'Revolutionary' Dual Pixel AF Explained

[Lee Jay]

The supported lens box has some very disconcerting information. I'm wondering about 3rd party lenses that should work but will be in contrast-detect just because they aren't "supported". Also, what's the point of having this function work at f/11 if it doesn't work with teleconverters? Who has a "supported" bare f/11 lens?

I assume for continuous focus while shooting video.

Pffft...I want it so I can use a 2x TC on an f/5.6 lens.

That would be cool. A 400mm f/5.6 + 2.0x TC combo is ~15% the price of the 800mm f/5.6.

And...might produce 15% the quality? ;P

The 400/5.6 is optically superior to the ancient and badly out-of-date 100-400L, and I got this from the 100-400L + 2x TC. Fortunately, the moon doesn't move too fast for the T2i's contrast-detect focusing.

http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

 

[jrista]

The supported lens box has some very disconcerting information. I'm wondering about 3rd party lenses that should work but will be in contrast-detect just because they aren't "supported". Also, what's the point of having this function work at f/11 if it doesn't work with teleconverters? Who has a "supported" bare f/11 lens?

I assume for continuous focus while shooting video.

Pffft...I want it so I can use a 2x TC on an f/5.6 lens.

That would be cool. A 400mm f/5.6 + 2.0x TC combo is ~15% the price of the 800mm f/5.6.

And...might produce 15% the quality? ;P

The 400/5.6 is optically superior to the ancient and badly out-of-date 100-400L, and I got this from the 100-400L + 2x TC. Fortunately, the moon doesn't move too fast for the T2i's contrast-detect focusing.

http://photos.imageevent.com/sipphoto/samplepictures/T2i__3574%20edited.jpg

Hah, I was just messing around. I know the 400/5.6 is actually quite good for what it is. That moon is actually pretty good for a 100-400 (surprising, even). Probably a little sharper than these, which were all taken with a 300 f/2.8 L II + 2x TC III + Kenko 1.4x (840mm) and run through Nik Dfine 2 for cleanup:

http://i.imgur.com/HltlvDp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OjS8MX8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q6Gcwpv.jpg

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

Am i the only one who prefers shooting with the optical viewfinder, even if live view is tzhe same speed? I think its not long anymore til Canon only releases only mirrorless cameras if the AF speed is the same. And then people like me can pay another 899$ or whatever for an electronic viewfinder

No, you are not the only one. But, I am increasingly thinking I am more of a dinosaur than I realize (But then again, that happens every time I look in the mirror anyway).

I get that Canon is trying to make live view as useful and accurate as an optical viewfinder, but I hope they don't start to compromise optical viewfinder performance. Sorry, but I just don't see how live view can ever compete with the ergonomics of a viewfinder especially with longer lenses and in bright light.

....

I totally agree. Using the back screen to track action on the field, a bird in flight, or any other fast moving object just don't work. And I had a SONY with an electronic image in the viewfinder and (for us old guys) I definitely prefer something that doesn't require me to use readers.

Just a thought - is fast moving too fast for a 3rd party firmware to lift the mirror and autofocus with dual pixel AF at a preselected location on the sensor?

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

Birds in flight, you say? If this video doesn't convince you how fast Dual Pixel PDAF on the 70D is, I don't know what will. It can track a BIF over a field (2nd video from the top of the page, around the 0:46 mark): http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/70d/info/af-tech/index.html

After seeing this I'm even more convinced now about this revolutionary tech. 8)

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

From the PDAF PDF:

Miyanari: “Even new EF lenses equipped with USM and STM that
had fast AF drive already, it could be proven that they were even faster,
and amongst the lenses that supported Dual Pixel CMOS AF, in particular
lenses developed awhile ago, and low priced lenses, you will find that the
effect of Dual Pixel CMOS AF is quite significant.”

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Birds in flight, you say? If this video doesn't convince you how fast Dual Pixel PDAF on the 70D is, I don't know what will. It can track a BIF over a field (2nd video from the top of the page, around the 0:46 mark): http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/70d/info/af-tech/index.html

After seeing this I'm even more convinced now about this revolutionary tech. 8)

That is pretty impressive. Combine 5D3 ML RAW video quality with that AF and that would be some handy video beast making some reallllly difficult wildlife/macro action stuff remarkable less crazy near impossible to pull off.

 

[danski0224]

Birds in flight, you say? If this video doesn't convince you how fast Dual Pixel PDAF on the 70D is, I don't know what will. It can track a BIF over a field (2nd video from the top of the page, around the 0:46 mark): http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/70d/info/af-tech/index.html

After seeing this I'm even more convinced now about this revolutionary tech. 8)

That looks pretty impressive.

I wonder how it would work as a series of still shots instead of a movie.

Does this obsolete the RGB AF focus stuff in the 1DX, if Canon chooses to enable it in firmware for a given camera model?

Looks like there may be some interesting new releases in the near future.

 

[Marsu42]

Does this obsolete the RGB AF focus stuff in the 1DX, if Canon chooses to enable it in firmware for a given camera model?

Afaik rgb metering is a hardware feature, and only important for very specific situations - usually the good ol' Canon metering does a good job, that's why this particular feature is seldom mentioned by people migrating to Nikon who have rgb metering on more cameras than their top models.

 

[sandymandy]

I think the advantage of the optical viewfinder is that u really engulge in a special mental state seeing only the situation u want to shoot and only blackness all around like in a state of bliss

 

[iMagic]

Excuse my ignorance but how will spot/point AF be possible? Offhand i am thinking that in those situations wouldnt the current AF system be preferable?

 

[Marsu42]

Excuse my ignorance but how will spot/point AF be possible? Offhand i am thinking that in those situations wouldnt the current AF system be preferable?

Doesn't seem to be a problem for me to be done in live view, it's just how the camera fw evaluates the scene. Plus the 70d could link spot to the af point, something only seen in the 1d series

I think the advantage of the optical viewfinder is...

... that:
* you can hold the camera/lens properly w/o fatigue
* since the gadget is near your head, it's much more natural coordination just like "looking" w/o dslr
* you see something at all in bright sunlight
* the perceived ovf frame looks larger than the lcd at 20cm distance
* an ovf doesn't draw battery power

The main advantage of the live view is that you can enhance the display with multiple information, specifically focus peaking, zebras & histogram, this is also something I'd like to see in an evf. Plus the 70d can fast af anywhere, admittedly a very large advantage over say the miniature af point spread like 5d2/6d.

 

[gruhl28]

I'm concerned about the 100mm f/2.8 Macro (non-IS), which I own. This is a currently sold lens, and the document said that dual pixel would support all current lenses, but the macro is on the list of lenses that are not fully supported. This seems like a contradiction. This is the only high quality current lens that I noticed on the list that is not fully supported.

If the lens on that list has USM, it says USM. The 100/2.8 Macro is listed as EF100mm f/2.8 Macro, with no USM mentioned. So it looks like its this 100mm macro which is not fully compatible:

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/ef/data/macro/ef_100_28macro.html

The current non-L 100mm macro should be fine:

[quote author=Canon]
All of Canon’s current range of EF and EF-S lenses are compatible with the Dual Pixel CMOS AF system.

[/quote]

Thanks, rs, I didn't realize there was an older 100mm macro. I didn't think to look at USM vs. non-USM

 

[sagittariansrock]

I think the advantage of the optical viewfinder is...

... that:
* you can hold the camera/lens properly w/o fatigue
* since the gadget is near your head, it's much more natural coordination just like "looking" w/o dslr
* you see something at all in bright sunlight
* the perceived ovf frame looks larger than the lcd at 20cm distance
* an ovf doesn't draw battery power

The main advantage of the live view is that you can enhance the display with multiple information, specifically focus peaking, zebras & histogram, this is also something I'd like to see in an evf. Plus the 70d can fast af anywhere, admittedly a very large advantage over say the miniature af point spread like 5d2/6d.

Those are advantages of an OVF over the LCD screen. However, those no longer hold for a proper EVF (except for battery consumption). By the way, I do think it might cost less to make a comparable EVF instead of an OVF with the pentaprism assembly and lenses already, and I am sure it will cost even less in the future since unlike optics, electronics will keep getting cheaper up to a point.

 

[Marsu42]

Those are advantages of an OVF over the LCD screen.

Correct, because this thread is about the 70d-style dual af.

However, those no longer hold for a proper EVF (except for battery consumption).

I'm also very sure evf will surpass ovf sooner or later, with equal optical quality plus many added features. But imho this point isn't reached yet, every time I look though a Sony "pro" camera with evf I'm getting the creeps, the image simply doesn't come close to what I see with my bare eyes.