*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Just adding more FPS to stills and videos isnt that simple, it requires an entire system designed for that speed.
Many people are failing to take into account the analog to digital converters, and how their speed influences noise. The more pixels they need to process (either from a higher resolution sensor OR from a higher framerate) the higher the noise (noise from the ADC which is just one of the many sources of noise).

So, adding more resolution, adding a higher framerate, or a combination of both results in more noise from the analog to digital converters. They probably had to compromise on some things in that regard too.

Another thing is heat. Having lots of pixels read at a fast speed requires a bit fat heatsink, like in the 1DX II.
Another issue is battery power... all that processing needs more power to occur. Also, for stills, you will probably need to focus quicker to be able to get those high framerates, which requires higher battery voltage (like the 1DX mark II has).
Another issue is the mirror speed/loudness/power draw which tends to be louder for the faster 1DX II. (keep the speed lower to keep it quieter and less power hungry).
For 4K 60fps, faster storage is needed.

So... to get those higher speeds... the 5D mark IV would probably need:
a huge heatsink (and therefore bigger body)
a bigger, more powerful, higher voltage battery (and therefore bigger body)
a faster mirror mechanism (which would therefore be louder and require that bigger battery)
CFast for 4K 60fps
This camera would need even faster ADCs (more noise) and probably an even more robust heatsink, since we are now reading from a 30 megapixel sensor instead of a 20 megapixel sensor.

Canon wants things to be reliable and wont release products that overheat, freeze and have poor battery life like some competing products.

We can't have it all... there have to be compromises.

What about the 7D Mark II you may ask? It does 10 fps! Yes it does... but the mirror in the 7D mark II is much smaller and requires less power to move than a full frame mirror. It is also a 20 megapixel sensor.

More FPS = more power... the 1DX mark II NEEDS the new battery to flap that mirror at 14 FPS... if you put a 1DX battery in it... it will only do 12 FPS.
We're getting close to the limit of what can be done with the current battery tech... a newer and more powerful battery will be needed for faster (full frame) framerates, unless some other major technological breakthrough occurs.

My guess is that going to 8FPS would not require a 2nd digic processor... of course this is just a guess... and this might be another limiting factor. 60FPS @ 4K would certainly require it.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Diko said:
About 10 days before official presentation there is nothing new? :-(

Every @ Canon stores around the world already have all the info most probably and nothing comes out. I could hardly believe that. :-(((((

Why, oh why? :-(

Simple – you blabba your mouth, you get no stock next time.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

neuroanatomist said:
Diko said:
About 10 days before official presentation there is nothing new? :-(

Every @ Canon stores around the world already have all the info most probably and nothing comes out. I could hardly believe that. :-(((((

Why, oh why? :-(

Simple – you blabba your mouth, you get no stock next time.

Plus an announcement is nothing to do with product availability. August announcement, October / Nov ship.

There's not the many 'Official' Canon outlets really. Amazon, Wex, Park Cameras and so on in the UK at least but all are controllable via an embargo that they'll adhere to. I couldn't sign up to Canon RCC to start selling their cameras and even if I could unless I was turning over a certain amount I reckon I'd be second tier to the big boys who get the first batch and advance info on launch products.

Unless we see some French website screw up a webpage I doubt we'll get any info until a few days before.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

going from 6fps to 7fps (if this info is correct) really isn't that much better. If you really need to grab "THAT" moment 1 extra fps is better but it's so marginally better it's almost irrelevant. Not saying you may not get lucky where the one extra shot DOES get the moment, but if that is so critical to your shooting, then move to a 7D2 or 1DX2. THAT makes a huge difference.

Perception is a funny beast. 1/6=17% improvement. 2/5=40% improvement. The other end of the beast, 14 shots/second*1/250th second .056 seconds (or 5.6% of 1 second) captured to film.

If my boss gave me a 17-40% raise I wouldn't complain but if I only did something 5.6% of the time he would. :)
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

This sad day when the started building cameras for filming as much as for shooting photos ... This sad day!

Now I have to pay ... What? ... 25% more? 33% more for some film characteristics that I DON'T CARE AT ALL!
Plus I have to stand all those posts about our next camera's characteristic for the film makers .... Arrrg!

Give photo cameras for photo makers please! And please build the film makers their own film cameras!

Brother photographers please scream with me: WE DON'T CARE WITH FILMS! (lol)

OK I ---> :-X
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I realise it's normal that those generalist cameras trying to please every still photographers, sports photographers, film makers, animals, landscape, journalists etc. Photographers make everybody scream in his corner to his own needs! I'll check for this new camera then in the futur I'll be searching for specialized cameras only.

8)
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Guillaume GLEIZE said:
Now I have to pay ... What? ... 25% more? 33% more for some film characteristics that I DON'T CARE AT ALL!

Unless Canon departs from their previous strategy, no, you won't have to pay 25%-33% more. I bet this will come in at right about $3,500. Putting out two versions with individually optimized hardware and software on the other hand would undoubtedly invite higher prices (extra engineering, less supply, etc).

Guillaume GLEIZE said:
in the futur I'll be searching for specialized cameras only.

About that price premium...
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Maiaibing said:
K said:
On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.

Difference between 5 fps and 7 fps is quite small in real shooting terms (as in usable shots captured).

Please explain the shooting situations where it would make any real difference since you think it puts the camera in another "category".

Showjumping, eventing, dressage, and probably all other equestrian sports. 5 fps is useless, 7 cuts the mustard.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Sporgon said:
Maiaibing said:
K said:
On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.

Difference between 5 fps and 7 fps is quite small in real shooting terms (as in usable shots captured).

Please explain the shooting situations where it would make any real difference since you think it puts the camera in another "category".

Showjumping, eventing, dressage, and probably all other equestrian sports. 5 fps is useless, 7 cuts the mustard.

That's interesting, can you fill in a little on how the 2 fps makes that much difference - exactly why. Not challenging, just asking. I'm at 4.5 and have shot at 10 and been happy but not sure how I'll react to 7 if I choose this camera.

Jack
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Jack Douglas said:
Sporgon said:
Maiaibing said:
K said:
On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.

Difference between 5 fps and 7 fps is quite small in real shooting terms (as in usable shots captured).

Please explain the shooting situations where it would make any real difference since you think it puts the camera in another "category".

Showjumping, eventing, dressage, and probably all other equestrian sports. 5 fps is useless, 7 cuts the mustard.

That's interesting, can you fill in a little on how the 2 fps makes that much difference - exactly why. Not challenging, just asking. I'm at 4.5 and have shot at 10 and been happy but not sure how I'll react to 7 if I choose this camera.

Jack

I shoot sports, and I switched from 7D to 5D3. Fps went 8 -> 6, but I felt the improved high-ISO easily compensated for the loss of 2 frames. Plus better AF on top of that.

Better is better. Same way we could ask if really 20M -> 30M makes difference. 5D3 is 5760 × 3840. Let's guess 5D4 is close to 7000 pixels on the long edge. That around 22% increase, meaning after every 4 pixels you get one extra one. Doesn't sound that much difference if you put it that way. But more is better, you never know when that one pixel was the one that made it look sharper. Same on sports, you never know if that extra 2 fps nailed the perfect moment.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'm hanging out for the real spec, waiting to upgrade my Mk3, if the Mk4 does not look good I'm getting a 1DX2 to replace both my main cameras. I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1. I am not sure I want 30MP as after all if I want high MP just get a 5DSR.
I know one thing, no matter what spec the 5D4 is it will never be a 1DX2. I may heal my pain and just get the 1DX2.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Jack Douglas said:
Sporgon said:
Maiaibing said:
K said:
On the other hand, 7fps is truly a step up and puts a camera in another category compared to the 5-6fps cameras.

Difference between 5 fps and 7 fps is quite small in real shooting terms (as in usable shots captured).

Please explain the shooting situations where it would make any real difference since you think it puts the camera in another "category".

Showjumping, eventing, dressage, and probably all other equestrian sports. 5 fps is useless, 7 cuts the mustard.

That's interesting, can you fill in a little on how the 2 fps makes that much difference - exactly why. Not challenging, just asking. I'm at 4.5 and have shot at 10 and been happy but not sure how I'll react to 7 if I choose this camera.

Jack

It's due to the forward speed and movement of the horse's body and legs. In jumping, to capture the moment when the horse has just pushed off the ground with its rear legs and is at full stretch coming up, or just over the fence as its landing, with 5 fps you've every chance of missing it. In dressage you want the horse with its foreleg extended at full reach. Miss this and the best horses in the world look like donkeys. Again, 5 fps wont get it but 7 will. I don't do much sports apart from equestrian but I found a significant difference between 5 and 7. Prior to using 7 fps I would have to time the single shot perfectly to get the precise moment I wanted.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The main questions regarding the new 5D is ISO range, and noise reduction at high ISO. At 30MP a full frame has about the same sensing pixel size similar to the 20.2MP of the 7DII. The new 5D must have at least the same ISO range as the previous one (Native ISO 25600, Extended to ISO 102400) and noise reduction to match that of the 7DII (best if it will match that of the previous 5D).

Some people want the new 5D to be 60MP, 14f/sec, ISO 1,028,000, no noise in that ISO, 120f/sec at 4K video and all that in less than 2500$. I wish such a camera could exist, but right now, there is none of that sort. It is a compromise, if you go to high MP sensor, you have to reduce the frame/sec rate. High ISO means noise. And you can't have high rate video on a stills sensor. And as regarding to price, we can still dream that 5D bodies will rain from the sky upon is all.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Thanks Sporgon.

tpatana, good point, when shooting eagles last year I had the 6D and the 1D4. The 6D was giving me better IQ especially at higher ISOs but I was missing AF a lot compared to the 1D4. I finally just went with the 1D4 unless there was not going to be a chance of action. That was a decision based on the AF as much as it was fps, although in reviewing shots afterwards, clearly 10 fps was what gave me some killer moments.

If only we could have it all. That's why I have a wee bit of sympathy for some who criticize Canon's choices of what is and isn't included in different bodies. Just a little better AF and the 6D would have been significantly improved, I guess too much improved.

For me at this moment I'm pretty sure it'll be a 1DX II but that 30MP really matters since I'm often cropping significantly. That's the only item. As a stand alone camera the 5DSRr wouldn't do what I need and I'm only willing to pack one (heavy) camera on my hikes.

Jack
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

scyrene said:
E said:
If these specs are correct, then I will not purchase a Mark IV. And I've been waiting for so long. I wanted a Mark III years ago, but rumors said that the Mark IV was so close to be released, so I waited, and waited. For more than two years.

This is not a good way of deciding what to buy, or when. Rumours are just that - they cannot be relied upon.

E said:
And many tests I've seen say that [the 1DX Mark II is] not as good a camera as its predecessors, which is a bit disheartening.

According to whom, and in what ways?

Of course I will not make a purchase decision now, based on the rumor. It's an "if-then" statement. But these specs make me sad enough to finally register on the forum myself in the vain hope that Canon might be scanning the forum to see what their prospective customers think.

And I'm really sorry, but I can't find the tests again. I checked links from the forum and googled for hours the day I wrote my reply, and I saw tests with studio patterns which showed that the 1 DX II stills were less sharp than the ones from the original 1 DX.

And the 1 DX II is still a very heavy and expensive camera for me to carry around, as I am alone when I take photos.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

arthurbikemad said:
I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1.

Don't panic, I can assure you the 1DX2 gives razor-sharp images. I've been using it lately with the 70-200 f2.8 IS II for portraits and I'm amazed at the level of detail. Before moving to this combo I had the 5D3 and 70-200 f4 IS so can confirm there is no issue with soft images. I'd normally use the Sigma 85mm f1.4 (got it chipped by Sigma for free to use with the 1DX2) but the f2.8 gives 100% consistant focus.
 
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Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

GuyF said:
arthurbikemad said:
I fear IQ issues with the 1DX2 after reading people's posts re soft images v the Mk1.

Don't panic, I can assure you the 1DX2 gives razor-sharp images. I've been using it lately with the 70-200 f2.8 IS II for portraits and I'm amazed at the level of detail. Before moving to this combo I had the 5D3 and 70-200 f4 IS so can confirm there is no issue with soft images. I'd normally use the Sigma 85mm f1.4 (got it chipped by Sigma for free to use with the 1DX2) but the f2.8 gives 100% consistant focus.

Thanks for the info :) I am super keen to buy the 1DX2 and forget the 5D4. My subjects range from Macro, people, birds and motorsports etc so I feel the 1DX2 will do me well for the next 4-5 years. A part of me wants to just BUY IT NOW and another wants to see the Mk4 specs and images, but for that I have to wait and I hate waiting! The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE! The 5D3's slick silent shutter is sweet out in the field, on quiet mornings like today even the 5D's shutter seems loud, some say subjects don't take much notice but in my case I know this is a false statement, snapping twigs, dry leaves and Canons mirror slap are unwelcome while stalking subjects that spook easy! That is the only reason I am not holding a 1DX2 in hand right now.... what to do....
 
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