*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

[PaulMackX]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Back to the ULTRA, SUPER NEW or already old...., 3 years in development camera: Canon 5dMk4...

Out of curiosity, how long should a camera be in development? My Canon EOS 7D is/was a great camera, 'despite' being in development from 1987 to 2009. The 7D Mark II is even better, and it was in development from 2009 to 2014.

I'm using the basis that each product line is on an independent development cycle, which I think you were inferring.

I could alternatively use the basis that they are all on the same development life cycle, and that the EOS 80D was in development for just 17 days! Must it be incredible? Or is there a curve? Where's the sweet spot? Ah yes, however long Sony takes.

Anyway, I took from your comment that 3 years in development was a bad thing, and too long, but didn’t see any logic in that.

As for me, the rumoured specifications are very interesting, and I'm now more likely to buy it.

 

[Pebbles]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Already out of date.

 

[Ladislav]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I tried to read most of this thread - especially the part after update but I gave up. Just ton of complains.

In first rumors it was mentioned that IV could be something like 24MP without any 4k - and there was ton of rant that the camera will be terrible with such specs.

Now it seems, that we will get camera that will have 30MP many people were calling for and it will have 4k and we have again ton of rant.

It has only 7fps - wow, not such a surprise with 30MP sensor and most probably single DIGIC chip. Yes, it could have 8-9fps with 24MP but MPs are probably more important for marketing.

It has some 4k features. It was quite clear where the bar for 4k features is after final 1DX2 spec were released and I'm not surprised that it actually has worse spec to make some difference between 5DIV and 1DX2 which cost twice that much.

People simply have unrealistic expectations and need to flood forums with their frustration of not getting the toy they dreamed for.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Is it only me being a bit disappointed about the major MP increase (30 MP)? Not that I don't appreciate MP increase, on the otherhand now we can take it granted the not much improvement in IQ (high iso, dynamic range) compared to 5D III will take place (if any at all).

Dynamic range at low ISOs should improve by a decent amount, and it doesn't really depend on resolution. The 80D has better dynamic range at ISO 100 and 200 than the 1D X and 5D III according to http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm .

I would imagine that individual pixels might see more noise, but the pictures would be cleaner overall (or the same) when downsized. At a certain point, there's no need to have so many pixels when shooting at high ISOs, but it doesn't make the end result worse in practice.

The real downsides are that the sensor is creating more data, which means the camera has to do more to produce the same amount of photos, potentially limiting FPS, and that it requires more storage space.

I don't understand the equalization logic - why would you buy a camera with more megapixels only to downsize the image, so the noise will be the same as older cameras...

It gives you options.
In good lighting noise is less of an issue but you can use the 5DSR to provide greater resolution and options for cropping than the 5D3. In low light you can downsample the 5DSR to match the 5D3 which means you lose nothing.

 

[whothafunk]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Already out of date.

so is your mom.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

hi all.

Canon are about to announce the new 5d series camera in a couple of weeks time and i am sure some of you are eager to find out what specs/improvements it will have.



what i personally want from the sequel to the 5d4 to make it worthwhile to upgrade are the following:


Built in IS in the body
Wifi so i can transfer high res JPEGS to my phone on the fly
dual Compact flash or dual CFast cards(skip sd card slot altogether
8-10fps
30mp+ sensor
DR thats as good or better then the A7r2
1 stop or more better ISO performance compared to 5d3
Able to remotely control the camera and take images using my android phone connected to the camera
AF that matches the 1dxmk2
So far only a handful of the above have been almost confirmed such as the mp count and wifi.

Do note that regardless of what specs is in this camera, it will most likely not be upgraded again for the next 4-5 years. Had canon upgraded there cameras every 2 years, i could live with minimal improvements over the 5d3 but because we will have just this camera for the next 4-5 years, tech and specs will be outdated rapidly especially when the likes of sony keep innovating and churning out new cameras and tech/features almost once a year.


Surely Sony will catch up in the areas it is lacking such as AF and buffer/speed within the next 2 years way in the lifecycle of the 5d4 and possibly surpass it in every shape and form?


That is my worry. It seems that canon are like iOS,. its reliable and does the job well but compared to Android, it is lacking in some killer features and nowadays, Android has a larger market share and more fanbase then iOS now.


Will canon continue to do do incremental updates on there bodies once every 4 years or will they either churn out more incremental updates every 2 years? Or for every 4 years, do a major upgrade/change?


If they include all the stuff i mentioned, that to me is a major update .


What do you guys think?

 

[Maiaibing]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I don't understand the equalization logic - why would you buy a camera with more megapixels only to downsize the image, so the noise will be the same as older cameras...

There's no "equalization logic". And no one ever "downsizes" their pictures. Please understand there is always only your end result - be it a 700x700 instagram posting to a billboard.

In addition noise is not the only factor. In fact I think there's a lot of noise hysteria out there. Just like's there's lots of DR hysteria. We of course all want better, and fortunately we can choose from a wide range of different "packages". However, here MPIX also counts and more is in fact better for a lot of uses.

Apart from that noise, color, DR, WB, banding, anti-flickr etc. - in fact every aspect of the potential output of the 5DS/R - is better than the 5DIII sensor. So in this sense we can have our cake and eat it.

That's why I like to believe the 5DIV will offer even more of an improvement than the 5DS/R sensor - which would make for a real jump up in picture IQ from the 5DIV the 5DIII which we did not get with the 5DIII over the 5DII. Time will tell.

If you want a low MPIX camera with ultra high iso - SONY is there for you.

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

....
No one should worry about blur / shake if the camera is 30MP in reality with good practise Ive rarely seen it with the 5DS and I print often to A3 or larger.
...

The underlined section is the key. Have you been able to get away with "run-and-gun" style shooting with the 5Ds?

Why would I buy the 5DS to do "run & gun". No I bought it mainly for landscape, on a tripod and to be used between 100-400 iso. I have used it on a safari in Africa this year and aside for poor low light shots its held up very well and allowed for cropping heavily when needed and that was without a tripod at all using a bean bag mainly from the open vehicle. Its also a really great portrait camera where I generally use a monopod.

I don't believe a single tool can do everything that's why I also have the 6D and use a 760D sparingly.

 

[Phil Lowe]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.

From a stills point of view, sure, but for those who would use the body for video I think the lack of CFast is a major disappointment.

The rumored 500 Mbps MJPEG video codec represents a bit rate of 62.5 MBps. Here is what a blog at B&H reports:

The Fastest CompactFlash Cards

Because the maximum speed of CompactFlash cards has been capped at 167 MB/s, for a while almost all card manufacturers offer cards capable of peak read and write performance at that speed. The fastest cards will be UDMA 7 and advertised as having maximum read speeds between 160-165 MB/s. Lexar’s fastest line of CompactFlash cards is the Lexar Professional, available in capacities between 16GB and 256GB. Lexar rates these cards as having a 160 MB/s maximum write speed and 155 MB/s maximum read speed, as well as a minimum write speed of 65 MB/s. SanDisk’s Extreme Pro line of cards also offers similar performance of up to 160 MB/s read and 150 MB/s write speeds, while the Transcend Ultimate and Delkin Devices Cinema CompactFlash card lines also offer similar maximum read speeds, though their write speeds are a bit slower than the Lexar and SanDisk cards. All of these cards are as fast as CompactFlash cards are going to get—if you want something faster, you will need a different type of memory card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/fastest-memory-cards-money-can-buy

Any CF card capable of sustained write speeds of 90 MBps or more will be fast enough to record 500 Mbps 4K video, so using the CF format isn't going to be an issue. What is troubling is this nugget from the same blog linked above:

"CompactFlash cards used to be the faster and more professional big brother of SD cards; however, several years ago, the CompactFlash Association announced there would be no more updates to the format, leaving card performance with a glass ceiling."

So while CF will do the job, using CF means that Canon has knowingly built obsolescence into its latest pro camera. That's not comforting.

What is comforting - and something no one appears to be stoked about - is the rumored 4:2:2 color sub-sampling of the video codec. 4:2:2 is most definitely one indicator of a pro video codec, as it is excellent for visual effects work, especially when it comes to pulling clean chroma keys and performing advanced color grading. I could easily see this camera doing professional 4K visual effects work, providing the video quality is on par with the color sub-sampling.

30 MP doesn't excite me, neither does touch screen control (who wants to review images through greasy fingerprint smudges?) And 7 fps in burst mode? Only if they've increased the buffer and taken the write limiter off.

This spec list is a mixed bag, with little to excite everyone. What will turn heads will be the IQ coming out of this camera IF it is clean at high ISO with great DR. IMHO.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

i do not care about video features to be honest

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.

Would something change if I tell you that this 20 users are top D.P in Los Angeles? (Using Sony as on set or B and C camera)

bahahaha. I'd love to see the top 20 DP's in LA using A7's as a B cam.

proof.

This is what I hear every day:
http://billtotolo.blogspot.com/2015/06/sony-a7s-shooting-feature-with-pair-of.html

This is from 2015:
"In the end, I’m extremely pleased with the images we captured. I honestly don’t think
anyone is going to guess we shot on a DSLR. I’m glad we used the a7s under these circumstances.
I’d only consider selling the a7s if Sony releases a version with In Body Image Stabilization, and it would be nice to be able to control ISO in SLog.

As small as the camera is, it gets heavy quickly and using the gimbal all day is
exhausting. In the future I would seriously consider using a readyrig, or easyrig."

and here something for the canon CR masters:
"For a $2,500 camera with high frame rates to be producing sharp 1080p and dynamic range close to an ARRI is quite a feat."
http://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/sony-a7s-dynamic-range-arri-alexa-amira

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/08/25/sony-a7s-a-game-changer-for-film-making/

http://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/1872-we-see-how-good-the-alpha-7s-really-is-in-a-cinema

Back to the ULTRA, SUPER NEW or already old...., 3 years in development camera: Canon 5dMk4...

Lets put what you've put forwards into perspective. The Sony A7S get used in mainstream movies or TV as the 3rd or 4th camera rarely. Look at all the main movies or TV drama shows and Arri Alexas & Amiras dominate followed by Red Dragons. The Alexa Mini is racing off of Arri factory floor and these cameras are lensed by Zeiss, Cookes, Panavision, Leica * Angeniuex in the main. Canon hardly get a look in with the C300 MKII or C500 or with their Cine lenses. That may change with the C700 & Anamorphic lenses but right now they are a bit player high end. Sony most successful camera for TV drama is the F55 which is a solid camera but not user friendly in the Alexa way, its due a new raw recorder which will make it more compelling.

The A7S is an often used tool for internet commercials but frankly its not a serious tool for TV Drama or Features trust me as someone that runs a business at this level the A7S II is not on our shopping list or our competitors.

 

[joshx]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I am not a professional and just shoot environmental portraits of my wife and my daughter's dancing and skating performances. I have three L lenses and a 6d. Also have fuji xt10 and 18-55, 55-200.

I like the new 35mm 1.4 II, and plan to buy it. But I am kind of disappointed on the new 5d iv: no 4k@60p. Can anyone tell me if that is essential for shooting my daughter's performances? Plus I really like Nikon and sony's DR, which I think to be important in shooting environmental portraits. but I looked at nikon and sony offers on 35mm 1.4, unimpressive. I currently have 16-35 f4, 24-70 2.8 and 100mm IS and will certainly add 70-200 2.8 IS and crop body( I just sold my 60D), if I stay with canon. I love how canon camera and lens handle, don't like nikon's gold and sony's orange, but I really don't want to give up IQ and 4K@60p. Certainly, I can go buy the 1D II, but six grand for a camera, I rather put my money on lenses.

Any thoughts will be helpful

 

[AWR]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

CFast will do absolutely nothing for 5D purchasers other than cost us more money. These leaked specs will work very well with CF cards.

From a stills point of view, sure, but for those who would use the body for video I think the lack of CFast is a major disappointment.

The rumored 500 Mbps MJPEG video codec represents a bit rate of 62.5 MBps. Here is what a blog at B&H reports:

The Fastest CompactFlash Cards

Because the maximum speed of CompactFlash cards has been capped at 167 MB/s, for a while almost all card manufacturers offer cards capable of peak read and write performance at that speed. The fastest cards will be UDMA 7 and advertised as having maximum read speeds between 160-165 MB/s. Lexar’s fastest line of CompactFlash cards is the Lexar Professional, available in capacities between 16GB and 256GB. Lexar rates these cards as having a 160 MB/s maximum write speed and 155 MB/s maximum read speed, as well as a minimum write speed of 65 MB/s. SanDisk’s Extreme Pro line of cards also offers similar performance of up to 160 MB/s read and 150 MB/s write speeds, while the Transcend Ultimate and Delkin Devices Cinema CompactFlash card lines also offer similar maximum read speeds, though their write speeds are a bit slower than the Lexar and SanDisk cards. All of these cards are as fast as CompactFlash cards are going to get—if you want something faster, you will need a different type of memory card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/fastest-memory-cards-money-can-buy

Any CF card capable of sustained write speeds of 90 MBps or more will be fast enough to record 500 Mbps 4K video, so using the CF format isn't going to be an issue. What is troubling is this nugget from the same blog linked above:

"CompactFlash cards used to be the faster and more professional big brother of SD cards; however, several years ago, the CompactFlash Association announced there would be no more updates to the format, leaving card performance with a glass ceiling."

So while CF will do the job, using CF means that Canon has knowingly built obsolescence into its latest pro camera. That's not comforting.

What is comforting - and something no one appears to be stoked about - is the rumored 4:2:2 color sub-sampling of the video codec. 4:2:2 is most definitely one indicator of a pro video codec, as it is excellent for visual effects work, especially when it comes to pulling clean chroma keys and performing advanced color grading. I could easily see this camera doing professional 4K visual effects work, providing the video quality is on par with the color sub-sampling.

30 MP doesn't excite me, neither does touch screen control (who wants to review images through greasy fingerprint smudges?) And 7 fps in burst mode? Only if they've increased the buffer and taken the write limiter off.

This spec list is a mixed bag, with little to excite everyone. What will turn heads will be the IQ coming out of this camera IF it is clean at high ISO with great DR. IMHO.

Right, however Magic Lantern has already hit that glass ceiling.
And that's the problem with CF cards.

 

[Loswr]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Gosh, I've not been around CR much recently, I'm surprised how rare this is now. I've read through like twenty pages and this is the first 'most of the photographers I know* have switched to Sony' bullpoop from a new forum user.

Would something change if I tell you that this 20 users are top D.P in Los Angeles?

Yes, what changes is that while before it was merely quite likely, now it's a certainty that you're talking out of your ass. Well done!

 

[George D.]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I don't know why videographers don't demand the best video specs from the 5DS/SR and leave Mk. III/IV alone. Shoot the 28Mp option with 4K/8K. Obviously everybody would wish a cheap top-of-the-line DSLR to do the job of an expensive cinema EOS, well the 5D Mk. IV is not one of them.

 

[zim]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Would something change if I tell you that this 20 users are top D.P in Los Angeles?

Ahh... I've missed that old Miekle-esque banter

 

[Ladislav]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

hi all.

Canon are about to announce the new 5d series camera in a couple of weeks time and i am sure some of you are eager to find out what specs/improvements it will have.



what i personally want from the sequel to the 5d4 to make it worthwhile to upgrade are the following:


Built in IS in the body
Wifi so i can transfer high res JPEGS to my phone on the fly
dual Compact flash or dual CFast cards(skip sd card slot altogether
8-10fps
30mp+ sensor
DR thats as good or better then the A7r2
1 stop or more better ISO performance compared to 5d3
Able to remotely control the camera and take images using my android phone connected to the camera
AF that matches the 1dxmk2
So far only a handful of the above have been almost confirmed such as the mp count and wifi.

Do note that regardless of what specs is in this camera, it will most likely not be upgraded again for the next 4-5 years. Had canon upgraded there cameras every 2 years, i could live with minimal improvements over the 5d3 but because we will have just this camera for the next 4-5 years, tech and specs will be outdated rapidly especially when the likes of sony keep innovating and churning out new cameras and tech/features almost once a year.


Surely Sony will catch up in the areas it is lacking such as AF and buffer/speed within the next 2 years way in the lifecycle of the 5d4 and possibly surpass it in every shape and form?


That is my worry. It seems that canon are like iOS,. its reliable and does the job well but compared to Android, it is lacking in some killer features and nowadays, Android has a larger market share and more fanbase then iOS now.


Will canon continue to do do incremental updates on there bodies once every 4 years or will they either churn out more incremental updates every 2 years? Or for every 4 years, do a major upgrade/change?


If they include all the stuff i mentioned, that to me is a major update .


What do you guys think?

What do I think? Go and buy Sony as your dream list will not happen.

 

[George D.]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Anyway, present (CR3) rumored specs are just a glimpse. What about sensor IQ. This is a new 30.4Mp sensor, wisely placed just above the 28Mp option of the 5DS/SR for no direct comparison, which must be way better than the Mk. III and industry leading. Any photo samples from the test "ambassadors"?

 

[romanr74]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Can some of the people who call color rendition of Canon cameras horrid please describe their workflow equipment and environment?

 

[romanr74]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

This is from 2015:
"In the end, I’m extremely pleased with the images we captured. I honestly don’t think
anyone is going to guess we shot on a DSLR. I’m glad we used the a7s under these circumstances.
I’d only consider selling the a7s if Sony releases a version with In Body Image Stabilization, and it would be nice to be able to control ISO in SLog.

Any professional image maker that thinks an a7s is a DSLR isn't one I'd be very interested in getting advice from.

That could be narrow minded...