Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[scyrene]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

All my interest for this camera was a dual card slot....sadly you didn't implement it in this new 6d ii. You lost me there (

Suuuuure.

Are you saying that that's a suspicious first post?

:-X

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :

I get that some folks here are talking these things to absurd ends, but the original video just linked was about having a single piece of gear that can pull double duty and the advantages of using a video rig for stills (e.g. a 30 second prerecord). There's a big leap between that and "nobody will need to be focused on stills anymore because we'll pull frame grabs from Hollywood motion pictures"

I've been shooting football games for a friend and I'd be pretty happy with 36mp 60fps camera that's got an included 30 second time machine.

sure. i'd love to see you edit, select the frame, mark your keepers in between stoppages of play through 1800 frames.

You are completely missing the point. If you can't imagine the utility of this, you should watch the Laforet video to understand the amazing usefulness of the 8K RAW capture with 30 second prerecord.

I'm not completely missing the point. you are.

a sports photog selects the keepers in between breaks of action to send to the editors for distribution. i'm pretty sure they'll look through 1800 frames to find the right one times how many plays they captured. Thus my comment. I'm also sure a wedding photog would do the same. sit there and look through hundreds of thousands frames to find the right ones.

Ok, I get it. You don't want to watch the video.

I don't need to watch the video for common sense on the post I was replying to, which you had to become the hero and jump in on.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

You replied to that with "meh" which I accept as your concession since you have no response.

6. Again, read it and weep Canon zealots -- $2,000 - mid-2017 - FF ...single card slot. Unacceptable.

Meh.

You jump to a self-serving conclusion without verifying your facts -- that's entirely consistent with your previous posts. Using word games in this kind of discussion only shows the weakness of your arguments, and further undermines what little credibility you have left.

You present lists of features of the D750 as if it's novel and divine revelation. But you miss the more important truth: we can read spec sheets as well as you can, and we know what we want, and what we're willing to pay for it. The factual parts of your trollish posts are nothing we don't already know. The non-factual parts of your posts are just signs of your need for attention. Please enjoy your D750, by all accounts it's a nice body. Have fun with it, and put all the Canon shooters out of business with your high-value gear.

 

[Etienne]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :

I get that some folks here are talking these things to absurd ends, but the original video just linked was about having a single piece of gear that can pull double duty and the advantages of using a video rig for stills (e.g. a 30 second prerecord). There's a big leap between that and "nobody will need to be focused on stills anymore because we'll pull frame grabs from Hollywood motion pictures"

I've been shooting football games for a friend and I'd be pretty happy with 36mp 60fps camera that's got an included 30 second time machine.

sure. i'd love to see you edit, select the frame, mark your keepers in between stoppages of play through 1800 frames.

You are completely missing the point. If you can't imagine the utility of this, you should watch the Laforet video to understand the amazing usefulness of the 8K RAW capture with 30 second prerecord.

I'm not completely missing the point. you are.

a sports photog selects the keepers in between breaks of action to send to the editors for distribution. i'm pretty sure they'll look through 1800 frames to find the right one times how many plays they captured. Thus my comment. I'm also sure a wedding photog would do the same. sit there and look through hundreds of thousands frames to find the right ones.

Ok, I get it. You don't want to watch the video.

I don't need to watch the video for common sense on the post I was replying to, which you had to become the hero and jump in on.

Spoken like a guy who may be allowed to carry Laforet's kit and maybe even set up his tripod for him one day.

I posted the LaForet video, and it IS worth watching but you've proven your arrogant ignorance in spades. Guys like you will be, thankfully, left behind.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Convergence is bullish!t hype that will never have anything but very limited uses. For a start RAW video is crazy huge file sizes, add 8k and it is unmanageable. But the real killer is the shutter speed issue, optimal shutter speed for video is practically never optimal for stills.

The convergence marketing crap was rolled out for 4K and largely fell on its face, the same will happen for 8k.

Convergence as "a thing", a great transcendent moment in photography's evolution = agree completely.

But pulling stills from video will 100% happen someday. It will obviously start on the video side where folks were already planning to capture all that data down, and "Wow, that doesn't look like s---!" will be the words coming out of their mouth as they flip an 8K shot into a decent still. It will be niche.

But over time, I could those making movies start pulling stills from production footage and not having to hire an on-set photographer for promotional materials. I could see wildlifers getting madly OCD about nailing the pivotal moment (e.g. the fish in the mouth, the most dramatic lion about to bite moment, etc.) without needing a 20 fps still rig to do it.

I'm not saying that it's practical or inevitable (anytime soon) for serious stills shooters, but some folks 100% will find a way to use it.

- A

Well, good luck pulling photos of blurred water, stopped motion or panning shots from videoreel, usually twice the shutter speed that the videoframerate

You took the words right out of my mouth. Smooth video relies on motion blur between the frames.

Right because you totally can't adjust the shutter speed on a $50K weapon. :

I get that some folks here are talking these things to absurd ends, but the original video just linked was about having a single piece of gear that can pull double duty and the advantages of using a video rig for stills (e.g. a 30 second prerecord). There's a big leap between that and "nobody will need to be focused on stills anymore because we'll pull frame grabs from Hollywood motion pictures"

I've been shooting football games for a friend and I'd be pretty happy with 36mp 60fps camera that's got an included 30 second time machine.

sure. i'd love to see you edit, select the frame, mark your keepers in between stoppages of play through 1800 frames.

You are completely missing the point. If you can't imagine the utility of this, you should watch the Laforet video to understand the amazing usefulness of the 8K RAW capture with 30 second prerecord.

I'm not completely missing the point. you are.

a sports photog selects the keepers in between breaks of action to send to the editors for distribution. i'm pretty sure they'll look through 1800 frames to find the right one times how many plays they captured. Thus my comment. I'm also sure a wedding photog would do the same. sit there and look through hundreds of thousands frames to find the right ones.

Ok, I get it. You don't want to watch the video.

I don't need to watch the video for common sense on the post I was replying to, which you had to become the hero and jump in on.

Spoken like a guy who may be allowed to carry Laforet's kit and maybe even set up his tripod for him one day.

I posted the LaForet video, and it IS worth watching but you've proven your arrogant ignorance in spades. Guys like you will be, thankfully, left behind.

I highly doubt I'll be left behind. but LaForest has made many claims over the years that hasn't happened. this one may not either - simply being the logistics.

Right. again, sorting through frames I don't care what software you use is a tiresome process. it's even MORE tiresome when you have to do it in the field. who does it in the field? ask canon why there's a rating button on their higher end cameras.

36MP is going to be so old school way before this is even a reality. in the next couple of years, canon will have a 120MP full frame camera. in the next couple of years Panasonic is trying for a m43's sensor with the equiv pixel density of 128MP and so on.

Not to mention all the technical limitations of shooting video for stills.

Carry on though .. I'll wait for real advances such as global shutters to be viable for stills.

 

[abcd1234]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K, your crappy piece of shit D750 is made in thailand, that's why it's cheap.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I posted the LaForet video, and it IS worth watching but you've proven your arrogant ignorance in spades. Guys like you will be, thankfully, left behind.

I highly doubt I'll be left behind....

...Not to mention all the technical limitations of shooting video for stills.

The LaForet video is a nice commercial for Red. But that's all it is.

What people who dream of grabbing stills off of video never understand is that you are shutter-speed limited. LaForet talks about shooting 60 frames a second. But, what he doesn't talk about is the shutter speed. Notice that all the examples he shows are of stationary or slow moving subjects: the guy with the beard, for example.

Even at 60 frames a second, you would be limited to 1/120th shutter speed to get smooth video (twice the frame rate). Choose the kind of shutter speed you need to stop fast action: 1/800th for example, and you will get stuttering, unusable video.

So the choice remains: shoot action at fast shutter speeds and get crappy video, or shoot video at the proper shutter speed and get blurred action. Doesn't matter if you are shooting 1080p or 64K, the resolution isn't going to make a blurred picture sharp.

I suppose it might have some value, but only if the subject is moving slow enough to be captured at 1/120th shutter speed (for 60 fps). No good for sports, birds or wildlife action.

 

[drob]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?

I hope zero. I'd much rather sharpen in post than deal with Moiré.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The LaForet video is a nice commercial for Red. But that's all it is.

What people who dream of grabbing stills off of video never understand is that you are shutter-speed limited. LaForet talks about shooting 60 frames a second. But, what he doesn't talk about is the shutter speed. Notice that all the examples he shows are of stationary or slow moving subjects: the guy with the beard, for example.

Even at 60 frames a second, you would be limited to 1/120th shutter speed to get smooth video (twice the frame rate). Choose the kind of shutter speed you need to stop fast action: 1/800th for example, and you will get stuttering, unusable video.

So the choice remains: shoot action at fast shutter speeds and get crappy video, or shoot video at the proper shutter speed and get blurred action. Doesn't matter if you are shooting 1080p or 64K, the resolution isn't going to make a blurred picture sharp.

I suppose it might have some value, but only if the subject is moving slow enough to be captured at 1/120th shutter speed (for 60 fps). No good for sports, birds or wildlife action.

That's called logic. K doesn't do logic.
I doubt you will get a rebuttal of your comments, merely another comment about your being a dinosaur and how 'they will sort it out somehow'

 

[Diamir]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

THERE IS ONLY ONE CARD SLOT. DEAL WITH IT!

THERE IS NO 4K. DEAL WITH IT!

All the noise in the world is not going to change it! This is flogging a dead horse! Nobody wants to see another 400 posts on the subject! Nobody is going to change anybody else's opinion.... LET IT DROP!

Can we please discuss something else?

I've an idea: one can create a new discussion about what should/may/must/have to/ should have to be [add more] THE_New_Canon_EOS_Full_Frame. After a couple of day, we do the addition of all the features "needed" and we send that to Canon. The billon dollars camera...

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?

About the same as your chances of hitting the Powerball.

 

[BurningPlatform]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

What's the chances of the 6DII not having an AA filter?

I hope zero. I'd much rather sharpen in post than deal with Moiré.

I agree completely. With this pixel count and full frame (and sharp lenses on apertures where you do not need to use diffraction or missed focus as your AA), there would be no sense in leaving AA filter out from a general purpose camera. Astro would be different, though.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.

we have seen no credible Asia leaks on images, specs, and whatnot and it's 7-8 days until announcement. Not even any leaks on the SL2 that is supposedly coming out side by side.

Unless Canon got REALLY good overnight, this is unusual, especially the SL2.

the only "verification" posts seem to be from each other. by now we should have seen body image snippets or even fully body pictures and at the least credible specs coming from domestic sources in Japan.

We have seen notta.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

They've had a complete redesign, having realised they should have put two card slots in there. So they've given Joe in the warehouse a box cutter and a reel of high grade silver wire to cut a hole under the card cover and solder some wires in there.
He will also be crossing out '1080p' on the video processor and overwriting it with '4k' in true 'mine goes up to 10' fashion. They whiney assed 'I want 4K' brigade won't actually notice the difference because all they are interested in is the specs.

So launch will be delays 9 days while all back stock is modified.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

They've had a complete redesign, having realised they should have put two card slots in there. So they've given Joe in the warehouse a box cutter and a reel of high grade silver wire to cut a hole under the card cover and solder some wires in there.
He will also be crossing out '1080p' on the video processor and overwriting it with '4k' in true 'mine goes up to 10' fashion. They whiney assed 'I want 4K' brigade won't actually notice the difference because all they are interested in is the specs.

So launch will be delays 9 days while all back stock is modified.

K got his wish

it may not be that bad though.. just looking back:

M6

Feb 3 - it's coming
Feb 8 - pictures
Feb 9 - full specs
Feb 14 - release

T7I

Feb 14 - release
Feb 10 - images and specs
Dec 27 - coming soon

5D Mark IV


July 27 - 30mp sensor?
Aug 8 - rough specs
Aug 9 - image / spec
Aug 16 - images / specs
Aug 24 - announce


...

But if we don't see images or specs relatively soon (say by this weekend) it's probably not happening.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K, your crappy piece of S___ D750 is made in thailand, that's why it's cheap.

Nikon's initial price on the D750 was $2399 if I remember right. Made in Thailand or not, it was not priced cheap to start with. Wonder how much Nikon is making on this camera at the current price points.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.

we have seen no credible Asia leaks on images, specs, and whatnot and it's 7-8 days until announcement. Not even any leaks on the SL2 that is supposedly coming out side by side.

Unless Canon got REALLY good overnight, this is unusual, especially the SL2.

the only "verification" posts seem to be from each other. by now we should have seen body image snippets or even fully body pictures and at the least credible specs coming from domestic sources in Japan.

We have seen notta.

Rumor has the initial availability as some time in early August. So, that would give Canon 5-7 weeks to come up with actual product.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a busted rumor.

we have seen no credible Asia leaks on images, specs, and whatnot and it's 7-8 days until announcement. Not even any leaks on the SL2 that is supposedly coming out side by side.

Unless Canon got REALLY good overnight, this is unusual, especially the SL2.

the only "verification" posts seem to be from each other. by now we should have seen body image snippets or even fully body pictures and at the least credible specs coming from domestic sources in Japan.

We have seen notta.

Rumor has the initial availability as some time in early August. So, that would give Canon 5-7 weeks to come up with actual product.

only gives canon 2-3 weeks to start shipping. that still doesn't change the fact that usually we have more concrete information by now.

 

[hne]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Right. again, sorting through frames I don't care what software you use is a tiresome process. it's even MORE tiresome when you have to do it in the field. who does it in the field? ask canon why there's a rating button on their higher end cameras.

36MP is going to be so old school way before this is even a reality. in the next couple of years, canon will have a 120MP full frame camera. in the next couple of years Panasonic is trying for a m43's sensor with the equiv pixel density of 128MP and so on.

Not to mention all the technical limitations of shooting video for stills.

Carry on though .. I'll wait for real advances such as global shutters to be viable for stills.

Just to clarify in painstaking detail: if you're recording video for pulling stills at a sports event, you don't have to limit yourself to shutter angles and so on. That can be cared for by the people shooting for video. Shoot 8K 60fps at 1/1000s shutter and then if you had a proper jog/shuttle wheel you could in about two seconds find the best frame out of 10s of footage. People do that all day long in video editing for placing the cuts just right in several hours long recordings. All it needs is the right input device.

Oh, and on the other hand, people doing video for sports don't really seem to care about smooth video. Probably because the general consumer doesn't give a rats ass about image quality. Just look at any broadcast of F1, football (soccer as those murricans call it), cycling, tennis, freestyle skiing and what not. Most of it is recorded with really fast shutters because it looks sharp. And insane saturation because people associate strong colour with good image quality.

The general consumer don't give a rats ass about image quality. They just wanna have that spectacular face punch on the billboard.

(posted during a work break at a broadcast sports video production house)