Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I was hoping all the belly-aching about 6DII specs would have run its course in the other thread. :P

The 6DII is not aimed at...wait for it...videographers, sports shooters or mirrorless fanatics (and yet they still moan about it not meeting their needs). It's not even really aimed at the average 6D owner looking to upgrade (Canon's intended upgrade path there is 5-series). Rather, I believe it's aimed at people like me who have enjoyed their APS-C bodies, want to move to full frame for the image quality but can't justify a 5-series price for their hobby.

Canon persuaded many of its APS-C shooters to go full-frame with the 6D on the strength of its sensor (better even than the 5DIII) and lower price point compared to 5- and 1-series bodies. Canon has now improved the specs enough to persuade its other APS-C shooters who, like me, didn't want to trade the capabilities and ergonomics of bodies like the 70D or 80D for full-frame image quality alone. In other words, we didn't want to downgrade everything else just to upgrade the sensor. That's the only reason I stuck with APS-C. Now, I don't have to give anything up (except probably burst rate). I keep my articulating screen, DPAF and WiFi and get much better AF, plus some extra goodies -- all with a sensor that's better than the previous generation.

Remember how everyone thought the original 6D, which was explicitly marketed as entry-level, was poo-pooed on all the fora as DOA, a guaranteed flop? Totally useless compared to the innovative competition? Especially with second-hand 5DIIs floating around? Well, it sold well. Quite well. Well enough, in fact, to have this long a life cycle. I expect the same for the MKII.

Personally, I'm absolutely thrilled at the spec list! All I needed was an articulating screen and AF points on par with the 70D (19 points, all cross-type). Instead, I get 45 AF points like the 80D? And all cross-type? WOOT! And for less than the original 6D launch price several years ago!?! WOOHOO! Done. Sold. Doing the happy dance. :P

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Canon, please don't poke me in the eye and leave out AFMA. :P]
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

wildwalker said:
Hornet said:
I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

True but Sony plans to announce the A7III with similar specs and price plus 4K very soon after the 6DMII is announced. Same with Nikon, although I have not heard anything about price. The timing is definitely not a coincidence.

I'll probably pick up the 6DMII if only for it's higher (compared to 6D) resolution, low light performance and articulating screen. Those are 3 very good reasons for someone that doesn't shoot video. However, I won't pre-order. At least not based on the rumored specs. Hopefully the actual specs will include more not less.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

At $2000 it's not a bad value, at this moment.

I'm disappointed at the lack of 4K, and the single card slot, but they are not total deal breakers. DPAF in a full frame 1080p with fast glass will be very useful for getting intimate clips. Full reviews will tell the tale.

But, my guess is that the A7sIII, likely to be released in less than a year, will also have full sensor based phase detect AF, and a lot more, making the 6D2 value short lived. Of course, the A7sIII will be more expensive, but I was hoping the 6D2 would move further up-market.

The 6D2 may be a useful stop-gap, if at least the 1080p is good, without moire or aliasing.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

mb66energy said:
IglooEater said:
goldenhusky said:
Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and 4k@30p, 1080@ 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has 1080p@180fps and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely

My phone's GPS (iPhone 5) works perfectly even without any cell connectivity. So did my iPhone 4. Can't remember the 3G did or not

Cellphone based GPS means
* standard GPS receiver which operates independently of cellphone networks but which is
* Assisted by the cellphone network therefore called A-GPS

While building a simple GPS coordinate displayer (NEO7 GPS board + arduino + LCD display + power bank) for teaching purposes I learned a little bit about what A-GPS is for: The cellphone can load satellite orbit data via the communication network which is much faster than loading the same data from the satellite. In a creek you need maybe lots of attempts to get at least the three satellites and the orbital data from the satellites.

If the reveiver module has the orbital data, a GPS fix is obtained within seconds: The satellite receiver just compares time signals from the satellites [and therefore needs the precise orbit data to calculate the satellite position within 10m uncertainty (at satellite speeds of 7000m per second). It's really fun to see how good this works!].

My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

goldenhusky said:
My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?

My running watch (no phone connection) picks up GPS in maybe 10 seconds.. sometimes less. not instantly but decently fast, because it keeps a memory of the satellite orbits.

i.e. you don't need a phone to tell you what to look for, memory get's you pretty close... time works against you, if you leave it several weeks between uses then the GPS can take a fair bit longer to lock as needs to download fresh data.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

rfdesigner said:
Given this is all a rumor it might all be fine.. but...

1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!

Canon, this is a mistake, a very big mistake.

A second hand 5DIII or a D750 suddenly look much more attractive.

Not to anyone who uses and enjoys DPAF and articulating touch screen and doesn't mind the improved sensor to boot. :P
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

mb66energy said:
IglooEater said:
goldenhusky said:
Sounds like a decent camera for the price. Hope they do not skip the GPS. I guess there is one down side to the cellphone based GPS data like in the M6, it is impossible to get the GPS data while hiking a trail without any cell phone signals. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. I know that phone have dedicated GPS receiver but to get the location they need to download the map with needs data connection. I hope the SD card slot is UHS-ll. The other items I had hoped for in the past were dual card slots and 4k@30p, 1080@ 180fps. Sounds like none of those are happening. My thought is that all these specs are still speculations. Lately it almost sounds like nobody gets specs unless nok____ta leaks the actual specs a day to a week prior to launch. If these are in fact the actual specs I do not see a point in getting this while I have a 5D4 and 80D. I am really happy with that combo. And for Video I have Sony a 6500. I will definitely buy 6D2 if it has 1080p@180fps and 4k and canon charges a $500 extra. I can get rid of the Sony system completely

My phone's GPS (iPhone 5) works perfectly even without any cell connectivity. So did my iPhone 4. Can't remember the 3G did or not

Cellphone based GPS means
* standard GPS receiver which operates independently of cellphone networks but which is
* Assisted by the cellphone network therefore called A-GPS

While building a simple GPS coordinate displayer (NEO7 GPS board + arduino + LCD display + power bank) for teaching purposes I learned a little bit about what A-GPS is for: The cellphone can load satellite orbit data via the communication network which is much faster than loading the same data from the satellite. In a creek you need maybe lots of attempts to get at least the three satellites and the orbital data from the satellites.

If the reveiver module has the orbital data, a GPS fix is obtained within seconds: The satellite receiver just compares time signals from the satellites [and therefore needs the precise orbit data to calculate the satellite position within 10m uncertainty (at satellite speeds of 7000m per second). It's really fun to see how good this works!].

Huh, very interesting, thanks!
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

BillB said:
Hornet said:
wildwalker said:
Hornet said:
I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

I'm not sure what would be a Sony equivalent other than maybe the 4-year old A7R with much, much better image quality. Nikon is probably the least innovative camera maker today so not much of an example for Canon to follow.

ok There is no equivalent price FF Sony. Therefore Sony does not offer an equivalent price FF Sony with UHD. Nikon does not offer an equivalent price camera with UHD. No other manufacturers offer FF cameras with UHD. So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?

Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

rfdesigner said:
goldenhusky said:
My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?

My running watch (no phone connection) picks up GPS in maybe 10 seconds.. sometimes less. not instantly but decently fast, because it keeps a memory of the satellite orbits.

i.e. you don't need a phone to tell you what to look for, memory get's you pretty close... time works against you, if you leave it several weeks between uses then the GPS can take a fair bit longer to lock as needs to download fresh data.
Hi,
My previous 6D and my current 7DII GPS is very slow, so slow that I never use them... I currently use a Garmin GPS which is a lot faster and accurate. I just export the GPS track from the GPS and embed them into the Canon RAW files using the GeoSetter software.

Have a nice day.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The good news is, we can come back in four years and see how all the predictions went. If the value proposition for competing products is materially better, it will be reflected in the market. If/when that happens, Canon will move to compete. If not, there's no need for Canon to change course.

I get that people want to see Canon leading the way in everything. I wouldn't be disappointed if it did. But. In the tech industry, it's wise to not use up all your tech just because you have it. If you're leading the industry, dominating market share, it's a waste (and a risk) to dump your best innovations when market conditions don't require it -- especially with technology that is maturing to the point where huge leaps in capability are fewer and farther between. To be unable to release something new because engineers are still trying to turn patents into something mass-produceable, reliable and affordable (and everything that already was had been released) would be absolutely devastating to a tech company.

Honestly, if the market is so full of "better" options, why waste time complaining? Go and buy them! Unless people do that, Canon will have no need to do anything differently. As a happy Canon shooter, I'd encourage people to go buy the competing products if they feel they are better. That will just result in better Canon products for me down the road. :P

As much as people seem to complain to the contrary, I think Canon is listening to its customers.

Remember several years ago, after the D800 came out, how so many moaned that Canon didn't release a "high megapixel monster?" They answered with the 5DS -- at 50MP over Nikon's 36. No one else had anything close (not counting medium format).

Remember when people wanted no AA filter? Canon responded with the 5DSR.

Remember when people complained about Canon's AF in the 5DII? They responded with AF nearly as good as the 1DX in the 5DIII...and continued that with the 5DIV having nearly as good of AF as the 1DXII.

Remember when people complained about Live View AF being slow and clumsy? Canon gave us DPAF which is so good that it's changing opinions about AF in the videography world (it also happens to be brilliant for me in-studio for situations when the focus point needs to be constantly and quickly changed).

Remember when people complained about Canon's ever-increasing prices? Then the 70D launched $200 cheaper than all the rumors. Then the 16-35F4 came with reasonable price. Then the M series and lenses all came in lower than people expected. Same with the 24-105F4II and others. Then the 5DIV launched for pretty much the same as the 5DIII, despite the number of intervening years. Now the 6DII comes in cheaper than its predecessor.

I also remember people melting down about the huge leap in price from 5DII to 5DIII and predicting that Canon was doomed. The 5DIII went on to be arguably the best all-around pro/semi-pro body out there and dominated the market.

In this world of short attention spans and instant gratification, perhaps it's easy to forget...

Sure, it would be neat to see Canon drop its best tech into a full-frame mirrorless body or quickly 1-up the competition at every turn and for a lower price. It's just not the way business works, though, for a market-leader. Yes, Sony does that, but it has to. Companies trying to claw their way into market share usually do. At the cost of reliability, customer service, etc.

Everyone will assess the value proposition differently, and as markets move, so will Canon -- maybe not on the bleeding edge, but well enough to remain a solid business with solid imaging products in an extremely competitive industry.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Hornet said:
Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.

You absolutely can demand more from Canon. Just remember that in business, demand is only communicated by purchase transactions. Quite literally, you demand what you buy. If you want Canon to respond to demand, it has to be in the marketplace. It would be foolish business practice to operate differently.

I wouldn't expect 4K to come to a 6-series body until higher-tier bodies have something more (like 6K or 8K). It is an entry-level body and will likely always be positioned as such relative to higher-tier feature sets.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The omission of 4k is fine (and understandable to a certain extent). But sticking to using a single card slot (in a body this big) is pushing it too far I think. It would have been a great wedding camera with dual card slots, now the 5D Mark III remains as the 'budget' option (even though the sensor isn't as good).

I think the price will drop once the stocks begin to fill up within a few months.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

JP4DESIGNZ said:
I know the 6D Mark II will be awesome over time however, dang! No dual SD Card slot! I'm not too surprised about it not having 4K however, would have been nice though. Also, was GPS taken out of the 6D Mark II?

Definitely seems like a full-frame 80D which is good, except for no dual SD card slots.

Yeah they missed the mark not having 4K video.

The AF points that work with f/8 lenses are useful as I use a telescope and the lack of feedback on some is a problem

Trouble is, by replacing my 7D @ 1.6X and 18M, to make gains in resolution on a FF dSLR, I need to have 46M pixels and only the 5DS and 5DSr have this.

As for
Posted by: Famateur
« on: Today at 02:43:43 PM »

Insert Quote


The good news is, we can come back in four years and see how all the predictions went. If the value proposition for competing products is materially better, it will be reflected in the market. If/when that happens, Canon will move to compete. If not, there's no need for Canon to change course.

I get that people want to see Canon leading the way in everything. I wouldn't be disappointed if it did. But. In the tech industry, it's wise to not use up all your tech just because you have it. If you're leading the industry, dominating market share, it's a waste (and a risk) to dump your best innovations when market conditions don't require it -- especially with technology that is maturing to the point where huge leaps in capability are fewer and farther between. To be unable to release something new because engineers ....


Canon CAN add 4K video by adding a parallel DSP CPU easily and rewriting the firmware. They just DON"T get loss of having people who NEED 4K to migrate to a FF camera that can do it.

And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

RandomRazr said:
Is it worth waiting for the 6D II or can i go wrong with the 5D IV?

It depends on what you want from the $1,300 difference. If you want to spend that $1,300 on the additional features, get the 5DIV. If not, get the 6DII and spend the $1,300 on something else (like a good lens, or a trip to a great place to take photos).
 
Upvote 0
Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

johnhenry said:
And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.

Looks like that business degree from Trump U wasn't worth what you paid for it. ::)
 
Upvote 0