Patent: How Canon Increased AF Point Spread in the EOS 5D Mark IV

[Sharlin]

OK - I'll take any expansion - but that's not the most impressive "expansion" one could imagine... ???

Which should tell you it's difficult to achieve technically. As should the fact that it hasn't been done before. And requires clever hacks like diffractive optics.

I can see why vertical gains are obviously difficult - the secondary mirror cannot be much bigger as it has to fit behind the main reflex mirror - but what about horisontal expansion? Mechanical vignetting by the lens and the mount?

 

[Jopa]

All I have been hearing is people whinging and bitching about Canon's apparent lack of innovation (probably people paid to do so).
Last time I checked, Canon came up with:
- anti-flicker
- BD optics and
- more importantly, dual pixel tech.

You forgot the diffraction optics (DO) lenses. If one day I'll get a 600 f/4 that would be a size of my 300 f/2.8 - that will be truly impressive.

 

[Jopa]

I shared my first video on the 5D MKIV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_sqG76FBlU) and why I'm preordering and got a surprising amount of angry responses. Lots of "2012 technology" responses, etc... That wasn't the initial reaction, but there seem to be some bloggers and reviewers that have really come out negatively. People are also upset by the price (in non US markets), obviously.

Here's the thing, though. It is the little things like this (expanded AF point coverage) that will make the camera better than the specs suggest. There's one thing that I admire Canon for, and that is that they tend to deliver mature tech that is fully executed as opposed to others (Sony is one example) who have magnificent spec lists but sometimes poor concept execution.

People on the internet like "specs". Specs on paper are everything for them, especially for those without any camera. Another important thing is what a random hipster @ DPR says in his review. It's very nice to know that's your camera has 14 stops of DR while shooting a cat or a brick wall or an ogre-style headshot with a wide angle lens, especially if that's your only lens. All those megapixels are also important for facebook and instagram. So yeah, I kind of understand the people's frustration Don't take it seriously and keep it up - looking forward to see a full review, it looks like an exceptionally nice piece of gear. My only concern is lack of the af-point linked metering (Canon did it again!

 

[arbitrage]

The 1DX2 already has this increase. I really can't tell any difference between my 1DX and 1DX2...sure its increased this tiny bit but really doesn't translate into any meaningful difference.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I shared my first video on the 5D MKIV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_sqG76FBlU) and why I'm preordering and got a surprising amount of angry responses. Lots of "2012 technology" responses, etc... That wasn't the initial reaction, but there seem to be some bloggers and reviewers that have really come out negatively. People are also upset by the price (in non US markets), obviously.

Here's the thing, though. It is the little things like this (expanded AF point coverage) that will make the camera better than the specs suggest. There's one thing that I admire Canon for, and that is that they tend to deliver mature tech that is fully executed as opposed to others (Sony is one example) who have magnificent spec lists but sometimes poor concept execution.

Canon typically makes improvements in every area for a new camera model. The one area where they missed is failing to light the AF point. A lot of my use for my 5D MK III is with dark scenes, and the lack of a lighted AF point means I cannot always put the AF point where I want it, I have to guess and can miss when there is movement.

I'd get a 1 series, but due do Carpal Tunnel, I gave up my large cameras. Use of live view is a possibility, the DPAF is a big improvement. However, I'd likely raise lots of objections if I used live view in a dark room full of people.

So, for now, I'm not pre-ordering, but will probably break down eventually and get one.

 

[Jack Douglas]

"Unfortunately people hate sobriety, and prefer bloated spec delirium, however poorly implemented, because it gives them more bragging rights. "

Very true and that tends to tie in to age and maturity. Probably we all related largely that way at some early age. "My dad can beat up your dad" - that's about representative of the maturity level of some of the fly in fly out comments of late. ;D So, we are stuck with wading through it.

Jack

 

[M_S]

That's a pretty big whinge dude. A very video-istic point of view. I don't think video people would mind the dual pixel AF servo offered in no other brand on the market. An alternate codec could be implemented via firmware (Magic Lantern or Canon down the track if the 5DII is anything to go by) Can you pull 8.8MP stills from highly compressed Sony or any other video? Given enough RAM and a decent CPU, a decent computer can manage Canon's vid output.

I don't know. If you want it to read that way, ok. I am fine with that. I was more on the way of stating the obvious. Tried to compare it to existing gear and what we have already right now and adding to that the recent rumours of the D820 or D850 to it. In my opnion I tried to be resonable. but what ever. If that is the first thing that comes to your mind, then the rest of your statements come naturally. To put Magic Lantern in there speaks for itself. Lets fix some issues by unofficial third party guys and not from Canon. Not good.

If you want MP - the 5DsR is the king.

Or Sony A7RII, since it has the better sensor in it. Since its photokina and lots of rumours are in the air, I expect cameras to surface that exceed that 5DSR MP count within the lifespan of that camera quite sooner than later.

No proof - AF performance D5 vs 1DXII is similar and reviews depend on reviewer. D5 for low light and IDXII for all other is the general consensus. Many comparisons haven't exploited the 1DXII's ability to be customized. The same applies to the 5DIV. The 5DIV has added AF servo to dual pixel live view for stills, which is unique.

Might be. I wasn't critizising that. Just saying that the next iteration will be on par with that and the uniqueness will be only a feature then in a sum of not so good features.

The A7R2 has already a whopping 42MP and does 4K over the whole sensor
With loads of jello and inferior performance to its native heavily cropped alternative.

Depends on your shooting style. If you want to do fast panning, then I guess you are in the wrong place for video on a DSLR. If you want the full frame look on a full frame camera, you can at least do it in a usable and mangeable way.
Update: And even the Mark IV has that jello effect (and even much more pronounced than the already released 1DX II from a few month ago):
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

The newly released 5dIV can't do that because of old tech limitations and has a chuge crop. How embarassing is that? I am not saying that the other competitors do it with waving flags.
I have had girlfriends that whinge like that about a new microwave oven. Lucky I do most of the cooking

What ever dude, but since you have no argument here, I guess you agree.

A lack of AA filter below 36 MP is questionable at best for an all round camera. What are you thinking? The choice of having and AA filter is wise for a cam like this that would be used by many wedding togs.
Sounds like you need a Sony A7s for video and what ever alternative you like for photos.

Just put in what is standard nowadays and be done with it, thats my take.

 

[Takingshots]

Well the Mk IV is here and that's all to it... Rants, bravos or nonchalance - it doesn't matter but the final verdict is where sales will be - Canon will soon know whether it is a "hit" or have they miscalculated the direction of their path in its specifications for this camera.

 

[jeffa4444]

I shared my first video on the 5D MKIV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_sqG76FBlU) and why I'm preordering and got a surprising amount of angry responses. Lots of "2012 technology" responses, etc... That wasn't the initial reaction, but there seem to be some bloggers and reviewers that have really come out negatively. People are also upset by the price (in non US markets), obviously.

Here's the thing, though. It is the little things like this (expanded AF point coverage) that will make the camera better than the specs suggest. There's one thing that I admire Canon for, and that is that they tend to deliver mature tech that is fully executed as opposed to others (Sony is one example) who have magnificent spec lists but sometimes poor concept execution.

I totally agree with this. One Japanese site mentioned that the IQ of the 5DIV rivals that of the 5DsR. The reason is that IQ isn't just about megapixels, but Canon also upgrades a whole lot of other algorithms at the same time.
Unfortunately people hate sobriety, and prefer bloated spec delirium, however poorly implemented, because it gives them more bragging rights.

As for pricing, that is largely due to Brexit pushing up the Yen vs other currencies like the Canadian and Australian dollar which are both collapsing due to a drop in iron ore and mineral export pricing driven by a slump in Chinese demand. Not Canon's fault at all (unless you think Canon singularly manipulates the entire world economy).

However, once again we do not yet have evidence that Canon have implemented this particular sub-mirror patent in the 5DIV.

The £ Sterling has fallen about 20% against the yen since January 2016. However the 6D, 5D MKIII, 5DS/r have not gone up 20% since the start of the year if they had the 6D would be selling at around £ 1,411 when in fact its £ 1,249 in April it was selling for £ 1,129. The 5DS was selling for £ 2,699 in April and its still selling for that price. The 5D MKIII launched at the main dealers at £ 2,449 in 2012, its now £ 2,229, the MK II before it at £ 1,599.
At £ 3,599 for the MKIV Canon has seriously increased the price regardless of currency movements at that price it will lower demand it really is a considered purchase even for Pros and they will equally miss out on the "add ons" at purchase as will dealers. Whilst the £ sterling is weak against the yen they may need to consider retaining the 5D MKIII because 5DS/r aside the jump from 6D to 5D MIV is a massive £ 2,350!

 

[Maiaibing]

I totally agree with this. One Japanese site mentioned that the IQ of the 5DIV rivals that of the 5DsR. The reason is that IQ isn't just about megapixels, but Canon also upgrades a whole lot of other algorithms at the same time.

I fully expect the 5DIV sensor to be better than the 5DS/R sensor simply because its newer - even if the 5DS/R sensor already got a lot of the "new" stuff Canon put into 5DS/R.

Improvements should be better noise and DR (which Canon highlighted together with improved AF compared to the 5DIII). Colors, wb, anti-flickr, (non-)banding etc. I expect will be the same in the 5DS/R and 5DIV as these areas were improved already with the 5DS/R.

Looking at the DPR test shots I was however surprised how clear a lead the 5DS R has over the 5DIV when it comes to resolution and detail in spite of the upgrade to 30 MPIX. I believe the AA filter on the 5DIV is to blame for this. A blow for people like me who crave sharpness.