Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.

In a market with an entrenched market leader with some overwhelming advantages (EF portfolio, huge manufacturing scale, great color science, reliability, brand recognition, resale, 3rd party ecosystem, etc.), the 2nd and 3rd place competitors in that market generally need to spend their time/resources either chipping away at those advantages (Sony with better sensors, Nikon with some niche pro lenses, a merger/acquisition might happen here, etc.) or selling products for less money than they are worth to steal share (the entire A7 line, the D750, etc.).

This is not a difficult concept. I just think some folks are spec-sheet obsessives who truly value 1-3 line items on a spec sheet more than the Canon brand's very long list of unspoken upsides.

- A

 

[tmroper]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]


A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.
[/quote]

Sony has only recently added touchscreens to a couple Alpha cameras (the 6500 and the A9), and even those implementations are limited. And they (the Alphas) still don't have articulating screens. So Sony is years behind in some areas as well. Alas, none of the manufacturers give everybody everything they want.

 

[slclick]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If I was in the market for a new body this would be the ONE. However....

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.

In a market with an entrenched market leader with some overwhelming advantages (EF portfolio, huge manufacturing scale, great color science, reliability, brand recognition, resale, 3rd party ecosystem, etc.), the 2nd and 3rd place competitors in that market generally need to spend their time/resources either chipping away at those advantages (Sony with better sensors, Nikon with some niche pro lenses, a merger/acquisition might happen here, etc.) or selling products for less money than they are worth to steal share (the entire A7 line, the D750, etc.).

This is not a difficult concept. I just think some folks are spec-sheet obsessives who truly value 1-3 line items on a spec sheet more than the Canon brand's very long list of unspoken upsides.

- A

That's... more or less what I said? People want all the benefits of Canon, and all the benefits of all competitors, at once, from Canon. They'll bring up the D750 over and over, or the A9, they'll shout from the mountaintops that if Canon doesn't make the perfect camera they'll switch... but then they're still here. Year after year.

They don't even value lines 1-3 on the spec sheet more than Canon's intangibles - if they did, they'd go buy one of those cameras. They just want to use the spec sheet as a bargaining chip to get a better deal out of Canon, only they aren't in a position to negotiate with Canon, so they complain here.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

<snip>
This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.

Even worse than the GoPro Hero 3? Oh My!!!! it must really be bad!!!!

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

They don't even value lines 1-3 on the spec sheet more than Canon's intangibles - if they did, they'd go buy one of those cameras. They just want to use the spec sheet as a bargaining chip to get a better deal out of Canon, only they aren't in a position to negotiate with Canon, so they complain here.

Well put.

- A

 

[CombatClaret]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.

 

[benny.c]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I've followed this site for years, but this is finally my first post.

I am a EOS 7D owner and also a 4K Video fan. My primary camera for the past two years is the Sony RX10 II. Sure, it has a smaller sensor, but the camera is superior in many ways. I only use the 7D when I need shallow DOF from a 50mm F/1.4.

Canon, hear me out! I would have bought a 7D Mark II on the spot if it had 4K. I would have bought an 80D on the spot if it had 4K. I would have strongly considered a 5D Mark IV if it didn't have a 1.73x Crop for 4K in MJPEG. (Seriously, I might as well just get a GH5 with that kind of crop!)

It's very disappointing that the rumour regarding the improved crop for the 5D Mark IV wasn't true. That would have made way for the 6D Mark II to have a 1:1 4K Video Mode (cropped). But, it was obvious when the 5D IV rumour was debunked that the 6D II would never have 4K, for it would end up with a better crop than the 5D IV (8.8 of 26MP versus 8.8 of 30MP). Perhaps the 6D Mark II will have the best 1080p Canon has ever put in an SLR, but that won't be enough for me to consider what will otherwise be a great camera.

I'm more and more convinced that Canon isn't concerned with innovating in this field. It seems that the Canon sensor technology just hasn't progressed enough. Either that, or internal marketing is really limiting what gets released. I do like Canon colour better, but with the EOSHD Colour, the RX10 II is performing well as my first non-Canon camera and I would strongly consider an Sony a6500 sometime this year. As a casual shooter with occasional semi-pro engagements, it's unlikely I will ever return to the Canon fold if I start investing in Sony glass.

That makes me sad, because I still feel like a Canon guy even though the bulk of my recent shooting has been on a Sony bridge camera. Hopefully, something from Canon will actually surprise me this year.

 

[dak723]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

There are certainly things on that list above we'd all love to have, but Canon (apparently) has done the market research to understand which things folks would leave Canon for, and I'm just guessing some far more basic things (Color, video AF, resale value, reliability, service, EF portfolio, etc.) are trumping the wishes of the spec-sheet-obsessed masses that dwell in internet forums. :

- A

And this is why I keep asking the dozen or so residents who bring up the D750 three times a page why they don't go ahead and buy one. My assumption is, if they ever have the stones to answer honestly, they'll say "Because the Canon is better than the Nikon, because of lenses/ support/ ergonomics/ color/ something else, so I want all the benefits of the Nikon and all the benefits of the Canon, and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum until I get it!".

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.

Because they don't really care that much. If they did they would: A) Buy the Nikon or Sony (or whatever they think is better). B) Write, email, tweet, phone or communicate with Canon about their wishes. How many of these whining complainers contacted Canon in the past 3 years or so and communicated what they wanted to see in the 6D - or asked how they could become part of their market research? My guess would be zero.

The best thing to do is to IGNORE THEIR POSTS, so that people who want to have a real discussion can do so. Please, do not feed the trolls.

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Because for all the blustering about the D750, no one who talks about it seems to actually buy it. No one will even acknowledge my posts asking why they don't buy it. They do continue to whine about Canon, though.

In a market with an entrenched market leader with some overwhelming advantages (EF portfolio, huge manufacturing scale, great color science, reliability, brand recognition, resale, 3rd party ecosystem, etc.), the 2nd and 3rd place competitors in that market generally need to spend their time/resources either chipping away at those advantages (Sony with better sensors, Nikon with some niche pro lenses, a merger/acquisition might happen here, etc.) or selling products for less money than they are worth to steal share (the entire A7 line, the D750, etc.).

This is not a difficult concept. I just think some folks are spec-sheet obsessives who truly value 1-3 line items on a spec sheet more than the Canon brand's very long list of unspoken upsides.

- A

That's... more or less what I said? People want all the benefits of Canon, and all the benefits of all competitors, at once, from Canon. They'll bring up the D750 over and over, or the A9, they'll shout from the mountaintops that if Canon doesn't make the perfect camera they'll switch... but then they're still here. Year after year.

They don't even value lines 1-3 on the spec sheet more than Canon's intangibles - if they did, they'd go buy one of those cameras. They just want to use the spec sheet as a bargaining chip to get a better deal out of Canon, only they aren't in a position to negotiate with Canon, so they complain here.

Yes, for some posters, the script seems to be to explain to us over and over again how incompetent Canon management is blighting our world by getting us to buy clearly inferior Canon equipment. It has to do with helping the rest of us see the Light and force the hapless incompetents at Canon to do the right thing, all the while making it clear how little they respect anyone who disagrees with them. Only they understand what is going on. It doesn't seem to have much to do with finding good camera equipment and learning how to use it well. It doesn't even seem to have much to with changing anybody's mind. It is about preaching in the Wilderness to those who cannot understand. That is the way that they will save the photographic world. Or not.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Introductory models compete heavily on price. Since the competition for the introductory FF model is the Nikon D750 at $1500, I expect to see something similar, and certainly under $2000 US......

OMG! I finally (sort of) guessed the price of a new model! After years of poor guesses, this one was close! Obviously Canon is doomed!!!!!

 

[timglowik]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)

 

[BillB]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

A touch screen has been on phones, and other cameras, for years, as well as articulating screens. This update reminds me a lot of the 5D4. We waited 4 years to get a camera that was almost two years behind it competitors at release, and with the worse implimented 4K ever. Expect more. Demand more.

Sony has only recently added touchscreens to a couple Alpha cameras (the 6500 and the A9), and even those implementations are limited. And they (the Alphas) still don't have articulating screens. So Sony is years behind in some areas as well. Alas, none of the manufacturers give everybody everything they want.
[/quote]

Touchscreens themselves are not the important feature. The key new development is focusing the lens by touching the part of the image on the screen that you want to be in focus. Touchscreen focusing is the part that is new. And that is based on Canon's dual pixel technology. Very big deal for video, and very helpful for still photography as well.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.

Please explain this 'cannibalization' of which you speak. If someone buys a 6DII instead of a 5DIV, how does Canon lose?

 

[Loswr]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Some nice specs .. but also some not so nice.. for 2000 USD you'd expect 2 memory card slots and 4k video ... 4k isn't dealbreaker for me .. the 2nd missing sd-card slot is - hope this rumor isn't true - since we already have quite a bit fuji equipment, but need to replace our current 6ds and a 5d3 .. i guess fuji and sony will be the future since i am also not blown away by the 5d iv (which i own ...) - sony a9 looks pretty tempting .. Canon has to stop competing with their own products and has to start competing with other brands .. Getting disappointet and disappointed for a few years now .. (since the release of the 5d3 nothing mindblowing)

H&G

 

[sarah]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

My situation: I have a 400D (Rebel XTi) and the 100 2.8 Macro (the old, non-L version) as well as some legacy M42 glass lying around and want to get startet with photography once again. I am currently waiting for what Canon has to offer with the 6D II, because I am currently looking into "switching" to Nikon, Pentax or Sony. Each of them has their weaknesses, but for me doing mostly landscape and available light with many high contrast situations, the poor dynamic range of the 6D is a deal breaker. Even the 80D with the new ADC on-sensor is 1 1/2 stops worse than a Nikon D7200 or D750 and the 5D Mk IV being only okay (still 1 stop behind the APS-C Nikon D7200 or a D750).

I really hope that Canon does step up their game with the 6D II and the new sensor, as quite honestly, nothing matches the supply of available glass for Canon.

The missing card slot.. is kinda.. mehh.. 4k.. I don't do video, so.. yeah.

One last point: I personally don't mind buying a more expensive body when good glass is available for less then e.g. on the Nikon or Sony side (with Pentax not having good glass available at all for a multitude of focal lengths, but having IBIS, which also is a small dealbreaker). I invest in a Camera SYSTEM, not a body.

 

[ScottyP]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

They met my major requirement with the much-improved AF. Provided the high ISO image quality with this sensor is at least as good as the 6d1, and that they haven't gone away from illuminated red AF points, I am a buyer.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.

Please explain this 'cannibalization' of which you speak. If someone buys a 6DII instead of a 5DIV, how does Canon lose?

Let me explain it to you....

I have X amount of dollars that I am willing to spend......

For X dollars, I can get a 5D4 and a lens.......

The 6D2 comes out at a lower price and "cannibalizes" sales of the 5D4.....

I spend my X dollars on a 6D2 and TWO lenses....

Canon cries all the way to the bank.....

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

If dual card slots in the 6dmkii would cannibalize Canon's other sales, adding 4k would be skinning the body and then wearing it while dancing.

Please explain this 'cannibalization' of which you speak. If someone buys a 6DII instead of a 5DIV, how does Canon lose?

Let me explain it to you....

I have X amount of dollars that I am willing to spend......

For X dollars, I can get a 5D4 and a lens.......

The 6D2 comes out at a lower price and "cannibalizes" sales of the 5D4.....

I spend my X dollars on a 6D2 and TWO lenses....

Canon cries all the way to the bank.....

...and you shoot for four days, look online, see a picture taken with a third lens, and decide you need that lens too. And as long as you're shopping again, the 80d would be a great backup body, and you might as well get a couple of STM crop lenses to go with. But they're cheap and good and will save wear and tear on your FF, so it's like you're saving money!

...or is that just me?

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Let me start by saying that (unless the so far unrevealed specs are really bad) that I will get a 6D2. I will be happy with it, I will take lots of pictures with it, some great, some real stinkers.... About .1% of the time I will shoot video with it.

The specs revealed so far all look great and in line with what I would expect for a camera in that price range with one notable exception. It does not have 4K. Also, is the slot UHS-1 or UHS-2?

For me, 4K is not a deal breaker, but I do feel that for a camera at this level, it should have more than 2K. If it had 2.7K, I would have been happy because that gives me wiggle room when editing to produce 2K content. So many before me have expressed outrage, made predictions of doom, or made dire threats over the issue.... so much so that the subject has become a matter of ridicule on the forum.

One thing for all of us to consider is that WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE INTERNAL ARCHITECTURE OF THE SENSOR IS. There may well be a solid technical reason why you need dual digic processors to handle 4K video. Perhaps the reason for that comes down to a choice of either stills quality or having 4K. The thing is, WE DO NOT KNOW!

Perhaps Canon could have done 4K with a single Digic processor, but now we have to ask ourselves about the heat load on the chips and sensor. Perhaps Canon decided to leave it out so that everyone with a 6D who shot long video clips did not have the camera go into thermal shutdown... like certain other cameras.... The thing is, WE DO NOT KNOW!

So we second guess and call each other and Canon names because 4K is missing. None of us have the information required to make an informed decision, but many of us are prepared to say that we know better without the technical data, without the sales data, without the service data, on a camera that none of us have ever seen or touched, and has not even had the full specs released yet.