Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[wildwalker]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

The omission of 4k is fine (and understandable to a certain extent). But sticking to using a single card slot (in a body this big) is pushing it too far I think. It would have been a great wedding camera with dual card slots, now the 5D Mark III remains as the 'budget' option (even though the sensor isn't as good).

I think the price will drop once the stocks begin to fill up within a few months.

You think a company like Canon manufacturers new stock without knowing what demand is? It's 2017, manufacturing doesn't work like that anymore!

 

[wildwalker]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.

Yes because Canon don't do any market research to work that out, they just blindly churn out new products with fingers crossed!

 

[Adelino]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Can we assume it will have anti-flicker? That should be standard for Canon now, right?

 

[Famateur]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Canon CAN add 4K video by adding a parallel DSP CPU easily and rewriting the firmware. They just DON"T get loss of having people who NEED 4K to migrate to a FF camera that can do it.

And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.

I'm not privy to Canon's R&D budget, but I'd be shocked if segmenting its full-frame line-up into four bodies was wasting money and costing customers. Just a few years ago, if you wanted a full-frame Canon, you could choose between 5-series and 1-series. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame segment, and it paid off handsomely. Nikon followed suit with its D600 (and then quick replacement with D610 ).

The 6DII is still positioned as an entry-level full-frame stills camera. Core features were significantly upgraded (e.g 45 cross-type AF points, DPAF, articulating touch screen, etc) . Non-core features were not (like video). Doesn't sound like a catastrophic decision to me.

Non-core features don't shape a market segment. Competing products from other companies don't drive feature set decisions. Market demand does. A competing product might have better specs in every category and maybe even for a cheaper price, but if the market determines that reliability and customer service are still more important in the value proposition, the specs won't matter. There's just more to it than specs and price.

Canon is competitive enough on specs. Add its reliability, ergonomics, service and lens selection, and its no surprise to me that an entry-level stills body that lacks 4K will still likely do just fine.

 

[mb66energy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My apologies if this becomes a double post. I do not see my response here hence re-posting. Thank you. That make perfect sense why the phone based GPS gets signal quickly Vs the traditional GPS devices takes longer to get the location. So in this case (if canon goes with the phone based GPS) without the data connection we should still be able to get the GPS signal and geo tag photos correct?

My running watch (no phone connection) picks up GPS in maybe 10 seconds.. sometimes less. not instantly but decently fast, because it keeps a memory of the satellite orbits.

i.e. you don't need a phone to tell you what to look for, memory get's you pretty close... time works against you, if you leave it several weeks between uses then the GPS can take a fair bit longer to lock as needs to download fresh data.

@goldenhusky:
The 6D has a standard GPS chip which gets the satellite orbital data (called ephemeris) and additionally the almanac of rough satellite positions. So it works independently of all earth bound communication systems like cellphone networks.

@both of you:
GPS receivers have to different start up modes:
cold start without any date except perhaps almanac data (change on sth. like a monthly interval)

warm start where the memory of the GPS receiver holds currently acquired ephemeris (=orbital) data -
these are only valid vor a period of 4 hrs to keep track of changes of the data: Storms and tides change
the height of the water, hence the gravitational forces hence the orbit of the satellites so the corresponding
data has to be updated this often (the above mentioned 4hr - interval)

So your watch maybe makes a warm start or doesn't have to start because it is scanning the satellites in intervals. Cameras are maybe designed to be careful with electric energy for other purposes than taking photos - so maybe weixing's scenario of using a discrete GPS tracker is the best compromise ... getting fast and reliable GPS tracking while keeping the battery of the camera ready for its (the cameras) purpose!

(For those interested in the anatomy of a simple GPS:
The image below shows the setup I use. The small box at the top (ca. 1 x 1.5 inch) is the GPS receiver unit with antenna, processor (on the back) and a really tiny buffer battery to store the data in the memory for 1 day or so.
Then comes the arduino microcontroller, the LCD and - finally - a power bank with a lot of DR and 4k etc.
For a camera you "only" have to add the GPS receiver (under a RF transmitting (plastic) hood) - the rest is there (CPU(s), display(s), power source).
The coordinates (cropped for privacy reasons) give you the hint that I am (and live) in germany 50.3 deg N and 7.5 deg E

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

I'm not sure what would be a Sony equivalent other than maybe the 4-year old A7R with much, much better image quality. Nikon is probably the least innovative camera maker today so not much of an example for Canon to follow.

ok There is no equivalent price FF Sony. Therefore Sony does not offer an equivalent price FF Sony with UHD. Nikon does not offer an equivalent price camera with UHD. No other manufacturers offer FF cameras with UHD. So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?

Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.

K
Don't know about you, but I think the dual pixel DPAF is pretty innovative, and the related touchscreen focusing is pretty neat too. Dual pixel technology has been the core of Canon's camera development strategy for a while now, not that everybody has noticed. Putting ADC on the sensor was more catchup than innovation, but you don't hear much about DR anymore, except from people who haven't heard the news. Putting the 45 point AF on the 6DII wasn't all that innovative either but it was a nice add all the same, and doesn't really square with the prediction that Canon was going to nerf the 6DII. For me, the 6DII adds up to more than tossing scraps to the peasants. Canon did pass on 4K and we are all going to see how that all plays out for them. Maybe Sony or somebody else will be offering FF 4K for $2000 a year from now. Maybe not.

 

[K]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.

No dual SD Card slot! I'm not too surprised about it not having 4K however, would have been nice though. Also, was GPS taken out of the 6D Mark II?

Definitely seems like a full-frame 80D which is good, except for no dual SD card slots.

Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?

You lost business from me at single SD card slot. Well.dine canon! Way to go.

Seems good, although I have to admit a single card slot is a bit of a disappointment given the same money can get you a 5D Mark III or D750, either with dual slots.

1 SD Card Slot is a huge let down.
Although you might never use this feature... if one card dies, it's essential.
Protect to force the wedding and professional photography market to buy higher market cams instead of this otherwise perfectly capable piece of equipment. Plain and simple.

1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!

Canon, this is a mistake, a very big mistake.

A second hand 5DIII or a D750 suddenly look much more attractive.

CANON has laid an egg with the 6D2.

Canon is gambling on losing customers like me and likely others in this thread and throughout the market for potential added profits of upselling others to the 5D4. It's is extremely remarkable that a company can get away with selling a $2,000 body in mid 2017 with such lame specs - but Canon is empowered to be able to do so because there are (as evident in this forum) hordes of total suckers who will buy this thing - some because they have no choice being "invested" in lots of glass.

Some, to fulfill their needs will fall for the forced upsell to the 5D4. Resist it. Unless you have a fortune in glass, DUMP Canon if you're looking for a lower cost FF body. If you are new to FF, or looking to get your first $3,000ish pro body...forget Canon. You can buy a D750 and a D500 for the price of a single 5D4 which suffers from banding issues. LOL.


The 6D2 specs vs D750 for $1,500 from 2014:


45pt AF -- Soundly crushed by the D750 51pt system which has better intelligent tracking.

26mp -- Almost unnoticeable resolution advantage over D750 24mp particularly since both have the AA filter, and the D750 is still likely to beat it on dynamic range. 6D2 might have the edge on high ISO, a little.

Single Card Slot -- A serious liability, D750 ensures you never lose a shoot. 6D2's lack of this feature is a ticking timebomb - putting your whole shoot, time, energy and money at risk over the reliability of a single card slot.

FPS ??? -- still unknown for the 6D2, but the D750 has 6.5 fps. We can easily assume the 6D2 won't match this because it would be nearly as fast as the 5D4. Remember, the 6D2 exists to try and prove the 5D4 is a great upgrade.

Tilt Screen - they both have it

Video - Same quality, no difference.

DPAF -- Big win for the 6D2 (sarcasm). For $2,000 you get a DSLR that has decent AF capabilities!! BFD!! For $2,000 you can buy a dedicated video camera or competitor that has far better video quality and features. So, this is a wasted feature. $2,000 DPAF rig that does 1080 (laughter).

Viewfinder -- 6D2 "nearly 100%" ...what kind of marketing BS is that? "nearly" can mean anything. It can be 97% like the 6D, it can be 99%. "Nearly" ...D750 100% <--WIN.

Bluetooth/NFC -- uh....these bring the zzzz's

There you have it. Save $500 and get a D750. If you are going to feel pressured to go up market, don't get the 5D4, get the D750 and a D500. That combo is seriously powerful and extremely capable.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Wow! The 6DII fixes all the weaknesses of the 6D and does it for less money at introduction. Looks like Canon will have another winner.

Can't wait now to see what the SL2 will be like.

 

[wildwalker]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Whelp... Looks like I made the right decision in going with the Nikon D750 (with lens for the same price as this body). One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.

No dual SD Card slot! I'm not too surprised about it not having 4K however, would have been nice though. Also, was GPS taken out of the 6D Mark II?

Definitely seems like a full-frame 80D which is good, except for no dual SD card slots.

Holy crap are you kidding me? I haven't been following Canon, but dang, that's fracking horrible. The D750 with the 24-120 F4, 51-pt AF, same or better DR/ISO, from 2014 is $2k. At what point does Canon start competing with Sony, Nikon, Fuji, etc. and stop competing with themselves?

You lost business from me at single SD card slot. Well.dine canon! Way to go.

Seems good, although I have to admit a single card slot is a bit of a disappointment given the same money can get you a 5D Mark III or D750, either with dual slots.

1 SD Card Slot is a huge let down.
Although you might never use this feature... if one card dies, it's essential.
Protect to force the wedding and professional photography market to buy higher market cams instead of this otherwise perfectly capable piece of equipment. Plain and simple.

1080p60fps max, single SD card slot, waterproofing?. I doubt it will be 5DIII standard, yet $2000!!

Canon, this is a mistake, a very big mistake.

A second hand 5DIII or a D750 suddenly look much more attractive.

CANON has laid an egg with the 6D2.

Canon is gambling on losing customers like me and likely others in this thread and throughout the market for potential added profits of upselling others to the 5D4. It's is extremely remarkable that a company can get away with selling a $2,000 body in mid 2017 with such lame specs - but Canon is empowered to be able to do so because there are (as evident in this forum) hordes of total suckers who will buy this thing - some because they have no choice being "invested" in lots of glass.

Some, to fulfill their needs will fall for the forced upsell to the 5D4. Resist it. Unless you have a fortune in glass, DUMP Canon if you're looking for a lower cost FF body. If you are new to FF, or looking to get your first $3,000ish pro body...forget Canon. You can buy a D750 and a D500 for the price of a single 5D4 which suffers from banding issues. LOL.


The 6D2 specs vs D750 for $1,500 from 2014:


45pt AF -- Soundly crushed by the D750 51pt system which has better intelligent tracking.

26mp -- Almost unnoticeable resolution advantage over D750 24mp particularly since both have the AA filter, and the D750 is still likely to beat it on dynamic range. 6D2 might have the edge on high ISO, a little.

Single Card Slot -- A serious liability, D750 ensures you never lose a shoot. 6D2's lack of this feature is a ticking timebomb - putting your whole shoot, time, energy and money at risk over the reliability of a single card slot.

FPS ??? -- still unknown for the 6D2, but the D750 has 6.5 fps. We can easily assume the 6D2 won't match this because it would be nearly as fast as the 5D4. Remember, the 6D2 exists to try and prove the 5D4 is a great upgrade.

Tilt Screen - they both have it

Video - Same quality, no difference.

DPAF -- Big win for the 6D2 (sarcasm). For $2,000 you get a DSLR that has decent AF capabilities!! BFD!! For $2,000 you can buy a dedicated video camera or competitor that has far better video quality and features. So, this is a wasted feature. $2,000 DPAF rig that does 1080 (laughter).

Viewfinder -- 6D2 "nearly 100%" ...what kind of marketing BS is that? "nearly" can mean anything. It can be 97% like the 6D, it can be 99%. "Nearly" ...D750 100% <--WIN.

Bluetooth/NFC -- uh....these bring the zzzz's

There you have it. Save $500 and get a D750. If you are going to feel pressured to go up market, don't get the 5D4, get the D750 and a D500. That combo is seriously powerful and extremely capable.

So, did you buy two Nikon bodies then?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

For $1999 Canon is going to sell a lot of these. It is pretty much replacing the 5D3 with a better/newer sensor tech. Looks like a very hot seller for Canon.

+1. Compare against Sony/Nikon all you want, but the 6D2 will (broadly) be a 5D3 with...

A much better sensor
Tilty-flippy
DPAF
Wifi/Bluetooth/NFC
(and likely GPS and anti-flicker -- it's just not confirmed yet)

So far, it appears the better AF made the ship but dual slots and 4k did not. Call it nerfing or call it 'strategic product line differentiation' with the 5D4, but I value AF a lot more than a second slot and 4k. All we have left to see on the more important side of the spec sheet would be FPS, buffer, max shutter speed and flash sync.

But even as it stands, I think it will sell just fine.

- A

 

[mb66energy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

@K

seems that you had the chance to play with 6D mark ii and compare it to the Nikon - please write a great article with IQ comparison on a standard scene and send us your link

But you missed some points - just 2 for example

(1) DPAF isn't just for video but also for those who do use standard modern compositions: Main subject in / near the center. Good tracking with a broad field of selectable areas is also important for macro during wind.

(2) The 500 EUR lower price of the 750D has to be compared to the money one has to invest in glass ...

 

[PBguy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If these specs are confirmed then I plan to pre-order. I currently have a 5D Mark II and a 6D. My biggest hopes for the 6D Mark II is improved high ISO noise performance and improved DR along with much better AF. After using a friend's 5D Mark IV I'm excited to have a touch screen lcd with vari-angle. I'm hoping it makes accurate focus faster for astro work.

I'm not at all concerned about it having a single card slot or lack of 4K video. I will be disappointed if it doesn't include built-in GPS though.

I just hope I get it in time to shoot the solar eclipse on August 21st!

 

[rfdesigner]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

@both of you:
GPS receivers have to different start up modes:
cold start without any date except perhaps almanac data (change on sth. like a monthly interval)

warm start where the memory of the GPS receiver holds currently acquired ephemeris (=orbital) data -
these are only valid vor a period of 4 hrs to keep track of changes of the data: Storms and tides change
the height of the water, hence the gravitational forces hence the orbit of the satellites so the corresponding
data has to be updated this often (the above mentioned 4hr - interval)

So your watch maybe makes a warm start or doesn't have to start because it is scanning the satellites in intervals. Cameras are maybe designed to be careful with electric energy for other purposes than taking photos - so maybe weixing's scenario of using a discrete GPS tracker is the best compromise ... getting fast and reliable GPS tracking while keeping the battery of the camera ready for its (the cameras) purpose!

That would suggest Polar are doing something slightly interesting in their updates, or maybe just uploading a series of predicted files

http://support.polar.com/uk-en/support/what_is_assisted_gps_a_gps_how_does_it_work

 

[photogdan]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

And by having such a YUGE variety cameras, they waste a lot of R & D money building these separate solutions.

Yes because Canon don't do any market research to work that out, they just blindly churn out new products with fingers crossed!

I'm positive the market leader does market research. The difference is as the market leader, Canon can take chances... in this case saying no to features offered by their competitors. Yet they will still sell a ton of camera's. The competition HAS TO take chances by adding more features just to try and gain additional market share. Us Canon shooters will only benefit when Canon starts to lose market share and they start to take more chances by adding features instead of omitting them.

It's going to take a lot more than Canon omitting 4k from a camera that was never targeted for video before they lose market share.

 

[Hornet]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I'm surprised to see any manufacturer in 2017 not adding 4K, especially at this price point. I guess all of the energy, vision, and innovation is with the competitors these days, with the exception of Nikon. I don't see anything here that's the slightest bit exciting and that would cause me to upgrade from my existing 6D.

The equivalently price Sony and Nikon bodies do not offer UHD, so why would the Canon?

I'm not sure what would be a Sony equivalent other than maybe the 4-year old A7R with much, much better image quality. Nikon is probably the least innovative camera maker today so not much of an example for Canon to follow.

ok There is no equivalent price FF Sony. Therefore Sony does not offer an equivalent price FF Sony with UHD. Nikon does not offer an equivalent price camera with UHD. No other manufacturers offer FF cameras with UHD. So why are you surprised that Canon is not offering UHD on the 6DII?

Perhaps surprised was the wrong word. Disappointed is better. I see so much innovation with other camera makers as they compete for market share by jamming their cameras with new features at each update. Why shouldn't we demand more from Canon? Is it really ok that 4k video is still probably another 4 years away in a 6DIII? Don't get me wrong, I love my 6D and Canon glass, but I think their go-slow, offer-the-peasants-a-few-scraps approach could, in time, leave them in their competitor's dust.

K
Don't know about you, but I think the dual pixel DPAF is pretty innovative, and the related touchscreen focusing is pretty neat too. Dual pixel technology has been the core of Canon's camera development strategy for a while now, not that everybody has noticed. Putting ADC on the sensor was more catchup than innovation, but you don't hear much about DR anymore, except from people who haven't heard the news. Putting the 45 point AF on the 6DII wasn't all that innovative either but it was a nice add all the same, and doesn't really square with the prediction that Canon was going to nerf the 6DII. For me, the 6DII adds up to more than tossing scraps to the peasants. Canon did pass on 4K and we are all going to see how that all plays out for them. Maybe Sony or somebody else will be offering FF 4K for $2000 a year from now. Maybe not.

I don't mean to die on the hill of 4K, it's just illustrates my larger point which is other manufacturers add new and unexpected updates when they refurbish a model and usually after two years. Since Canon leaves us waiting for 4 years we should expect much more than is on offer here. A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.

 

[DslmNut]

HDMI Output

Looking to know about the HDMI output. Will it be clean 1080 422 10 bit?

Peter

 

[hbr]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I was hoping all the belly-aching about 6DII specs would have run its course in the other thread.

The 6DII is not aimed at...wait for it...videographers, sports shooters or mirrorless fanatics (and yet they still moan about it not meeting their needs). It's not even really aimed at the average 6D owner looking to upgrade (Canon's intended upgrade path there is 5-series). Rather, I believe it's aimed at people like me who have enjoyed their APS-C bodies, want to move to full frame for the image quality but can't justify a 5-series price for their hobby.

Canon persuaded many of its APS-C shooters to go full-frame with the 6D on the strength of its sensor (better even than the 5DIII) and lower price point compared to 5- and 1-series bodies. Canon has now improved the specs enough to persuade its other APS-C shooters who, like me, didn't want to trade the capabilities and ergonomics of bodies like the 70D or 80D for full-frame image quality alone. In other words, we didn't want to downgrade everything else just to upgrade the sensor. That's the only reason I stuck with APS-C. Now, I don't have to give anything up (except probably burst rate). I keep my articulating screen, DPAF and WiFi and get much better AF, plus some extra goodies -- all with a sensor that's better than the previous generation.

Remember how everyone thought the original 6D, which was explicitly marketed as entry-level, was poo-pooed on all the fora as DOA, a guaranteed flop? Totally useless compared to the innovative competition? Especially with second-hand 5DIIs floating around? Well, it sold well. Quite well. Well enough, in fact, to have this long a life cycle. I expect the same for the MKII.

Personally, I'm absolutely thrilled at the spec list! All I needed was an articulating screen and AF points on par with the 70D (19 points, all cross-type). Instead, I get 45 AF points like the 80D? And all cross-type? WOOT! And for less than the original 6D launch price several years ago!?! WOOHOO! Done. Sold. Doing the happy dance.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Canon, please don't poke me in the eye and leave out AFMA. ]

+1

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

It's going to take a lot more than Canon omitting 4k from a camera that was never targeted for video before they lose market share.

+1

Consider this list of things competitors offer that has not sunk Canon's share to date:

IBIS
On chip ADC sensors (Canon did not have this for the first half or so of Sony's A7 rampage)
Wider proliferation of 4K throughout the camera body line
Much lighter and thinner (front to back) bodies
Tility-flippy screens (in FF)
1/32000s electronic shutters
Ability to adapt older lenses, Canon lenses, Nikon lenses, etc.
Pixel shift ultra-high detail mode
Foveon sensors
Eye detect AF
A bajillion AF point autofocus systems
20 fps
Backside sensor illumination
Apochromatic autofocusing lenses
Odd but sexy lenses like 105mm f/1.4 and 28mm f/1.4

...yet Canon marches on. There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :

- A

 

[Loswr]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

CANON has laid an egg with the 6D2.

Yep...a nice, fat, solid gold egg.

Canon is gambling on losing customers like me

Canon doesn't give a sh!t about you. Owners of xxDs, 5DIIs, and other older/lower models will be queueing up to buy it.

Are you enjoying your D750? :

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :

- A

And this is why I keep asking the dozen or so residents who bring up the D750 three times a page why they don't go ahead and buy one. My assumption is, if they ever have the stones to answer honestly, they'll say "Because the Canon is better than the Nikon, because of lenses/ support/ ergonomics/ color/ something else, so I want all the benefits of the Nikon and all the benefits of the Canon, and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum until I get it!".

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.