currently have a 30D myself. hoping for fine ISO 12800...I do quite some moonless nightsky photography...and low light photography in general...
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Dave said:In my case the problem is, that my 350D IS going to stop takting pictures very soon I guess... And I'm waiting for the 7D2 or the 5D3 since I definitley want to have flip screen.
Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D. I really hope they don't,
Dave said:Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D. I really hope they don't,
I really hope - and I'm quite(!!!) sure - they will. This is the future every SLR release in the past months has one and I'm sure the new 5D will go in line with it.
I know the discussion in our German forum. Some people are whining around... But imo that is kind of ridiculous, to resign a cam because of a flip screen.
It's like like resigning a car because it has air condition that you don't need.
If you don't want flip screen: Don't use it! It's that simple! And I would count on the new 1D.
It's the same like the discussion 30 years ago: "Ughhhh who needs autofocus? I'm a professionel I focous by hand!"
sb said:Dave said:In my case the problem is, that my 350D IS going to stop takting pictures very soon I guess... And I'm waiting for the 7D2 or the 5D3 since I definitley want to have flip screen.
Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D. I really hope they don't, because I'd then have to move up to 1D line just to get rid of it.
iaind said:How about 5dIII with AF,card slots and built in grip from 1D IV plus upgrades in. sensor and dual chips.
Gothmoth said:Dave said:Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D. I really hope they don't,
I really hope - and I'm quite(!!!) sure - they will. This is the future every SLR release in the past months has one and I'm sure the new 5D will go in line with it.
I know the discussion in our German forum. Some people are whining around... But imo that is kind of ridiculous, to resign a cam because of a flip screen.
It's like like resigning a car because it has air condition that you don't need.
If you don't want flip screen: Don't use it! It's that simple! And I would count on the new 1D.
It's the same like the discussion 30 years ago: "Ughhhh who needs autofocus? I'm a professionel I focous by hand!"
no it´s not exactly the same discussion.
have a look at ebay, search for broken cameras.
look for example at the G5... what is broken?
most of the time the swivel LCD screen.
swivel displays are always a weak point in the design.
i see the use of a swivel LCD but im not sure if i would want it on a PRO body that has to suffer some abuse.
iaind said:If you dont want video are you going to revert to 1D(s)III?
I feel the same way, I really hope they won't put a flip screen on the 5/7D.sb said:Dave said:In my case the problem is, that my 350D IS going to stop takting pictures very soon I guess... And I'm waiting for the 7D2 or the 5D3 since I definitley want to have flip screen.
Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D. I really hope they don't, because I'd then have to move up to 1D line just to get rid of it.
sb said:Flip screen is a consumer feature and I'd be shocked if they put it in 7D and 5D.
Haydn1971 said:moreorless said:It doesnt "have to" but if the sensor is outspected by the 650D and/or 70D then its likely many people will buy those models instead.
Nonsense, people don't buy the 7D just for the sensor, by that logic why would anyone pay £1200 for the 18mpx 7D when they can get the 550D with the same 18mpx sensor for just over £500 !
It's like telling me to trade my 450D in for a Sony NEX5 because it's got a better sensor ! The 7D isn't a consumer camera, unlike the entry level models, it doesn't compete in the shop window on pixels per pound, number of fancy picture modes and meaningless word count on the camera body.
Someone in the market for a 7D isn't gonna cut a corner and say, damn, I'll take that fancy 22mpx Canon 650D and save the extra £600 ! They want a 7D for a specific job, that's better AF, faster frame rates, bigger picture buffer, built in flash transmitter, shared batteries with their 5DII, similar handling to their 5DII or any combination of he aforementioned.
I'll show my backside in Harrods window if a 7D appears this side of Xmas 2011, in fact, I'd be surprised to see a 7D before the 650D or 70D... Common sense is heading towards a 1D(s) announced in Autumn ready for Winter, a 5D & 650D in spring 2012 (Olympic big sell on the 650D), I'd suggest a 70D by autumn 2012, with a new 7D sometime in the winter 2012/13
moreorless said:People obviously don't buy the 7D just for the sensor given that other crop models share it but I don't see whats unreasonable in thinking that if the 650D or 70D outspec it with a new sensor that will cost Canon 7D sales.
moreorless said:The fact is that most 7D buyers are amatures and for many/most of them its features are likely to be prefferable rather than essential. If other Canon crop models offer a superior sensor that will almost definately lead to some buyers going for them instead rather than paying a prenium for the 7D.
moreorless said:To have the lower end model include the high end models sensor at a later date isnt anything new, to have the lower end model preview that sensor is. It wouldnt just cost Canon 7D sales but might potentially damage the hype around the 7D mark 2 if its just going to be recycling a sensor form an entry level body.
Yes he is right. Canon 7D sells hundred (thousands?) times more to amateurs than to professionals. Just like 5DmII. Just check the selling figures.Haydn1971 said:Let them eat cake ! Where do you get the idea that the 7D is bought mostly by amateurs ? You need to be pretty serious or wealthy to buy a 7D over a £500 camera. In my large circle of friends, several have DSLR's, perhaps a couple have invested more than £1500 in body and lenses, another one is pretty keen and has 3 Nikon bodies (1 FF), some expensive £2k lenses, however most have bought entry level kits, plus a second lens.moreorless said:The fact is that most 7D buyers are amatures and for many/most of them its features are likely to be prefferable rather than essential.
Yes there is something stopping Canon to develop and produce 3 new sensors in the 1st half of 2012: cost!Haydn1971 said:You assume that a 7DII would come out with the same sensor as the 650D/70D, the 7D debuted 12 months after the 15mpx 50D and 6 months after the 500D, there's nothing stopping canon dropping a 20-22mpx sensor in the 650D in say spring, a 23-25mpx sensor in the 70D in say summer 2012, then drop a 30mpx sensor in the 7DII say in late 2012, then gradually play catch up with the 700D, 750D, 800D, 80D, 90D through 2013-2015 with a view to a 7DIII in 2016 ready for the summer olympics again.
The only people getting hung up on sensors on the 7D would be people who wouldn't be buying one anyways... Net loss to Canon.... Nil ! Because the people who buy the 7D know that a sensor doesn't make the camera, which is why Nikon still sell 12mpx FF bodies and through 2010 was selling a 14mpx entry level D3100, along with the D5000 & D90 that had a 12mpx sensor, with the high end APS-C D7000 leapfrogging the entry level kit with a 16mpx sensor.
I totally agree with you on that point! And I would never try to argue that I am taking better pictures than somebody else just because I have a "better" camera. All what I know is that this camera give me the possibility to take some shots that I would not be able to do with lower models. Maybe that's why I am still an amateur. (off topic: and I think it is even more true about lenses! I love mine for that!! ;D)Haydn1971 said:Nothing in life is black and white, there are a whole range of skills and pricing points, to dismiss a 7D as an amateur camera is nothing but elitist rubbish, the same rubbish that convinces bad photographers that a better camera will improve their pictures... If you have the eye for it, you can take a good photo with a camera phone as has been demonstrated in the photo threads by the chap posting as pinnacle photography, some great pictures taken with a pont and shot.
YoukY63 said:That's why today we only have 1 APS-C sensor remaining.
Haydn1971 said:Nothing in life is black and white, there are a whole range of skills and pricing points, to dismiss a 7D as an amateur camera is nothing but elitist rubbish, the same rubbish that convinces bad photographers that a better camera will improve their pictures... If you have the eye for it, you can take a good photo with a camera phone as has been demonstrated in the photo threads by the chap posting as pinnacle photography, some great pictures taken with a pont and shot.
With regard to sensors, any idea of the number of sensor production lines Canon have ? No ? Neither have I, but I'm damn sure that they don't have one line turning out one size, I'd expect several lines pumping out different sizes, just as Intel and AMD do with CPU chips... A quick search on google suggests the bulk price of APS-C sensors was about $70 in 2010, I'd expect that just like CPU's the fail rate goes up with more complex chips, thus as a line matures, the failure rate reduces, so a 18mpx chip today is cheap, two years back would have been expensive, Sony has just launched a 24mpx chip to mainstream products, that suggests to me that higher mpx chips are possible at a price premium. Given the use of dual Digic 4 chips in higher end products, it's a fair assumption that this is a premium priced unit that differentiates the ranges, ramps up the price and makes it harder for a lesser single Digic equipped camera to compete... I don't see a single Digic 5 based camera with a higher mpx sensor getting the frame rates that a dual Digic 4 can with a lower mpx sensor, thus a. 70D performing better than a 7D isn't likely and if technically possible, is likely to be crippled by Canon to protect the 7D
I'm sure you have evidence from Canon to prove me otherwise, but in all fairness, it's just my opinion vs another opinion and of course, we both see ourselves as being correctly informed. I'll say it again, I don't see the 7DII coming anytime soon, or before a 650D, perhaps even a 70D... Just go buy a 7D now, whilst they are cheap, because the new one will be 20-30% more expensive for a few months