Nikon D800 at 36mp, Will Canon Respond?

[Gothmoth]

i hope canon will stay way below 30 MP with it´s next FF camera.
there are more important things to improve then the MP count.

and even average joe customers now know that more and more MP are not that important.

if i have to choose 36MP and 1 stop less dynamic range or 28MP and 1 stop more dynamic range i go for the later.

If true (very hard to believe) and Canon doesn't respond, then Canon will loose all of its userbase within month.

the idiots... maybe. but i would not care.

 

[wockawocka]

I wonder how Nikon users will deal with the double think a camera like this will have them spouting. For years they've been saying that 12MP is in fact better, less is more and other such- more images per GB

Nikon also said a photographers ability is dictated by the equipment they use.

For me it's exciting to think what 4 years of development will bring. I wholely believe that 36mp is possible with great IQ and ISO performance. What I would expect though is a high number of shooting resolutions available relative to the sensor size.

I'm still happy to shoot 21mp at a wedding but for studio I'd prefer to work as large as possible.

 

[awinphoto]

If true (very hard to believe) and Canon doesn't respond, then Canon will loose all of its userbase within month.

This cracks me up. You really think that pro photographers are chomping at the bit to be able to take 7,311 x 4,874 pictures instead of 5,616 × 3,744? They will cast off all their thousands of dollars in Canon lenses and flashes and go buy the equivalent Nikon gear? Taking pictures that are 1700 pixels wider is an overwhelmingly compelling feature to a pro? I guess they feel limited artistically by the extra resolution? Get real.

I'm a pro photographer and I would look forward to a canon equivalent to this camera.... I'm too invested and shot too long with canon to switch but I on occasion shoot for backgrounds on tradeshow displays... Now I either shoot in peices and merge the photos in Photoshop to create one large photo or upsample in fractals to get the large print... less upsampling or less piecing together to get a natively suitable shot at 150DPI, the better... and no, medium format or large format digi backs aren't in mine or my clients budgets...

 

[Stuart]

Smile i like how this rumour site is commenting on another rumour site.

Personally i most liked the idea of the low MP FF Canon for a low price. This Nikon one seems to have a poor ISO which is odd.

Come on Nikon publish for real, i want to see Canon & Sony's response - its boring with no announcements.

 

[eos650]

The 5D Mark II is a great camera. I know several people that have and love them, but I can't bring myself to buy three+ year old technology, believing that a replacement is right around the corner. I have to admit the wait is killing me.

Based on Moore's Law, Canon should be able to get four times as many pixels in their sensor, now, as they could have, three years ago. Of course, it's not always about more pixels, as has been pointed out. There are trade-offs, such as reduced heat, power, noise, etc. Still, I would be surprised if Canon couldn't make a FF sensor that is one or two stops better and still increase the pixel count.

The 5D was announced on August 22nd, 2005.
The 5D Mark II was announced on September 17th, 2008.

Here are a few things that changed, during those three years (8/2005 to 9/2008):
Megapixels 12.8 increased to 21.1 (60% increase)
Maximum ISO 3200 increased to 25,600 (3 Stop Improvement)
Added 1080p video

Given a similar 3 year time-frame (8/2008 to 10/2011), I believe it's possible that Canon could produce a 5D Mark III with:
33.9 megapixels
Maximum ISO 204,800

Canon has a lot of options and trade-off's to consider when implementing newer technologies and I don't necessarily expect to see a 33.9 megapixel camera with 204,800 ISO, but in theory, based on the leap from the 5D to the 5D MKII, they could.

 

[marginwalker]

It might be a stretch but perhaps the new sensor on the D800 is a 3 layer sensor like the Sigma foveon? That keep the file sizes the same as 12MP file sizes.

 

[bchernicoff]

For those of you worried about Canon's response I would like to point out something. The
7D has a 22.3mm x 14.9mm sensor (area of 332.27 sq mm) and takes images that are 5184 x 3456 (17915904 pixels).

17915904 / 332.27 = 53919.72 pixels / square mm

A full-frame sensor is 36mm x 24mm (864sq mm). If Canon used the 7D sensor technology that packs 53919.72 pixels/sq mm on a full-frame sensor it would be 53919.72 * 864 = 46586638.08, which is a little over 46.5 mp.

Canon, using 2 year old sensor technology, could release a 46.5mp full-frame camera with 7D ISO performance. I wouldn't speculate on whether they will choose to do so.

UPDATE: Another thought occurred to me. 46.5 is a little more than twice the 5D Mk II. Wouldn't it be interesting if there was an HDR mode to this sensor which took a 23.2mp image with half the photosites set to one ISO and the other half at a higher ISO?

 

[kubelik]

I'm absolutely with neuro in that I would prefer a high-MP machine rather than a low-MP. when I shoot low light I am using a tripod or lighting, either of which negates the need to shoot at some insane ISO. also, given the amount of time that Canon's spent working on the sensor, I don't believe we need something below 21 MP in order to achieve better image quality.

my relatively modest laptop setup has no problem chewing through 5DII files unless I am trying to stitch together large panoramas; even then, I just need some patience and it will still get there. you can get a 1TB hard drive nowadays for as much as you spend on a single high-speed CF card; no reason not to invest equally in both in-camera memory and permanent hard drive storage.

I think 46 MP would be a little unnecessarily high, but something in the 30-40MP range would be perfect. it's just a question of, will canon feel the need to top Nikon at 37MP, or will they be happy with a ~32MP or so camera.

 

[ronderick]

Since we're on the topic of the D800, I can't help but wonder if the rumored 36 MP sensor is made by Sony or a Nikon-original?

What makes it more interesting is for people who follow Sony stories, you'd probably know about the discontinuation of Sony's FF Camera - and many people suspects that a replacement is also around the corner.

It'll be quite a sight if the announcement of the new baby D collides with a Alpha 900 successor with both using the same sensor technology.

 

[Jackson_Bill]

I'm hoping Canon will come out with a full frame with the pixel density of my 7D. I'm not sure I see the advantage of a high ISO (and have not had good experience with using it) over sharpness. On the other hand, what Nikon does really doesn't make a lot of difference to me - I can't afford a new set of lenses.

 

[gene_can_sing]

This is nice no matter what because Canon will have to do something. I would just prefer a decent pixel 5D3 with incredible video features. 36mp is way too high and unnecessary for most people. I would even prefer the current high performing ISO 12 mega pixel D700 over a lower performing ISO with huge megapixels. But then again, I'm not the target audience because I mostly do video.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The big question is how the current lenses will hold up to a 36mp+ camera

No, that is not the big question. Even the 50D has a higher density sensor than this.
The big question is is Canon management capable of responding?
Now Nikon has a semi-fast (6fps) cam with hi-res and reach (36) in FF with video and pro-level AF in a compact body. What was that from that Canon exec a few years ago who said Nikon was hopelessly far behind Canon in every single respect and that Canon merely had to sit on top and do nothing??

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The big question is how the current lenses will hold up to a 36mp+ camera

How will my harddisk hold up to 50-60 MB RAW files?

Srsly, I'm quite happy with 21 MP and hope they don't jump too far ahead, more DR and better high ISO would be much more welcome than more pixels.

yeah the HD gobbling is a little scary though

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

If true (very hard to believe) and Canon doesn't respond, then Canon will loose all of its userbase within month.

This cracks me up. You really think that pro photographers are chomping at the bit to be able to take 7,311 x 4,874 pictures instead of 5,616 × 3,744? .... Get real.

it's more pro-level AF in a SMALL FF body with high HP and at least 6fps plus video

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 5D Mark II is a great camera. I know several people that have and love them, but I can't bring myself to buy three+ year old technology, believing that a replacement is right around the corner. I have to admit the wait is killing me.

Based on Moore's Law, Canon should be able to get four times as many pixels in their sensor, now, as they could have, three years ago. Of course, it's not always about more pixels, as has been pointed out. There are trade-offs, such as reduced heat, power, noise, etc. Still, I would be surprised if Canon couldn't make a FF sensor that is one or two stops better and still increase the pixel count.

The 5D was announced on August 22nd, 2005.
The 5D Mark II was announced on September 17th, 2008.

Here are a few things that changed, during those three years (8/2005 to 9/2008):
Megapixels 12.8 increased to 21.1 (60% increase)
Maximum ISO 3200 increased to 25,600 (3 Stop Improvement)
Added 1080p video

Given a similar 3 year time-frame (8/2008 to 10/2011), I believe it's possible that Canon could produce a 5D Mark III with:
33.9 megapixels
Maximum ISO 204,800

Canon has a lot of options and trade-off's to consider when implementing newer technologies and I don't necessarily expect to see a 33.9 megapixel camera with 204,800 ISO, but in theory, based on the leap from the 5D to the 5D MKII, they could.

i dont think 5d2 was 3 stops better than 5d, don't go by max listed ISO!!
and the limits are so close to what can be done compared to then so you can't expect 6 stops better than 5D, certainly not for SNR, canon DR has been low at ISO100/200 so there maybe you could almost do that, that certainly would be awesome

 

[eos650]

I'm hoping to see both increased pixels and higher ISO, as follows:

29 Megaipixels+ would allow the same zoom factor for a given lens as the 7D, once cropped down to the same 18 Megapixel resolution and secondly, I am hoping for a 1 to 2 stop improvement in sensitivity, while keeping the same or lower level of noise.

An increase in sensitivity would be a huge improvement in both convenience and cost savings. For example a one stop improvement would be the difference between an f2.8 and a f4.0 lens. Meaning the f4.0 lens on the new camera would act similarly in low light as an f2.8 lens on the older camera. A f2.8 lens generally costs 2 to 3 times as much as an f4.0 lens and usually weighs about 2 to 3 times as much, as well. A two stop improvement, would let you shoot at f5.6 in situations, where f2.8 might currently be needed.

Of course, if you still want or own the f2.8, you could shoot in situations that you can only dream of, now. My 50mm f1.4 can practically take pictures in the dark. Imagine doing that with a 70-200mm f2.8.

 

[eos650]

I don't know if Moore's Law applies here or not, but the technologies have been improving at a rapid pace, regardless.

In general, I presume the R&D for the 5D started roughly 3 years before the 5D Mark II, when ever that was. Regardless, we are talking about three years of improvements, between the 5D and the 5D Mark II and another three years of improvements from the 5D Mark II to present. I'm sure that Canon hasn't been sitting on their hands.

 

[J. McCabe]

Nikon Rumors is reporting a 36mp D800 coming in the next 30-60 days at a 99% probability.

Why does a Canon site care? Lots of people speculated Canon was waiting for a Nikon announcement to decide how to proceed. If Nikon announces this camera and is able to delivery before the year closes out, I don’t think Canon has any choice but to respond in some way.

If the 5Dmk3 has 36MP, I wouldn't buy it unless it makes coffee *and* give head better than my girlfriend.

 

[K-amps]

It might be a stretch but perhaps the new sensor on the D800 is a 3 layer sensor like the Sigma foveon? That keep the file sizes the same as 12MP file sizes.

I like that Idea!

 

[Fleetie]

It might be a stretch but perhaps the new sensor on the D800 is a 3 layer sensor like the Sigma foveon? That keep the file sizes the same as 12MP file sizes.

Er, how's that?