Update – Canon EOS R5 Mark II Specifications

The R3 does seem good for you. If you want an R1, why not wait until the R1 is cheaper down the road?
I don't see the 1 series bodies ever get the big discounts the other ones do. Maybe in the used market they do. But yeah its a possibility to wait. I have about 2-3 years left of my kid in highschool playing soccer, so would be nice to capture that though.

Brian
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
4.3ms is rather slow considering the Z8/Z9 are at 3.73ms released over a year ago.
The actual readout-speed of the R3 has to be faster than 5,12ms because that's the minimum required for the 195fps high-speed-burst of the R3.
If the rumors of a 30% improvement are true that would put the R5 II below 4ms and very close to the Z8/Z9 and would allow a sync-speed of at least 1/250th.

However, considering the fact that Canon choose to stick with a mechanical shutter (other than Nikon) I have my doubts about that and believe that the R5 II will still be slower in full-ES (or have some other caveats like only 12/13bit raw) which would make the mechanical shutter still necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
I think the number I have is related to video, because they specifically mentioned that it's faster than the R3.

I shall look to see if there's a consistent correlation between ES and video numbers.
This is how photo vs highest res video compare with recent models (I will consider a measurement error of 1 ms because of some small inconsistences with the source of the values I am getting, so approximative values):
R3: 5 ms (14 bit) - 10 ms
R5: 17 ms (12 bit) - 16 ms
R6ii: 14 ms (12 bit) - 14 ms
R6: 20 ms (12 bit) - 30 ms

a1: 4 ms (14 bit) - 15 ms
a9: 6 ms (12 bit?) - 23 ms
Z9: 4 ms (14 bit?) - 15 ms
a7s3: 20 ms (14 bit) - 9 ms
a7iv: 67 ms (14 bit) - 27 ms

What we know: going from 14 bit to 12 bit halves your readout time (this is shown with Sony cameras that have ES modes for both 14 and 12 bit). Video is usually read at 12 bit (X-H2s has a mode that is an exception here... don't believe in Sony when they talk about 16 bit video with their hybrid cameras).

So, we can see that most cameras use their fastest readout in photo mode while they slow down in video. For these I selected there, R3, R6, a1, a9 and Z9 fall into this category. The stacked sensor cameras there are interesting cases because they shoot 14 bit, meaning that, in theory, if they shot 12 bit they could be even faster in photo mode (I don't know if there is any other factor limiting it).

When it comes to the other cameras, they seem to mostly match their video and photo (at 12 bit) speeds. a7iv and a7s3 have half the readout speed in photo when compared to video, but those measurements are from 14 bit modes (it's the mode available for Sony cameras when they shoot single shot).

R6 is a particular case that has a relatively fast readout in photo for a non-stacked sensor camera of its time, but very slow in video (PS.: 30 ms is the bare minimum needed to shoot 30 fps video, in fact this is the reason the a7rv cannot shoot 8K in 30 fps, its readout speed is at around 40 ms in 8K, which limits it to 24 fps). My guesses here lay on heat management. I believe the manufactures limit the readout speed in video to avoid overheating. The case of the R6 enforces this idea, because it's a camera that suffers with overheat even at 4K 24 fps. In fact, the R6 is able to do "full sensor" (actually 1.06 crop) readout in 60 fps with about 15 ms - considering the small crop plus 16:9 video crop. I believe here Canon forced through the heating limitation to be able to offer full sensor readout 4K60, knowing that it would overheat even faster. They could've done the same for 4K24/30 but decided against it because it would have even stricter limitations in its most important video mode.

In summary, I believe that video readout speed doesn't tell the whole story - there seems to be other bottlenecks besides how fast the sensor can be read during video, bottlenecks that manufacturers need to take into account before they decide limitations there. So if the R5ii has a readout speed 30% faster than the R3 in video, this would mean 7 ms RS, in video (this is exactly how much you need to allow full sensor readout at 120 fps btw). For photo, this only tells us that it is at least 7 ms for 12 bit, or 14 ms in 14 bit, but it can be anything faster than that. So, we cannot draw any conclusion about its photo RS.


For these who are not familiar with the math, the fps vs RS requirement works like this: to shoot X fps, you need to read the sensor in at least 1/X seconds. So, for 30 fps = 1/30 = 0.033s = 33 ms. 60 fps = 1/60 = 16.7 ms. 120 fps = 1/120 = 8.3ms. The a7rv has about 40 ms of RS in 8K, so it cannot reach the necessary speed to shoot 8K30, hence it is limited to 24 fps in 8K. The a7siii is just a tad too slow to reach full sensor readout at 4K120, hence it has a small crop to be able to get there.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Upvote 0
it's clear to see that once the R1 is rolling and we have a much improved R5II- then there probably isn't going to be a demand for an R3,
There still seems to be demand for the a9 III even though there is an a1.
There is still demand for the R6 II even though there is an R5.
There is still demand for the R10 even though there is an R7.
The point being that there is room for many cameras in a lineup.
 
Upvote 0
"……but have to be a bit vague and not divulge exact claimed numbers."
So detailed specifications are already revealed and it looks like our canonrumors guy got a gag order.
In a word, R5M2 is on its way! In the meantime I'm looking forward to more news about a possible R6M3 next.
The leaked R1 registration number does not line up with the numbers of the three reported registered cameras.
That would mean there are at least four coming and there could be even more that we do not know about.
 
Upvote 0
Did Canon ever release a camera with a vertical-framing grip that wasn't a 1, until the R3?

It's possible they wanted to release a pro body, and didn't feel they had the technology ready to release something called a 1 at that point. Remember Covid was a headache for everyone and screwed up everything in those times. So they decided to do like they did with the EOS-3 around 1999, make a tweeny between the two normal steps.

So it seems some are thinking the R3 was literally going to be labeled R1, then at the last second they realized it wouldn't stack up and ran up a lot of R3 badging and did a global search and replace in the documentation. I don't think anyone can disprove that, or prove that (no photo of a trash can full of R1 badges has shown up by now so such proof probably doesn't exist) but it's not the only possibility.

What's also a possibility is that they had something grander in mind for R1, that required things that they saw simply wouldn't be ready, perhaps AI-related. (The idea of figuring out which player is nearest a ball and focusing on that person for instance. Or are any cameras able to be shown "Trump" and know to focus on "Trump" or similar? Or the sensor they patented around 2020 that would have no rolling shutter, electronic ND and a mode to double DR.) (I still expect there are things about the coming R1 that are under-rumored because they're too hard to explain, like this.) (And the issue may have been their internal R&D, or perhaps, CPU from vendor that could actually run the software fast enough, etc.) Anyway, they might have realized in late 2020 that there was really no hope of getting their planned feature set complete, and therefore went back a half-step to R3 to make a camera that many pros would love. In other words, the R3 may not be a camera they were planning on calling an R1, but rather, a back-up plan if they couldn't get all the features they wanted for an R1.
Quote: "Or are any cameras able to be shown "Trump" and know to focus on "Trump"
The only good reason not to buy such a Canon...;)
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0
For me these specs are close enough to the Z8 and A1 to be pretty much what I was hoping it would be. Let's hope the final specs are relatively close to what we see here. The big question for me is going to be around the 30 fps shooting. If the R5 II can do 30 fps electronic shutter (silent) raw images with a reasonable buffer then it seems like it will be positioned a bit higher in price than the Z8. Just hope Canon doesn't up the prices close to the A1. If it is "reasonably" affordable then I'm looking forward to finally getting a stacked sensor camera as I can't afford the A1 and already have two sets of lenses (Canon and Sony) and am not wanting to get a third for a Z8. As usual, can't wait to see the real thing.
 
Upvote 0
I think Canon's definition of "Pro" is very different to what the market for "Pro" is. In Canon's thinking it really means "press or agency photographer" not landscape, wedding, photojornalist, wildlife, portraiture, studio etc photographer.
The press / agency photograper is 1D/R3 all the way, all day long. One cam per lens covering the range of 11mm through to 300-600mm. However all the other photograpers are better served with 5D/R5/R6 cams and they are in more hands of professional photographers than the 1D/R3 series.
Yes, totally agreed. Even if you never drop them, you still want that metal chassis as they're constantly banging into each other as you run.

If I was shooting landscape while doing pretty rough camping I'd want the "pro" build though if it was landscape or wildlife from the side of the road I'd prefer a 5.

And so with your definition I can re-state my point more concisely: the point of the R3 was that they wanted a press/agency body even if it wasn't going to be the camera-redefining 1. Often they haven't NEEDED a press/agency camera that wasn't a 1, but in this case either (I personally think more likely) the features they wanted just couldn't be finished or supplied in time, or (also a possibility) the R3 WAS meant to be called the 1 but the competition's improvements meant there wouldn't be enough wow factor to deserve the name.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
There still seems to be demand for the a9 III even though there is an a1.
There is still demand for the R6 II even though there is an R5.
There is still demand for the R10 even though there is an R7.
The point being that there is room for many cameras in a lineup.
Agree!
There's also the expected important price difference between the R1 and the R3.
$1500-2000? Or more?
So, there's room for both cameras in Canon's lineup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
I predict 12-bit vs 14-bit and a few other corners cut.
I doubt that the R5 II will only do 12-bit in ES. Because then the only real improvement in terms sensor-specs would be the marginal speed increase from 20 to 30 fps over the mark I. That would be really disappointing for a switch from a FSI to a stacked-sensor.

My wild guess would rather be:
The R5 II will do 14-bit RAW, however the actual readout speed will be more in the region of 7-8ms, which still would be double the speed of the mark I.
This would explain why Canon is holding on to the mechanical shutter and even go in line with the rumors, if you assume that the source mixed up the video vs stills speed of the R3 (which would be 9.5ms so 7.3ms would mean a 30% improvement).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0