There may be a higher-end APS-C mirrorless announced in late 2020, early 2021 [CR2]

1D4

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 5, 2020
77
146
If I keep upgrading, my 'second body' collection is going to make my wife beat me to death with a monopod out of my 'collection' of those...

I had Rebel XT and bought a 40D. The Rebel XT became my second body.

Then along comes the 7D2. The 40D becomes my second body.

Then along comes the 5D4. The 7D2 becomes the second body but doesn't get used much because OMG the 5D4 and FF OMGWTFBBQ.

The along comes the EOS-R. 5D4 says 'oh hell no' and the tussle ensues. The battle for primary body continues to this day.

Now R5 is on its way and the EOS-R and 5D4 and staring at each other and foot tapping..

Sell the wife, buy the mythical R7...problem solved ;)
 

docsmith

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 17, 2010
1,043
479
Whether it is called a M5 II or M1 does not really matter to me, but I would love an M-mount 7D I/II replacement. I really enjoy the M6 II. You can keep the sensor and a number of other features, but add improved weather sealing, IBIS (my M camera is what I use for video), a bit better AF (speed/tracking/etc), a few higher end EF-m lenses and I will gladly upgrade.

Personally, an M5 II with built in EVF but the same general size as the M5/6 and an M1 that is a bit larger in the hands would be great, if anyone where to ask me....which they don't...ever. ;)
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,840
985
UK
www.flickr.com
Canon painted themselves into a corner with the R mount and its lack of interchangeability with other mounts/formats. It will be interesting to see if and how they address this going forward. It seems like no matter what path they take, it carries a lot of risk at a time when a shrinking market is unforgiving.

The problem Canon have is that they have two incompatible lens mounts, EF-M for APS-S and R for Full-frame. Sony use a single mount for both as do Nikon now.

It's surely logical to presume they knew what they were doing. A lot has been made on these forums about the 'lack of an upgrade path' from M to R, but Canon knew that limitation would exist, and it seems they decided it wasn't as important as other factors.

My take has always been, APS-C means M, FF now means RF. Canon seems to think the former is mostly about small size. Maybe it'll change a bit as DSLR sales decline relative to MILC, but I'd still be surprised by an APS-C RF body. The new superteles seem to point to their strategy for budget-minded birders.
 

HenryL

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 1, 2020
214
521
Naaah, the biggest problem with the M6 Mk II is that it's relatively slow and kludgy to adjust settings on the fly.

The main problem with BIFs is the EVF - it's not responsive enough. But the AF actually tracks pretty well, otherwise.
Well, in fairness all fairness yes - if you can keep a focus point on the bird, AND provided it doesn't fly behind a tree or other obstacle, it can do an ok job. As soon as either one of those things happens, focus is gone and the lens racks out and the opportunity is gone. I have tried and tried over these last few months with the M6II and 100-400II and it's just not viable for this. The 7DII outperforms it many times over.

Don't get me wrong, I do thoroughly enjoy the camera, I have no problem with the EVF, and for bird on a branch, tracking grandkids on a bike, etc, it's awesome. I find the PQ to be superior to the 7DII overall, and I also find the files easier to work with compared to the older camera. When it's crunch time, though, I'm reaching for the 7DII every time. It just works.
 

bbasiaga

Canon Shooter
Nov 15, 2011
419
447
USA
I'm struggling with the idea of an RF-S lens. The distance to the sensor from the bayonet would still have to be the same as the RF lens, since the mount/sensor relationship is the same as you'd need in order to maintain compatibility with the full frame lenses. I suppose the rear glass could still come in to the body farther on account of needing a smaller image circle. It would even still mount on a FF variant although it wouldn't cover the whole sensor. I guess you'd be somewhat limited in the size savings as the RF mount is bigger than the EF mount, so the smallest RF lens will still be bigger. But maybe it could work as an ecosystem. Will be exciting to see.
 

BeenThere

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2012
1,238
663
Eastern Shore
They just passed the perfect opportunity to do this if they were going to but they gave us the 100-500L instead.
Yeah, but an R/APS-C sensor body was not on the horizon when it was released. I guess it could have been used in crop mode on theR5, but underwhelming in pixel density. It could still happen, but agree low probability.
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,057
2,327
Well, in fairness all fairness yes - if you can keep a focus point on the bird, AND provided it doesn't fly behind a tree or other obstacle, it can do an ok job. As soon as either one of those things happens, focus is gone and the lens racks out and the opportunity is gone. I have tried and tried over these last few months with the M6II and 100-400II and it's just not viable for this. The 7DII outperforms it many times over.

Don't get me wrong, I do thoroughly enjoy the camera, I have no problem with the EVF, and for bird on a branch, tracking grandkids on a bike, etc, it's awesome. I find the PQ to be superior to the 7DII overall, and I also find the files easier to work with compared to the older camera. When it's crunch time, though, I'm reaching for the 7DII every time. It just works.


I had good results with my 7D2 as well. Then I got my 5D4 and my keeper rate went through the roof. I felt like I was cheating.
 
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Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,594
1,913
Hamburg, Germany
I don't feel like trying to tie everything into the old DSLR lineup is that much good.

The R5 and R6 have similarities to the 5D and 6D series, but the are also very much different.

To me it seems many people are looking for a 7D II upgrade for completely different reasons. Somehow I don't feel like all of them will get what they want.

A release of an APS-C RF camera would certainly send quite a weird message, unless they also expand the EF-M lineup at the same time.
 

Keith_Reeder

I really don't mind offending trolls.
Feb 8, 2014
957
469
60
Blyth, NE England
Well, in fairness all fairness yes - if you can keep a focus point on the bird, AND provided it doesn't fly behind a tree or other obstacle, it can do an ok job. As soon as either one of those things happens, focus is gone and the lens racks out and the opportunity is gone. I have tried and tried over these last few months with the M6II and 100-400II and it's just not viable for this. The 7DII outperforms it many times over.

Don't get me wrong, I do thoroughly enjoy the camera, I have no problem with the EVF, and for bird on a branch, tracking grandkids on a bike, etc, it's awesome. I find the PQ to be superior to the 7DII overall, and I also find the files easier to work with compared to the older camera. When it's crunch time, though, I'm reaching for the 7DII every time. It just works.
We're on the same page, I think - I have had some excellent days with the M6 Mk II - I did a whole day shoot of rutting deer in the UK last year with it and the 100-400mm, and it performed beyond my expectations. But I still find the inability to quickly and intuitively change settings I can literally change with my eyes shut on my DSLRs, a downside.

Aside from that, it's just a matter of having realistic expectations, I think - I didn't expect it to out-perform my 1-Dx (and I wasn't disappointed on that score! ;) ) - and you make a valid point about the lens racking out and not recovering focus in anything like a useful amount of time. I put that down to the small battery, which I was asking a lot of to drive the 100-400mm as well as my DSLRs do.

I also agree that the quality of the files off the camera is very impressive.
 
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Codebunny

Elil
Sep 5, 2018
801
806
Scotland
The R5 and R6 have similarities to the 5D and 6D series, but the are also very much different.

The R6 seems to have went up market a little bit but then they also decided to give it a lesser body just to make the R5 better rather than let the sensors separate them. I don't know if a R7 APS-C body fits anymore with there being a strong suggestion of a full FF lineup and even a sub $1000 FF body.
 
Mar 12, 2017
1
0
A Canon R7 is exactly what i was hoping for. I love the 1120mm field of view i'm getting with mit 7D2+1.4TCIII+500mmF4II and an upgrade to full frame would be much more expensive than a R7.

Canon doesn't even have to build RF-S lenses. They could just build small and affordable lenses which are slightly to small for full frame sensors but ideal for APS-C like the 24-105 F4-7.1. Even a switch to a 1.5 crop factor would be possible.

People looking for even smaller cameras and lenses can still buy the EF-M system which is very popular and not going anywhere.
 

HenryL

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 1, 2020
214
521
I had good results with my 7D2 as well. Then I got my 5D4 and my keeper rate went through the roof. I felt like I was cheating.
What a great way to describe it! My experience was similar to yours - but I sold the 5D4 a few months back so brought out the 7D2. They were a great pair, so very similar in control and layout that switching between the two in the field was a breeze.

I am really hoping the R5 will make me miss it just a little less. To be honest, Canon set the bar high with the 5D4 but I'm cautiously optimistic that the new camera won't disappoint.
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
310
196
Calgary
Canon painted themselves into a corner with the R mount and its lack of interchangeability with other mounts/formats. It will be interesting to see if and how they address this going forward. It seems like no matter what path they take, it carries a lot of risk at a time when a shrinking market is unforgiving.

I don't see how Canon painted themselves into a corner. It's only a problem if the existence of the multiple lens mounts result in un-competitiveness or un-sustainability. To me it seems like the EOS M system has it's own following thus resulting in Canon have a larger market than it would have otherwise.
 

Keith_Reeder

I really don't mind offending trolls.
Feb 8, 2014
957
469
60
Blyth, NE England
I was planning a deep space mission to Venus but Canon can't tell me if this new pro APS-C can do 4k 60p at 900F for two hours without overheating. We know the R5 can't handle that. Really Canon...very unprofessional of you. Looks like I'm going to Sony!
But it's very cold in space, so it might be OK as long as you only use it outside, and before you land...
 

davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
305
456
I don't see how Canon painted themselves into a corner. It's only a problem if the existence of the multiple lens mounts result in un-competitiveness or un-sustainability. To me it seems like the EOS M system has it's own following thus resulting in Canon have a larger market than it would have otherwise.

The nice thing about both EF-M and EF-S is they provided an upgrade path to better lenses. I had the terrible kit 18-55 I on my 20D. A while after I got a 60D, and ended up putting a 28-70L on it, knowing I was probably going to move to full frame. And now, I'll probably just stick with an adaptor on a mirrorless body. It's really nice that literally every lens in my bag can be mounted on a R/5/6.

The "problem" with RF on a small body is it's a huge mount. Even RF-S lenses would likely be super chunky at the back. You're just not gonna get something like the EF-M 22 on RF. There'll be a size difference.

EF-M messes with that. So either Canon:
- Has research showing that crop buyers don't move to full frame as often as we all think and will just keep 2 systems
- Plans to consolidate the two somehow
- Hasn't figured out their long term plan yet?
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,057
2,327
What a great way to describe it! My experience was similar to yours - but I sold the 5D4 a few months back so brought out the 7D2. They were a great pair, so very similar in control and layout that switching between the two in the field was a breeze.

I am really hoping the R5 will make me miss it just a little less. To be honest, Canon set the bar high with the 5D4 but I'm cautiously optimistic that the new camera won't disappoint.

Did you sell it to finance the R5? It's such a great camera. I had it out in the yard day before yesterday on my new econo-gimbal birding.

I think you'll be thrilled with the R5. I went from the 5D4 to the EOS-R and had about a three second adjustment period to learn to love the EVF, but the transition in that regard was painless. Some of the other features - like 'touch and drag' auto-focus and edge to edge focus area will win you over before you take the first picture.
 
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