More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

[Canon Rumors Guy]

<p>The first thing people have noticed is the maximum ISO of 6400 for both the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R.</p>
<p>We’re told this is because of a much stronger CFA which will produce much greater color accuracy than anything currently in the Canon lineup.</p>
<p>The EOS 5D Mark IV will be the camera geared to sensitivity and lowlight performance and we will see one sometime in 2015.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[PureClassA]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

So this really is a straight up studio and landscape camera.... Interesting.

 

[danski0224]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I have read more than once that high ISO ability takes something away from low ISO- you can't have both with current technology.

So, if Canon tuned this for low ISO, it should be great.

 

[dolina]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

So there will be a 5Ds, 5Ds R and 5D Mark IV?

 

[torger]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

That's really interesting. A claimed advantage of medium format digital cameras have been that they have color-optimized CFAs rather than high ISO, it would be awesome if this sensor has taken the same type of optimization.

I think a 50 megapixel camera for sure should be optimized at high resolution use cases, rather than trying to be a hand-held low light action camera.

 

[jaayres20]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

So how does the Color Filter change the ISO sensitivity? Just as long as I can get usable images at ISO 6400 then I am good. I hardly ever go above that, and if I need to I can utilize my 1DX.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

So how does the Color Filter change the ISO sensitivity? Just as long as I can get usable images at ISO 6400 then I am good. I hardly ever go above that, and if I need to I can utilize my 1DX.

I imagine stronger (darker) tinting on the filter lets in less light, but the color is more pure.

 

[Jesse]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Ugh so I'm gonna have to buy two cameras this year? One for portraiture and one for events?

NOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Orangutan]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Not once have I read someone complain about colour accuracy when shooting birds or sport.

I've seen mention of it for those situations, though more with human skin tone. I think the reason it's not common with birds and sports is that there are other factors which have a greater influence on the image quality of the final product. It doesn't matter how perfect the color (or DR), a blurry photo of the winning score is still just fodder for the bit-bucket.

 

[torger]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Not once have I read someone complain about colour accuracy when shooting birds or sport.

No, it's a medium format thing, on medium format forums these kind of very subtle and subjective color issues are discussed at length.

I can guarantee that it's a very small difference in the CFA, and it does not limit high ISO that much. Capping it at ISO6400 is probably more about differntiating their own products than that the sensor is really limited. It could be that the real fact is that they aim this camera to be a studio/landscape/architecture camera and people that care about utmost image quality and color and then you don't use high ISO much, and that fact has been transformed to this type of rumor.

Pentax 645z is a MF camera that is said to have CFA optimised for color accuracy and it also happens to have ISO 204800

 

[Floydian]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Who cares what kind of sensor is inside, i want maximum quality. Sony, Canon, i don't care at all. I'm a landscaper, i'm also not interested in a fast gun. High iso, yes nice, but only when it's usable, i have nothing on 12.600 images when i can't use it use. Superb 3200 would already be something to shoot northern lights.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

<p>The first thing people have noticed is the maximum ISO of 6400 for both the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R.</p>
<p>We’re told this is because of a much stronger CFA which will produce much greater color accuracy than anything currently in the Canon lineup.</p>
<p>The EOS 5D Mark IV will be the camera geared to sensitivity and lowlight performance and we will see one sometime in 2015.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

last summer you reported that canon was field testing in a NYC studio a new camera - and the color accuracy was commented on being better. (thus starting all the fovean rumors)

is it safe to say this was the sensor they were testing out?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/05/new-full-frame-camera-in-testing-cr1-2/

 

[Marsu42]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

The first thing people have noticed is the maximum ISO of 6400 for both the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R.

Most likely this is mostly due to marketing considerations to keep on selling two camera bodies - the high res and a "low light".

But it doesn't make any difference as on the current ff cameras, iso 6400 is the highest setting anyway and everything above is (mostly) digitally amplified, so you can just shoot raw and underexpose. In any case, maybe Magic Lantern can "unlock" higher iso values if there's demand, we'll see.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

The first thing people have noticed is the maximum ISO of 6400 for both the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R.

Most likely this is mostly due to marketing considerations to keep on selling two camera bodies - the high res and a "low light".

But it doesn't make any difference as on the current ff cameras, iso 6400 is the highest setting anyway and everything above is (mostly) digitally amplified, so you can just shoot raw and underexpose. In any case, maybe Magic Lantern can "unlock" higher iso values if there's demand, we'll see.

if they are based upon EXMOR design and are close to ISOless - then it really doesn't matter.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

I suspect this camera is going to under-spec but outperform the D810, and performance at ISO 100 is what matters to me. More than a few times I took a hard look at the D800. Canon glass kept me in place, not because of investment but because of the EF mount and Canon's consistent forward progress with lenses. When I started shooting full frame, Nikon didn't even have a line of pro-grade fixed f/4 lenses. Nikon caught up option-wise, but I see the EF mount as more capable of handling the advanced lens designs necessary for digital 35mm to bridge the gap to medium format.

 

[Diko]

Colou

Can't wait to see sample images and sensitivity comparisons...

That's really interesting. A claimed advantage of medium format digital cameras have been that they have color-optimized CFAs rather than high ISO, it would be awesome if this sensor has taken the same type of optimization.

I think a 50 megapixel camera for sure should be optimized at high resolution use cases, rather than trying to be a hand-held low light action camera.

Actually NO! The trend with MF is to optimize the ISO availability ;-)

A plea to the more knowledgeable people here:
Could you please enlighten me why Canon is going for colour that actually eye perception is UNABLE to differentiate? Or I misunderstood it?

 

[torger]

Re: Colou

Can't wait to see sample images and sensitivity comparisons...

Actually NO! The trend with MF is to optimize the ISO availability ;-)

A plea to the more knowledgeable people here:
Could you please enlighten me why Canon is going for colour that actually eye perception is UNABLE to differentiate? Or I misunderstood it?

You can read this about the Phase One IQ250

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/the_phase_one_iq250_cmos_fully_realized.shtml

quoting the section on the CFA:

"As one example, the selection of a CFA, the color pattern put in front of the sensor, is a choice between quality of color, and ISO performance. If the CFA allows each pixel to see a broader spectrum of color (e.g. for the green pixels to see a bit further into yellow) a camera’s ISO range can be modestly increased. The resulting loss in color quality is subtle – subtle variations in color are missed and a handful of specific colors become difficult to photograph. In a market where a ISO 25,600 camera has a leg up on a ISO12,800 camera, the engineers are under enormous pressure to pick the modestly increased ISO over subtle color quality."

The trend of going to more ISO in MF is because CMOS has become available just recently. The olde CCD tech was just not capable. Still The IQ250 is capped at ISO6400.

Stay at MF-oriented forums for a while. Color is a big thing there. What's real and what's imagined differences is harder to understand, but even microscopic differences are important to that kind of users. So if you want to get good credibility in those circles this kind of optimization, regardless of how subtle it is, is valuable.

 

[Zv]

Re: More About the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R

Ugh so I'm gonna have to buy two cameras this year? One for portraiture and one for events?

NOOOOOOOOOO

You already have one for events. Did your 5D3 suddenly become useless?

 

[Diko]

Re: Colou

....
"As one example, the selection of a CFA, the color pattern put in front of the sensor, is a choice between quality of color, and ISO performance. If the CFA allows each pixel to see a broader spectrum of color (e.g. for the green pixels to see a bit further into yellow) a camera’s ISO range can be modestly increased. The resulting loss in color quality is subtle – subtle variations in color are missed and a handful of specific colors become difficult to photograph. In a market where a ISO 25,600 camera has a leg up on a ISO12,800 camera, the engineers are under enormous pressure to pick the modestly increased ISO over subtle color quality."
....

Thanks for the INFO. But that did NOT in any way answer my question. I suppose most people here are clear that High ISO means low DR When you split in three RGB Monochrome signals it is more than clear that with high ISO you get not so nice images.

And yet my question was related to: "colour that actually eye perception is UNABLE to differentiate?"

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Re: Colou

Can't wait to see sample images and sensitivity comparisons...

That's really interesting. A claimed advantage of medium format digital cameras have been that they have color-optimized CFAs rather than high ISO, it would be awesome if this sensor has taken the same type of optimization.
I think a 50 megapixel camera for sure should be optimized at high resolution use cases, rather than trying to be a hand-held low light action camera.

Actually NO! The trend with MF is to optimize the ISO availability ;-)
A plea to the more knowledgeable people here:
Could you please enlighten me why Canon is going for colour that actually eye perception is UNABLE to differentiate? Or I misunderstood it?

I think you did not understand. A strong color filter allows saturated colors (as a bright red flower) be captured without loss of color depth. In this regard, the old 1DS Mark iii was well above the 5D Mark II, which supposedly would have the same sensor.

It turns out that 1DS Mark iii had images with depth of color much better at ISO100, and noise worse at ISO 3200. I believe that we will see something similar with the new 5DS.