*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Hmmmm,

This is underwhelming.... it's odd the 5DIV won't match the 1DX2 for video.... videographers, don't care for the larger body, or the FPS...

I'm still holding on to the hope about better video, as one old interview (6 months?) mentioned that 5D4 will be better than 1DX2 in terms of video.

Canon may give it focus peaking, zebras, and clog as an example, or the hybrid EVF/OVF
that would make it "better" than the 1Dx Mark II.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

yes it's odd that canon can't shove a 30WH battery and a huge freaking heat sink into a smaller camera and make it all work.

The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it... and mount a big heat sink on the tripod mount....

that'll work! ;D

or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..

The World's First camera that CAN brew your coffee!

 

[3kramd5]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

A big part of me is still hoping Canon surprises up with the 5 body split. 5D4 and 5DC. 5DC arrives with a lower MP sensor more geared at 4k and HD that can at least sling out via HDMI all the 60p 4k and 120p HD. I imagine the lack of internal recording for those speeds would alleviate a great deal of the procesing burden, letting an external device like a Ninja Flame handle the encoding and recording. Everyone is happy.

It seems to me that Canon's (and other camera manufacturers) architectural philosophy is somewhat stilted. Yeah, I know people will say they are in the camera business, making money, and you are not. I get that. The thing is that a 5D4 and a "5DC" are essentially the same camera body, but with different features. So then, why not have a base 5D model, and then have additional features/software that can be purchased initially or in the future? A lot of stills-only photographers could care less about video, so why should they bear the burden of the extra cost? At the same time, I would gladly pay for additional video features that we see with Magic Lantern or for external recording with a better codec. Canon designs their cameras as a complete package at a given point in time, and there are very few firmware updates, and precious few feature additions. But the camera could be constructed with a more flexible design with software extensions and plugins available (at a price) for those people who want them.

You could offer software (and firmware) updates in peace-meal (sony does it, none of them seem worthwhile to me), but the platform itself has to support both, so either way you're bearing the brunt of the development cost (minus whatever likely minor portion can be attributed to specialty code addons).

I would prefer a modular approach to the hardware.

Modular HW and weather proofing rarely mix too well.

FW-enabling sounds good, many companies use that on many products. However, I'm sure they are afraid ML would release version to open everything. So they'd sell base-model camera and ML turns it into super-monster. -> Not going to happen.

It doesn't have to be modular at the user level. Think of a camera as a system. The backbone could be developed to support via a speced interface any number of hardware-based addons. Want a video camera? Canon sells you the camera with the video circuitry, and pay for the base setup plus the portion of cost due directly to video. Same for stills, or high framerate, etc.

At the user level it could be transparent.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

A big part of me is still hoping Canon surprises up with the 5 body split. 5D4 and 5DC. 5DC arrives with a lower MP sensor more geared at 4k and HD that can at least sling out via HDMI all the 60p 4k and 120p HD. I imagine the lack of internal recording for those speeds would alleviate a great deal of the procesing burden, letting an external device like a Ninja Flame handle the encoding and recording. Everyone is happy.

It seems to me that Canon's (and other camera manufacturers) architectural philosophy is somewhat stilted. Yeah, I know people will say they are in the camera business, making money, and you are not. I get that. The thing is that a 5D4 and a "5DC" are essentially the same camera body, but with different features. So then, why not have a base 5D model, and then have additional features/software that can be purchased initially or in the future? A lot of stills-only photographers could care less about video, so why should they bear the burden of the extra cost? At the same time, I would gladly pay for additional video features that we see with Magic Lantern or for external recording with a better codec. Canon designs their cameras as a complete package at a given point in time, and there are very few firmware updates, and precious few feature additions. But the camera could be constructed with a more flexible design with software extensions and plugins available (at a price) for those people who want them.

You could offer software (and firmware) updates in peace-meal (sony does it, none of them seem worthwhile to me), but the platform itself has to support both, so either way you're bearing the brunt of the development cost (minus whatever likely minor portion can be attributed to specialty code addons).

I would prefer a modular approach to the hardware.

Modular HW and weather proofing rarely mix too well.

FW-enabling sounds good, many companies use that on many products. However, I'm sure they are afraid ML would release version to open everything. So they'd sell base-model camera and ML turns it into super-monster. -> Not going to happen.

It doesn't have to be modular at the user level. Think of a camera as a system. The backbone could be developed to support via a speced interface any number of hardware-based addons. Want a video camera? Canon sells you the camera with the video circuitry, and pay for the base setup plus the portion of cost due directly to video. Same for stills, or high framerate, etc.

At the user level it could be transparent.

that's difficult to do unless you do a form factor like medium format.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

One good reason you would split the 5 line into a D4 and DC is to have each body optimized with its own feature set tailored to it's primary use.

Maybe 80% of the camera is identical like the body and ergonomics build quality, etc...

But a 5D4 geared for stills could have the 30MP sensor giving the resolution stills folks want with a Digic 7 etc...

a 5DC could be built with 12MP sensor sort of like the a7S with great upper ISO performance and a resolution that would record 4k with no binning and have a firmware built for video that included all the peaking and zebras etc...

Again, just academic discussion. I know there were rumors in the past that Canon was perhaps investigating splitting the 5 line to do something akin to this. ;D

 

[unfocused]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Just an overall observation:

50 pages in and it seems to me that much of the angst has focused on video features.

I conclude:

1) Those who are interested in stills are less worked up about the 5DIV and fall into a few broad categories: those who are satisfied with the rumored specs; those who, based on the rumored specs, are opting for the 1DX II; and those who don't find the rumored specs compelling enough to upgrade and intend to hold on the 5DIII for awhile.

2) Perhaps those of us who shoot stills underestimate the interest in the 5D series for video work. I knew it was popular for video work, but I had not idea that emotions ran as high as they apparently do.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..

The World's First camera that CAN brew your coffee!

Cripes! I bet that has a strong filter!
Designed from the grounds up, I guess.

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..

The World's First camera that CAN brew your coffee!

Cripes! I bet that has a strong filter!
Designed from the grounds up, I guess.

LOL!

*dies*

 

[Loswr]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it...

I used a rig like this for my first video recordings...

(For all you young whippersnappers, the VHS tape doesn't go in the camera, you shoulder-carry the recorder unit.)

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it...

I used a rig like this for my first video recordings...

(For all you young whippersnappers, the VHS tape doesn't go in the camera, you shoulder-carry the recorder unit.)

and now a difference of 150g on a camera .. "is too much" for some..

 

[Go Wild]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Woow.....just look at this video filmed with the Canon 1DX mkII. What a hell.....How could I buy a fantastic still pics camera, that film like this???? Noo.....I am running now to buy a Sony....

https://vimeo.com/171984449

 

[3kramd5]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The solution is simple..... we go back to the good old days of video where the videographer wore the battery belt and plugged the camera into it...

I used a rig like this for my first video recordings...

(For all you young whippersnappers, the VHS tape doesn't go in the camera, you shoulder-carry the recorder unit.)

and now a difference of 150g on a camera .. "is too much" for some..

Well, people do chase weight to diminishing returns. Graphite tripod legs, etc.

 

[1DX2Uncut]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

or canon could do something like the latest Sony innovation..

The World's First camera that CAN brew your coffee!

Cripes! I bet that has a strong filter!
Designed from the grounds up, I guess.

Canon's already done it!

The Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Lens, White, 16oz (Thermo LenZcup with Stainless Steel Insulated Tumbler) - Available on Amazon... okay, well it doesn't make coffee... but that's coming next year!

And the battery won't overheat! Well, that's a Sony (patent pending) exclusive!!

 

[TedBedlam]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...

I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...

I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!

Nothing to fret about - this is just a forum where folk have fun! It's typically only a few personalities that seem to forget that, but they still contribute to the humour.

Jack

 

[Phil Lowe]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

A couple of questions about the rumoured 4K video specs assuming they are correct...

Firstly I know absolutely nothing about video, codecs, 4:4:2 (wait that's football)... etc.

I am however very interested, from an amateur perspective, playing with stills from 4K video clips, effectively super fast fps.

So firstly, Am I correct to say you cannot pull a cr2 image from video i.e. it does not shoot raw video? and neither does the 1Dx2 ? even for just a few seconds (out the box ignoring possible future ML on 5D4)

Secondly, on specs alone should the 5D4 produce same/better/worse image quality frame grab as the 1Dx2 ?

Third, would the 5D4 image size be larger than the 1Dx2's ? what size would it be, does it use all of the sensor?

I think I might have snuck a couple of extra questions in there!

Thanks for any input

Correct. You cannot pull a CR2 (raw) image from MJPEG (Motion JPEG) video.

Codecs and color sub-sampling are two different issues, and one may not have anything to do with the other. For instance, pro AVC/H.264 codecs may use 4:2:2 color sub-sampling while consumer H.264 will probably use 4:2:0.

My Canon XF300 can shoot up to 50 Mbit Long GOP MPEG-2, but also uses 4:2:2 sub-sampling, while the old DV codec (an MPEG intraframe codec) used 4:1:1.

The only thing you really have to know about this stuff is this: 4:4:4 is better than 4:2:2, which is better than 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 for visual effects work, including color grading and chroma key effects. The higher the numbers when it comes to color (chroma) sub-sampling, the less color aliasing you'll have (we called them "jaggies" where I worked.) Pulling a clean chroma key with nice clean, tight edges requires a minimum of 4:2:2 color sub-sampling. But 4:4:4 (uncompressed chroma) is the best.

The 1DX MkII uses the Motion JPEG codec, as does the 5D4, so exporting stills from either - all other tings being equal - should produce similar if not identical quality.

For video, the 1DX MkII uses an APS-H crop of the center of its sensor for video. Have to believe the 5D4 will have a similar feature.

Hope this helps.

 

[Phil Lowe]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

This is a fundamental flaw with the idea of just shooting video and extracting still frames from it

There are applications for shooting high shutter speeds with video for the purpose of freezing action in each frame: sports, surveillance, and - believe it or not - news interviews. Any time you need to pull a "clean" still from video, you want to record it using a high shutter speed (if light permits.)

 

[mml4]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!

Precisely!!!
Marc

 

[Sporgon]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Also, these people complaining about the (lack of) video features..BUY A VIDEO CAMERA!

Precisely!!!
Marc

NO ! There'd be nothing to argue about !

Seriously, there was a first time poster some time back in this thread who stated 'the future is video' and everyone will just take their stills from the 4K vid, and so the 5DIV specs are a disaster etc, etc.

In fact there is a move in some areas towards doing this for still images; I have a friend who is a professional in an international automotive industry, and this is what he is now doing, through demand from the client. But of course he is using a 4K video camera, not a dslr !

 

[leWrat]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'm enjoying the arguments (and learning from them) and the speculation.
But the suspense, oh, the suspense is killing m..... arrrrg!