Let’s talk about those Canon EOS RS/R5 specifications

[richperson]

What kinda unicorn bu.... Well, some of this is possible but I just don’t expect this out of Canon. The 1DX 3 doesn’t even do 4K 120 so why put that in this? Who’s been asking for 4K 120?

I would expect the Digic X is repurposed in an R5, so that it has a smaller buffer from the unlimited 1DXiii buffer, but can handle larger images with a smaller buffer, which works for an R5, but would not be good with a 1DXiii.

 

[IcyBergs]

More rumor-porn than I can handle in one week...make it stop

 

[ahsanford]

I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.

But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.

Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.

One might argue the 5DS needs more attention than the 5D# line, though.

Forget adding new stuff like IBIS -- the 5DS/5DSR presently lacks:

• Newer sensor archtitecture with a greater lattiude at lower ISO --> one might consider that a really big deal for studio or tripod landscape work
• A tilty-flippy --> which might come in handy for the landscapers out there.
• DPAF + touchscreen for LiveView if not video.

What I can't tell is if a super high res camera (vs. market, vs. rest of the Canon portfolio) is a 5-series regular offering on a 4-ish year timeline... or if it's a 7-series 'we'll get to it when we get to it' sort of product line.

If it's the former, a 5DS2 and/or equivalent in mirrorless should come next.

If it's the latter, a 5D5 and/or mirrorless equivalent should come next.

- A

 

[Trey T]

if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent

 

[amorse]

I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.

But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.

Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.

Honestly, I'm half betting they come at the same time or nearly at the same time. The 5DsR series is 5 years old now without a refresh, which is longer than the typical refresh cycle for the 1D or 5D series, so it is due for an update. With that said, I can't imagine the 5Ds series could hold a candle in sales numbers to the 1D or 5D series, so it makes complete sense for this body to share as many parts as feasible with the 5D series RF camera coming - similar to the EOS R vs Ra: if all you're changing is the sensor, then your manufacturing costs will be more manageable. The replacement for the 5DIV must be close too - it hits the 4 years since announcement mark in August, and Canon has seemed to avoid refreshing on longer time scales than that over the last iterations of the 5D.

No doubt the masses are clamouring for a 5D equivalent mirrorless more than a 5DsR mirrorless, but if they're going to be largely the same camera and the 5DsR is longer in the tooth, I could see them updating both quickly. Also, Canon held off on dropping the price on the 5Ds and 5DsR until relatively recently - I see that as a sign something's coming soon, right or wrong.

Based on the rumour, I'm on the fence as to what I'd choose - the rumoured 40-45MP body vs 65-85MP body with much lower performance in other areas. I can see a home for either of those niches in my bag.

 

[neurorx]

Do we think the high MP R camera will come out later? These specifications seem more like a 5DM IV next step. If this camera has the focus system of the 1DX3, ISO performance/dynamic range at least at 5D IV level, it will be amazing. Crossing my fingers!

 

[ahsanford]

if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent

That's a bit much. I see a pro control set with the thumb wheel as a way for Canon to argue for 'pro FF' $3k for a mirrorless 5D.

That doesn't instantly devalue what the R and RP do today. They still are FF cameras that can do some impressive things.

- A

 

[mpmark]

I think we need to look at this in a simple way, Canon needs to fill 3 major camera types with new replacement hardware as all these are due for updates and/or replacements as they are all 4+ years old.

7Dii - crop sensor, fast birding camera
5Div - all round full frame camera
5Ds - high MP camera for landscape/portrait

So it looks like they will be releasing this in the new R platform, which one of these fits the rumors best? So far the 5Div, which for me is great news. The 7Dii also needs to be replaced and of course the 5Ds line as well. I think all these HAVE to come this year, the current line is quite old and Canon is losing customers or patience of users that own these cameras slowly to other manufactures so they need to deliver solutions this year. As mentioned in a R line system.

 

[addola]

8K timelapse video makes sense. We had seen 4K timelaps being introduced few years ago, so having 8K timelapse being introduced is plausible.

4K/120fp with a 1:1 crop on a 40-45 MP sensor means a heavy factor of x2 to x2.15, and maybe they would only do it in IBP or maybe only produce a baked-in video file that is slowed down to 24 or 30fps

 

[reefroamer]

CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.

That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.

• Tell us it's 45 x 10 and it's the next 5D5, it would be plausible.
• Tell us it's a gripped 1-series mirrorless with IBIS and 24 x 20, it would entirely be plausible.
• Tell us it's as-the-rumor-specs-it and it will be a new series even more pricey/prestigious than the 1-series (a 0-series?!) and it becomes I guess vaguely more plausible. (Seems like a $10k body to me, though.)

But as spec'd. No. Still not buying this rumor.

- A

*I recognize a 1-series is much more than pure horsepower specs, and we've seen 5-series outdo 1-series on the odd spec or new feature in the past ...but this rumored list is simply ridiculous.

Canon isn’t locked into their current product segmentation. It’s always a shifting target.

 

[amorse]

if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent

It would certainly be a lot lower than the newly released bodies, but I think Rebel equivalent is a bit too low. I would bet the launch price of these new rumoured bodies will be well and above the launch price of the R and RP, likely much closer to the launch price of the 5D IV if not higher.

Also, holding back a feature on a new body in order to preserve the position of older bodies sounds like a bad idea. Even if the new rumoured specs are real, a discounted R would be an awesome cheaper(ish) backup to any of these cameras.

 

[Go Wild]

People still think that the new rumored EOS R can compete or make the 1dxIII lose sales. I disagree. Don´t forget that the 1dx is a segmented camera for some photographers, specially sports photographers or photojournalists. The news agencies and serious sports photographers will buy the 1dxIII with no second thoughts. They need the speed, and not only the frames speed. They need speed of communication. The video specs on the 1dx mkIII are a plus to the camera. They put it to make the best camera possible and to attract some videographers that like/need robust bodies with the best of the bests weather sealing. Most of this clients will never considerate a mirrorless camera like these ones that are coming. Are you thinking that a sports photographer will buy this new camera? No way! Also, I don´t think this new mirrorless to have the same AF sistem of the 1dxIII making this feature an exclusive of the 1D series. It can have great AF but not the same! Canon did the same with the 7D mkII.

The new camera (let´s call EOS Rs) can really make a difference in creative videographers that like/want smaller bodies and dont care so much having the best weather sealing. They can also make some wildlife photographers not to buy the 1dxIII and buy instead this one. But they are a small fragment of the 1dxIII buyers. This camera is more aimed to landscape, studio, weddings, and wildlife if you can live with smaller fps.
If this camera has some serious video specs like 1dxIII and serious still features it can make some people to choose this one.

Sooo, regarding to the camera....this looks promising! I can live quite well with a cropped 4k@120fps! 8k timelapse would be fantastic. And having 4k 10bit 4:2:2 would be quite perfect! To be honest less than this would make a lot of people (from video side) to lose interest in the camera...Hope Canon maintain the 1dxIII codec and give in this one the HEVC H265 (Woudn´t make any sense if not!)

From stills perspective, i expect a less capable AF camera comparing to 1dxIII but still with same great AF! Expect between 7 and 12 FPS and I expect also CFexpress. It just wouldn´t make any sense not to equip the camera with CFexpress after they public say that this sistem is the future!

Hope camera will have also HEIF! I would love also to see in the camera a back button focus like the 1dxIII it seems very promising feature!
In general, if the camera is something around this, Canon will have my money. Ohhh....I expect also some improvement in the EVF, that would be good.
Ohh boy....2020 is going to be painfull to my pockets!

 

[Del Paso]

I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.

But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.

Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.

Sorry to contradict you, but for me, IBIS would make a lot of sense.
I never carry a tripod up a mountain, so, especially in a twilight situation, or for handheld small -aperture macro shots, I'd really appreciate having in-body stabilization. Also, I'm using lots of vintage lenses. My first "real" camera was a Leica M, and a Leica M on a tripod is kind of a self-contradiction...that's how a habit develops. Even my TSE 24mm gets used hand-held.
So you see, 2 contradicting points of view, and both are valid, yours and (I hope), mine.

 

[reefroamer]

I think we need to look at this in a simple way, Canon needs to fill 3 major camera types with new replacement hardware as all these are due for updates and/or replacements as they are all 4+ years old.

7Dii - crop sensor, fast birding camera
5Div - all round full frame camera
5Ds - high MP camera for landscape/portrait

So it looks like they will be releasing this in the new R platform, which one of these fits the rumors best? So far the 5Div, which for me is great news. The 7Dii also needs to be replaced and of course the 5Ds line as well. I think all these HAVE to come this year, the current line is quite old and Canon is losing customers or patience of users that own these cameras slowly to other manufactures so they need to deliver solutions this year. As mentioned in a R line system.

You assume that Canon will replace and enhance its current products. I would say not necessarily. Product segmentation shifts with the market and changes constantly. Competition and technology change. Considers today’s demand for video in digital cameras. Anyway, it’s still very possible that they Continue in a straight line from today’s lineup.

 

[amorse]

People still think that the new rumored EOS R can compete or make the 1dxIII lose sales. I disagree. Don´t forget that the 1dx is a segmented camera for some photographers, specially sports photographers or photojournalists. The news agencies and serious sports photographers will buy the 1dxIII with no second thoughts. They need the speed, and not only the frames speed. They need speed of communication. The video specs on the 1dx mkIII are a plus to the camera. They put it to make the best camera possible and to attract some videographers that like/need robust bodies with the best of the bests weather sealing. Most of this clients will never considerate a mirrorless camera like these ones that are coming. Are you thinking that a sports photographer will buy this new camera? No way! Also, I don´t think this new mirrorless to have the same AF sistem of the 1dxIII making this feature an exclusive of the 1D series. It can have great AF but not the same! Canon did the same with the 7D mkII.

I don't think this camera would eliminate sales of the 1DXIII, nor do I think a whole lot of sports photographers would switch over, but I do think some users might. There will be no wholesale migration from the 1DX series.

BUT, there are always people who have historically purchased more camera than they need because they're after one feature, i.e. burst rate. If we look at Canon's full frame offerings on the market right now, the fastest burst rate you can get without going to a 1DX series body is 7fps on a 5D IV. Now the 1DX III will get you up to 20 fps in live view, so there's a considerable gap in performance in the line at the moment. I would bet that there is a subset of 1DX users who wanted only a solid burst rate and reasonable low light sensitivity, and the rest of the features may be overkill for their need. I could see them moving down, but who knows how many people that would equate to.

In addition, there have been those expressing frustration that the 1DX III didn't move up in resolution. Getting 14 fps on a 40-45MP body would very likely be tempting for wildlife shooters who are going to be limited on how close they can get/what lens they happen to have ready to go. I mean, resolution has its place in wildlife photography as well - some users on this forum take incredible images of BIF using a 5Ds/sR series body despite the frame rate.

 

[BillB]

One might argue the 5DS needs more attention than the 5D# line, though.

Forget adding new stuff like IBIS -- the 5DS/5DSR presently lacks:

• Newer sensor archtitecture with a greater lattiude at lower ISO --> one might consider that a really big deal for studio or tripod landscape work
• A tilty-flippy --> which might come in handy for the landscapers out there.
• DPAF + touchscreen for LiveView if not video.

What I can't tell is if a super high res camera (vs. market, vs. rest of the Canon portfolio) is a 5-series regular offering on a 4-ish year timeline... or if it's a 7-series 'we'll get to it when we get to it' sort of product line.

If it's the former, a 5DS2 and/or equivalent in mirrorless should come next.

If it's the latter, a 5D5 and/or mirrorless equivalent should come next.

- A

With major sensor and processor upgrades, plus the need to refine EVF technology and firmware , I wonder whether Canon is paying much attention to historical update cycles. It may be more a question of how soon Canon can get a rock solid product out the door. In terms of market priorities, my guess is that the 5DV mirrorless market is a much bigger deal than the high res market. From a technical point of view the high res version may be less challenging than a mirrorless replacement for the 5DIV.

 

[tron]

That's a bit much. I see a pro control set with the thumb wheel as a way for Canon to argue for 'pro FF' $3k for a mirrorless 5D.

That doesn't instantly devalue what the R and RP do today. They still are FF cameras that can do some impressive things.

- A

Plus, they have a different form of back wheel. It is just positioned differently. For example we can still control shutter and aperture separately using one finger for each.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.

But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.

Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.

I suspect a modern 45 MP sensor with DPAF and possibly IBIS based multisampling will compare very favorably with the 5DSR. Then, after Canon sells a bunch of those, they can bring out the enhanced high MP version. Canon knows how to sell cameras.

Edit. Before Digic X it didn’t seem like the processing was there for a high speed camera hence the acceptance of the slow FR high MP rumor. Canon might have been doing their homework.

Edit 2. It’s also possible that canon looked at the ultra high MP sensor and decided it wasn’t achieving any significant additional benefit. Sony and Panasonic/Tower Jazz both settled on the mid forties for their high Rez offerings. Maybe that is the sweet spot. I have no reason to believe they couldn’t have gone higher if they wanted to.

 

[docsmith]

My biggest question mark with this new camera is going to be about how good is the autofocus. How fast? How accurate? I am impressed with what I've seen about the latest R firmware. I am hearing good things. I have been testing the M6II for some BIF. It is pretty good, but I still am preferring my 5DIV.

But, assuming the specs mean something in the vicinity of:

• 40-45 MP
• ~12 fps max burst rate
• Slight (~1/3 to 1/2 stop) sensor improvement (eg similar to M6II vs M6)
• Good weathersealing/ergonomics

If that camera has good AF, that is a real show stopper. After some recent shoots, I have been reminding myself how good the 5DIV really is and thinking I may stay DSLR for awhile. But, 40-45 MP at ~12 fps would be such an exceptional camera, especially for something like wildlife.....If the AF is worthy.

As for video, if that makes others happy, great. I shoot FHD, 30 fps. So, you know, I was set in 2012.

 

[dwarven]

Where's the RF lens news