*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

[1DX2Uncut]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

We dont know anything about the LCD yet other than touch screen with greater functionality than the DX2 (although I'm willing to bet heavily the DX2 gets a firmware upgrade for this in very short order following the 5D4 release)....

I too would hope this happens. But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!

 

[Loswr]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!

How about f/8 AF for the 1D X?

 

[John2016]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

and here a little bit more in detail about the replacement for the 1DX and the 1DC:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1421137/0

"The 1DX2 at ISO 100 improves by 1.5 EV the 1DX dynamic range. It beats the 5DS by about 1 EV. It also beats by about 0.33 EV the 80D. However, at high ISO it merely manages to catch the old 1DX (2012), and at the highest ISO levels it falls behind by about 0.3-0.5 EV, due to higher read noise.

Interestingly, the 1DX2 still shows a noticeable DR drop at low ISO (much more marked than the 80D) but not so bad compared to the old sensor tech. Between ISO 800 and ISO 100, the 80D dynamic range increases 2.13 EV, while the 1DX2 only goes up by 0.97 EV.
In summary, those shooting the 1DX mainly at ISO 3200 or above, shouldn't immediately sell it: at high ISO, the 1DX2 has a bit more noise (more read noise, exactly the same photon noise -physics laws- and likely the same thermal noise due to the short exposures). But shooting RAW at low ISO the story is very different, and there is a very noticeable improvement in the shadows recovery ability. Nevertheless, high ISO noise "quality" may also have improved (was already good) and JPEG quality could be better thanks to the new processor, so your mileage may vary (not to mention the other camera features besides the sensor). After looking at the 80D data, I must confess that personally was expecting better results in the 1DX2, but that doesn't means that these are not great.

Both the data bellow and the chart above are fully consistent and comparable (all the represented cameras are analyzed exactly the same way); in fact, the 7D2 chart changes slightly compared to the one published in the 80D analysis because I have calculated all the plotted ISO levels instead of interpolating the missing ones. Note in the 1DX2 chart the singularity at ISO 400. It seems a real characteristic, because two different shots (taken with 6 hours of difference, one properly exposed and the other severely underexposed) corroborate exactly the same result. As with ISO 400, for some other ISO levels (3200, 25600, 51200) I had several pictures, and all were analyzed to get more confidence in the results.

Note: all the RAWs (except for the 1DX2) come from Imaging Resource ISO series (the 1DX2 have been received from another source which I won't disclose; please do not ask me for these RAWs).

ISO 100
1DX2 - DR 13.55 at 8MP (12.89 at 20MP), read noise 2.0845 DN
1DX - DR 12.01 at 8MP (11.42 at 18MP), read noise 5.19861 DN

ISO 200
1DX2 - DR 13.40 at 8MP (12.74 at 20MP), read noise 2.31997 DN
1DX - DR 12.07 at 8MP (11.49 at 18MP), read noise 4.98757 DN

ISO 400 (2 samples)
1DX2 - DR 12.81745 at 8MP (12.15645 at 20MP), read noise 3.14005 DN
1DX2 - DR 12.83568 at 8MP (12.17468 at 20MP), read noise 3.10066 DN
1DX - DR 12.02080 at 8MP (11.43580 at 18MP), read noise 5.17441 DN

ISO 800
1DX2 - DR 12.58 at 8MP (11.92 at 20MP), read noise 3.68397 DN
1DX - DR 11.93 at 8MP (11.34 at 18MP), read noise 5.50986 DN

ISO 1600
1DX2 - DR 11.82 at 8MP (11.16 at 20MP), read noise 6.27188 DN
1DX - DR 11.71 at 8MP (11.12 at 18MP), read noise 6.41935 DN

ISO 3200 (2 samples)
1DX2 - DR 11.2831 at 8MP (10.6221 at 20MP), read noise 9.09559 DN
1DX2 - DR 11.2646 at 8MP (10.6037 at 20MP), read noise 9.21231 DN
1DX - DR 11.2559 at 8MP (10.6709 at 18MP), read noise 8.79265 DN

ISO 4000
1DX2 - DR 10.94 at 8MP (10.28 at 20MP), read noise 11.5206 DN

ISO 6400
1DX2 - DR 10.44 at 8MP (9.78 at 20MP), read noise 16.2208 DN
1DX - DR 10.50 at 8MP (9.92 at 18MP), read noise 14.8059 DN

ISO 12800
1DX2 - DR 9.48 at 8MP (8.82 at 20MP), read noise 31.7281 DN
1DX - DR 9.77 at 8MP (9.18 at 18MP), read noise 24.6235 DN

ISO 25600 (3 samples)
1DX2 - DR 8.49289 at 8MP (7.83192 at 20MP), read noise 62.9152 DN
1DX2 - DR 8.49692 at 8MP (7.83596 at 20MP), read noise 62.7387 DN
1DX2 - DR 8.49736 at 8MP (7.83639 at 20MP), read noise 62.7207 DN
1DX - DR 8.79292 at 8MP (8.20796 at 18MP), read noise 48.4779 DN

ISO 51200 (3 samples)
1DX2 - DR 7.52679 at 8MP (6.86583 at 20MP), read noise 122.895 DN
1DX2 - DR 7.53064 at 8MP (6.86967 at 20MP), read noise 122.570 DN
1DX2 - DR 7.52280 at 8MP (6.86184 at 20MP), read noise 123.234 DN
1DX - DR 8.05955 at 8MP (7.47459 at 18MP), read noise 80.6098 DN

This data is very similar to the DXO estimation, but not totally comparable. For example, DXO reports 8.08 EV at ISO 25600 for the 1DX, while the value here is 8.79 EV (this is a extreme case, note that usually the offset is a lot smaller). Here we use the DXO definition of DR, but calculate it directly against the noise floor "fingerprint" recorded by the own sensor (instead of plotting several SNR curves to infere it). So I have more confidence on these results (however, DXO calculates a lot more sensor performance metrics).

The 1DX2 black levels are identical to the 80D (about 512 at ISO 100-200, and 2048 for the rest of ISO levels). Interestingly, had the ISO 400 used a 512 black level, the DR singularity in the chart would almost have dissapeared (but indeed does is 2048). I have assumed a saturation of 16383 DN for a few ISO levels not overexposed (1DX2 ISO 100 DR could be about 0.1 EV less in the worse case, but 1DX reached such white level anyway). The 1DX2 masked pixels area is not huge (72 pixels at the left and 38 at the top, exactly as it is in the 7D2) which partially breaks the recent trend of increasing it (the 1DX used 126 at the left and 100 at the top)."

Another conformation:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/05/canon-1d-x-mark-ii-high-iso-and-colour-performance-worse-than-predecessor/

And lets not even start to talk about the "damned" battery life:
"With a CIPA-rated maximum of 1,210 shots, the 1D X Mark II looks pretty bad when compared to the Nikon D5’s 3,780 shots. Using Live View on the 1D X Mark II, you will only get up to 260 shots..." So I guess Sony is not alone

Canon 1D X Mark II vs Nikon D5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_n7c57KdTg

@Peaking and Zebras. It's not on the 1DX2, I doubt we will see it on the 5D4 although no information one way or another has been given on this. Personally, I think video people THAT serious are probably more inclined to use external devices like Atomos which already have that stuff on board.

Really great solution for spending $6k and getting for 1080p /24fps peaking and zebras. : Welcome in Canon's 2016 world...

@I too would hope this happens. But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!

Only if the competition (Gh5 or A7sIII) come out with 6k or even more... We need to stay in game ;D

 

[Guillaume GLEIZE]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Then suddenly the 25th of August ... Canon will show a camera named the 5DX with complet differents characteristics from those written here ... 8)

 

[Don Haines]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Then suddenly the 25th of August ... Canon will show a camera named the 5DX with complet differents characteristics from those written here ... 8)

or they introduce the 6D2 instead......

 

[3kramd5]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

But I'm wondering, has there ever been a precedent for Canon making such a bold (logical) firmware update move? It would make allot people (who just spent $6k) very happy!

How about f/8 AF for the 1D X?

Or DPAF for the C300

 

[Donkey_Kong]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
Please have a faster SD slot too

Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
Please have a faster SD slot too

Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.

There are two variations of 5DS (with AA and without AA filter).
The chances of 5D Mark IV will be without AA filter are nearly zero.

It is almost certain that the SD slot will be UHS-II.

 

[Donkey_Kong]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
Please have a faster SD slot too

Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.

There are two variations of 5DS (with AA and without AA filter).
The chances of 5D Mark IV will be without AA filter are nearly zero.


But I don't want da siwwy AA filter
X-sync 1/250 pwitty pwease mista Canon man


It is almost certain that the SD slot will be UHS-II.

 

[1DX2Uncut]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

...Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.

You're absolutely right about that. At my son's wedding, they spent a fortune on the photographer (who was excellent)... but then they left me to shoot video... on my iPhone!!! Hahaha - Even though I'm a pro and could have shot something better for them (on XDCAM), they were happy with iPhone footage!

Sad, but true.

 

[JCP]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.

Otherwise, nice upgrade. The 5 series have been amazing for us ever since the sweet files came rolling off the original classic. No need for CFast cards and the WiFi will make it easier than our current work around to post up an image at a wedding and beat the Uncle Bob's on the awesome social media race. : Life left in our current bodies and so we will likely wait a while though -- we use the Profoto B lights and no need to pick up until they get the firmware sorted.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Any word on whether or not the IV will have an AA filter? I sincerely hope not!
Please have a faster SD slot too

Also, somebody mentioned video will overtake stills in the future. In the wedding industry at least, I'm finding the exact opposite. Fewer and fewer couples are deciding to hire a videographer for their big day. Even if they do, the photos are considered to be far more important.

You bring up an interesting spec point I hadn't even considered. Canon I believe was rather surprised by the demand for the 5DSR vs the 5DS. While 5DS models were amply supplied to retailers, 5DSRs were constantly on backorder when they first released.

If I were to bet, I'd guess Canon left the AA filter in place. 50MP seems so far to be enough resolution to out-resolve any problems with Moire and Aliasing. I haven't experienced any myself except in one instance and it was very very minor.

I haven' seen many if any Nikon 810 users complain at 36MP either. But again, I figure Canon leaves the AA filter in. Good debate point though!

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.

Otherwise, nice upgrade. The 5 series have been amazing for us ever since the sweet files came rolling off the original classic. No need for CFast cards and the WiFi will make it easier than our current work around to post up an image at a wedding and beat the Uncle Bob's on the awesome social media race. : Life left in our current bodies and so we will likely wait a while though -- we use the Profoto B lights and no need to pick up until they get the firmware sorted.

I'm with ya. My 5D3 is a sweet spot for a lot of what I do with volume portrait work. For the custom portrait work, 5DSR. I'm sure Canon researched the mess out of this, so I have to assume their major bases (guys like you who shoot weddings and such) were largely favorable to a near 30% resolution bump.

Same time I can appreciate why a 1DX2 in your situation isn't ideal. It's a comparably noisy sucker, especially for weddings. I actually hope the new 5D4 shutter will have the same shutter as the 5DSR. If you haven't shot with that one, it's like shooting stealth with a silencer on the lens. That all motor shutter is really slick.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

...
Same time I can appreciate why a 1DX2 in your situation isn't ideal. It's a comparably noisy sucker, especially for weddings. I actually hope the new 5D4 shutter will have the same shutter as the 5DSR. If you haven't shot with that one, it's like shooting stealth with a silencer on the lens. That all motor shutter is really slick.

Given that the frame rate is 3 fps for silent shutter, it's apparent that lots of fps in the 5 series isn't so important for a good number of people.

For those that think 30MP in the 5D4 is too many MP, maybe the 6D2 will be more appropriate...

The 5DSR is capable of 5fps, limited by the high data rate it has to sling. I've never actually tried the silent shutter mode on it. Even at 5fps, that shutter is a whisper

 

[JCP]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Only spec that I am not fond of is 30+mp. Totally get that others want that and more and 30 isn't really high but the III's is a perfect sweet spot for us --- we are a wedding studio and just don't need the bump for albums which are our bread. Would rather keep the mp lower and max out the high ISO performance. Most wedding pros that shoot Canon currently use 5DIII as opposed to the 1 series, at least in my experience, and was hoping that would persuade Canon to keep it closer to the 1DXII's res. It's not enough to make us avoid replacing our III's with IV's when needed, tho.

Otherwise, nice upgrade. The 5 series have been amazing for us ever since the sweet files came rolling off the original classic. No need for CFast cards and the WiFi will make it easier than our current work around to post up an image at a wedding and beat the Uncle Bob's on the awesome social media race. : Life left in our current bodies and so we will likely wait a while though -- we use the Profoto B lights and no need to pick up until they get the firmware sorted.

I'm with ya. My 5D3 is a sweet spot for a lot of what I do with volume portrait work. For the custom portrait work, 5DSR. I'm sure Canon researched the mess out of this, so I have to assume their major bases (guys like you who shoot weddings and such) were largely favorable to a near 30% resolution bump.

Same time I can appreciate why a 1DX2 in your situation isn't ideal. It's a comparably noisy sucker, especially for weddings. I actually hope the new 5D4 shutter will have the same shutter as the 5DSR. If you haven't shot with that one, it's like shooting stealth with a silencer on the lens. That all motor shutter is really slick.

Can't complain much about the mp count -- it's really only about 5 or so from where I "hoped" it would be.

I haven't shot a 5DSR -- we've toyed with picking one up for studio work only but haven't. I agree that a 1DX, while a killer camera, just isn't ideal IMO for wedding work (as odd as that sounds). We borrowed a 1DX from CPS to check out awhile ago and the shutter was a big negative for us even though it drove my 85L faster, I felt, and was just a really nice body. Funny thing is that I remember when we first got the new III's and we were both kinda "meh" on the silent shutter when setting it up (like so many, I loved it because of the new AF and the fact that it was dual cards). Once in practice, though, we were hooked on the SS. Just effin awesome during getting ready and ceremony. Before the 5D III, the sound of the 1DX probably wouldn't bothered us much.

 

[wockawocka]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

...
Same time I can appreciate why a 1DX2 in your situation isn't ideal. It's a comparably noisy sucker, especially for weddings. I actually hope the new 5D4 shutter will have the same shutter as the 5DSR. If you haven't shot with that one, it's like shooting stealth with a silencer on the lens. That all motor shutter is really slick.

Given that the frame rate is 3 fps for silent shutter, it's apparent that lots of fps in the 5 series isn't so important for a good number of people.

For those that think 30MP in the 5D4 is too many MP, maybe the 6D2 will be more appropriate...

The 5DSR is capable of 5fps, limited by the high data rate it has to sling. I've never actually tried the silent shutter mode on it. Even at 5fps, that shutter is a whisper

This is why I have a big thing about Cfast and UHS-ii - At the tail end of data transfer waiting for that buffer to empty is a big thing shooting weddings. The rumored 7fps... great...it just means the buffer will fill up quicker.

So when theres the first kiss and I want to spray that with as many frames as possible or the confetti walk is taking place, or during the couple photos when I want the moments between moments I don't want to be held back on either accessing the frames taken or waiting for a buffer to empty.

With the 5Dsr I get 14-16 shots in a burst at 5fps. That's a measly three second burst. On a 5D3 you get the same I think but at 6fps. So again, a three second burst. That's NOTHING. Worst still when it takes three seconds more to empty the buffer.

Doesn't sound like much but in practise it's a big thing. If the buffer output and write speed is high enough you 'should' be able to shoot continuously.

Furthermore, when a wedding takes up about 100-200gb I want to be able to empty those cards as fast as possible ready to copy the images to backup so I can go to bed and shoot another wedding the next day.

If you shoot 50 weddings a year the time adds up. I think it takes about 50 minutes to unload my cards (Sandisk 160mb/s cards). Over a year that's two days used up with the simple process of emptying cards.

It's an issue I have with cameras these days. They're all pretty freaking superb but the devil is in the detail, some things they could of added to the 5Dsr like the 1DX jump to a mode feature (which they added but crippled) would of made my 5DSr much more useful. No Cfast / UHS-ii on the 5D4? might not buy it unless the sensor is super whack as I love not having an AA filter.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Sad stuff:

1 - No C-Log, just like 1dx. Which means 1DC will still have the most filmic and high DR video in the DSLR line up but it's 5000$ (and the 1DC doesn't have state of the art 30.4mp small body).

2 - No D750 Nikon Tilt like screen

3 - No DPAF apparently? that'd be a huge marketing fail. It's an essential marketing point for canon in the market as they own it exclusively and professionals are using it now even on high end C300II.

4 - No peaking and zebras, two simple ML features they refuse to give.

well I don;t think it is certain yet, the above are not the complete specs, just parts and pieces
certainly it must have 1,3,4 at the least, no?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Peaking and Zebras. It's not on the 1DX2, I doubt we will see it on the 5D4 although no information one way or another has been given on this. Personally, I think video people THAT serious are probably more inclined to use external devices like Atomos which already have that stuff on board.

peaking, 100% live zoom box, zebras have nothing to do with being THAT serious, they are just basic usability functions!

 

[Phil Lowe]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The level of Fanboy-ism on this thread is impressive.

I don’t know how old or technically savy are most of you but I want to make some things clear:

1.- Those that don’t want or care about video: Video is the future. Images will be a thing of the past in some years and they will be merged with video. A video is a series of stills. Just look at how fast video is taking over stills in every media outlet, facebook, instagram etc. Look how many images vs video are published. Times are changing, and they are changing faster every year.

2.- What some people here are asking is for canon to innovate. Look are other camera companies, the underdogs. They are innovating. Canon is doing the opposite by having some of the technology and means but purposely crippling their products.

3.- If you don’t need a feature on a camera right now it does not mean you will not need it in the future or other people don’t need it right now. I have seen posts of people glad it does not have 4k 60fps. Others saying they don’t want high MP pictures because it takes too much processing power. You are spending thousands on cameras and lenses, go buy a fast pc and you are set. Take a look at your years old 8MP or 480 video and tell me if you wished you had a camera with 24MP or 1080P at the time?

4.- I can assure you that in less than 3 years the company who shall not be named on this forum will be releasing a mirrorless camera that shoots 8K at 30fps and 4K at 120fps. The 5D MK4 will still be shooting 30MP stills at 7 fps and 4k at 30fps. Yes, I know you will not need it, but the younger generations will.

5.- You all need to stop with the brand loyalty. It hurts you and the brand in the long term.

Quite a first post ...

When I read posts like this...and many others are like this on this thread...all I can think about is that somewhere in the world there is a 15-year-old girl with her Dad's 70D, out making a film that will go viral on You Tube and earn her a film school scholarship and a contract for a series of films for a price that none of us will ever come close to.

Yet, no one has told her that the 70D is a piece of crap and that anything that doesn't have 4K and a host of other specs that I know nothing about isn't worth even looking at. Somehow she will succeed and won't worry about the things being discussed here because in the end, just as it has been for thousands of years, it's the content that matters.

+1000. Content is king!

 

[Maiaibing]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

It's an issue I have with cameras these days. They're all pretty freaking superb but the devil is in the detail, some things they could of added to the 5Dsr like the 1DX jump to a mode feature (which they added but crippled) would of made my 5DSr much more useful. No Cfast / UHS-ii on the 5D4? might not buy it unless the sensor is super whack as I love not having an AA filter.

The way you take pictures I'm not sure Canon is to blame that you have a 5DS/R and not a 1DXII.

6 seconds of continuous burst is a very special requirement. If I needed that I'd have a 1DXII in my hands. And even a 1DXII runs out of steam after 10 sec. Smaller sensor, triple DIGIC and all.