of money so far. I actually do get a picture, but it shows a constant pattern of diagonal across the image. From what I gather, this is to be expected when using an output device that does not actually support this output type.

So I asked a few older relatives if they perhaps still have some devices around to play back VHS, so that I could compare them to mine and perhaps one would support S-Video. But it looks like most have eliminated their dated hardware.

I'm somewhat busy currently, but I'll post some side by side pictures of my results once I get to it.

 

[MythPlayer]

Does the 8mm player (or camera) have an S-video out? That should give better quality than the RCA video out, as I recall.

Not all, Only Hi8 or Digital8 camera/VCR does have S-video Out