*UPDATED* Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Mike: on this one [connectivity, socila media] people like yourself are the minority. Not me and my product wishes. We really really should not have to discuss "decent WiFi connectivity" in cameras. It may have been a matter of priorities back in 2008. But not today, at the end of 2016. What Canon and Nikon are offering today is just a major embarassment for any sort of "innovative" (!), electronics/tech-oriented company.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Mike: on this one [connectivity, socila media] people like yourself are the minority. Not me and my product wishes.

How do you know?

We really really should not have to discuss "decent WiFi connectivity" in cameras.

The fact that it's not widely discussed on camera forums should be a clue that it's not a compelling need for most.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

We really really should not have to discuss "decent WiFi connectivity" in cameras.

That assumes it is easy to implement it. Can you let me know your experience in development and implementation of wifi systems, just so I can gauge the quality of your criticism.

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Typical Canon Defense League demagogic sh*t.
Folks, this is not about me and my credentials. It is simply ridiculous to put things as if I were the only person on earth wanting simple, stable and decent WiFi implemented in my cameras at the end of 2016.

It is some of you old folks, who don't think you need it because you cannot even imagine what it might be useful for. Go and print you photos on your home printers and stfu on topics like WiFi in cameras.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I am far from Canon Defence league. Let alone 'Demagogic sh*t'.
I would love stable wifi implemented in cameras - I use Wifi for liveview macro shooting so don't come all pompous just because someone disagrees with you.

Unlike you I don't hold Canon responsible for the ills of the camera industry - I accept it as being either a matter of priroites for Canon (and Wifi is nowhere near my main priority) or, given that no maufacturer (none, zero, zip) has developed a stable Wifi technology, there is a limitation inherent in introducing it to cameras.


And in case you deny that you hold Canon responsible for the decline of the camera industry I point you to your previous comment:

had canon (and nikon) initiated the transition to smaller, fully capable, connected (!) and less expensive (sub €/$ 1000) mirrorless cameras, both interchangeable lens camera systems and larger-sensor fixed lens compacts (1", APS-C, FF) systems sooner, like starting in 2013 when challenger Sony launched such products (esp. A7, A6000 and RX series) then overall unit sales of dedicated cameras would likely (!) not be in such continued steep decline.

Given that you have so far failed miserably to provide any evidence of the simplicity of providing such technology I can only assume your accusations aimed at Canon are little more than depressed ramblings.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Right, a company that seems to sell only half as many cameras than a few years ago knows exactly what they are doing. They are just too good to fail!

Your logic really is incompetent. It is less a case of how many absolute sales but sales in relation to the total market for a specific product type. If Canon are to be faulted for not selling as many cameras as a few years ago, and Canon are selling more than others in a reducing market, then it means the others are even more at fault.

Please can you point me to your posts on Sony and Nikon sites with your criticisms of them?

And all the users who are standing in shooting situations since years and in the future, missing IS on a 24-70/2.8, carrying 2 cameras instead of 1 because they need to do photo and video at the same time, and having 100 other limitations - they all don't need to worry, because they know the japanese corporate gods have decided it in their own best interest! And of course there is no way to question it!

So if you need to shoot video and photo at the same time why are you using Canon? Why not use Sony or Nikon? Or Panasonic or Olympus?

I AM using all these brands. Which sucks, because it would be much easier and cheaper if the former #1 brand Canon would release all modern tools, so there would be no need to look left and right. This is why I do write here.

Regarding my Sony, Nikon etc criticism, I will not have hours of time to search. I can just say that Nikon is way worse, and Sony has gaps - but at least shows more will to come up faster with the cool stuff.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I am far from Canon Defence league. Let alone 'Demagogic sh*t'.
I would love stable wifi implemented in cameras - I use Wifi for liveview macro shooting so don't come all pompous just because someone disagrees with you.

Unlike you I don't hold Canon responsible for the ills of the camera industry - I accept it as being either a matter of priroites for Canon (and Wifi is nowhere near my main priority) or, given that no maufacturer (none, zero, zip) has developed a stable Wifi technology, there is a limitation inherent in introducing it to cameras.


And in case you deny that you hold Canon responsible for the decline of the camera industry I point you to your previous comment:

had canon (and nikon) initiated the transition to smaller, fully capable, connected (!) and less expensive (sub €/$ 1000) mirrorless cameras, both interchangeable lens camera systems and larger-sensor fixed lens compacts (1", APS-C, FF) systems sooner, like starting in 2013 when challenger Sony launched such products (esp. A7, A6000 and RX series) then overall unit sales of dedicated cameras would likely (!) not be in such continued steep decline.

Given that you have so far failed miserably top provide any evidence of the simplicity of what providing such technology I can only assume your accusations aimed at Canon are little more than depressed ramblings.

I'd buy a 5DSR tomorrow if it had a reliable and robust WiFi solution. I'll buy a 5DSR MkII on release if it has a robust WiFi solution.

I don't see any reason why Canon couldn't buy a company like CamRanger and put it all in a body, even if you used the normal excuse for an arial you could have a port for a range boosting optional one, like they did for the original 1DS. I am a generalist and am shooting via wireless more and more, either with a main body for real estate or with a remote. Being able to see the images you are taking is a very very good thing and anybody who doesn't see the utility of remote operation simply isn't looking outside their small box.

I can well understand people thinking they don't want it, much like remote release sockets or headphone jacks if you never use them, but once you do need them you are very glad they are there and enable you to get shots otherwise impossible.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Right, a company that seems to sell only half as many cameras than a few years ago knows exactly what they are doing. They are just too good to fail!

You are blaming Canon exclusively for what is pillaging the entire industry right now, so that's a silly thing to say.

You understand that in a shrinking market like you describe, you never gamble on bleeding edge and reach for spruce-goose like passion products -- you focus on fundamentals, value, and execution.

An (for example) EF 24-70 f/2L IS USM sort of 'we did it!' lens would devour resources to develop, cost a boatload to design and build, and ultimately only serve a sliver of the market. It would take Canon into Otus territory, where the market is rather tiny. That's hardly going to resurrect the market or rock the competitive market share.

Far wiser would be to modernize your staple products, proliferate your proprietary tech as widely across your portfolio as possible, and keep your core users happy. And that's exactly what Canon is doing.

- A

Keep core users happy? Maybe 50% of them.

As you can with the new 24-105/4, Canon does NOT always use 10 years to solidely develop a product into something better. Some aspects of the 1DX2 are even worse than the 3 year older 1DC, like more noise at ISO above 3200.

As far as I can remember I also didn't expect a 24-70/2 IS. But of course a 24-70/2.8 IS is something that not only can expected, it is urgently needed.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

If that roadmap would be true, it would be very disappointing and only contain 1 out of approx 50 cameras and lenses I have on a personal wish list and would buy (products which all wouldn't be unrealistic looking at the competition and the market in the year 2017):

<snip>

14-24/2.8 IS
16-35/2.8 IS
24-70/2.8 IS

<snip>

I'll settle for TS-E 11-800mm f/1.0 IS USM and TS-E 8-15mm f/0.7 IS USM fish eye, both with auto focus, 5 axis 6 stops IS, and the ability to tilt & shift on both axis.

Canon offers stabilization in lenses between 16 and 800mm.
Canon offers zoom lenses in the range between 11 and 560mm.
Canon offers f2.8 in lenses between 14 and 400mm.

None of the listed lens wishes are unrealistic, or impossible to develop.
None of the listed lens wishes are more exotic than the 85/1.4 IS Canon will release in 2017.

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Given that you have so far failed miserably top provide any evidence of the simplicity of what providing such technology I can only assume your accusations aimed at Canon are little more than depressed ramblings.

You know what: I will laugh, when the next CIPA quarterly numbers are released, and the next and the next. And I will laugh even louder, when Canon sells the last camera in an entire year, reaching a perfect 100% market share.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I'd buy a 5DSR tomorrow if it had a reliable and robust WiFi solution. I'll buy a 5DSR MkII on release if it has a robust WiFi solution.

How do you define 'robust'?
What part is played in this by the phone (or whatever technology) in providing the wifi network for the camera to run off? Is it really all down to Canon?

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

In reviewing the list at the beginning the lens list seems very light. I cannot help but think Canon will have more than the EF 85mm f1.4L lens released for full-frame in 2017.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I'd buy a 5DSR tomorrow if it had a reliable and robust WiFi solution. I'll buy a 5DSR MkII on release if it has a robust WiFi solution.

How do you define 'robust'?
What part is played in this by the phone (or whatever technology) in providing the wifi network for the camera to run off? Is it really all down to Canon?

I mean a robust connection. I have owned the Canon WFT's, the EyeFi SD card and the CamRanger. the CamRanger is the only one I'd recommend, the WFT's take a lot of setting up and when you drop the connection it doesn't, in practice most of the time, reconnect, the CamRanger does, it just works.

The CamRanger works with most cameras, via home/studio WiFi or via it's own network on location, setup is easy fast and simple and the connection is reliable. All camera features work remotely from focus to exposure controls to remote live view on pretty much any device, tablets, phones, laptops, desktops. There are many options and even a companion program just for 'client' viewing where they only see what you allow and they can't take control of the camera. An excellent package with great range that just works, that is what I would want a built in solution to offer.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

P.S. I used to use PhotoSmith (I was a beta tester), an App for the iPad to deal with images on location and LightRoom. They had a simple 'export to' option you could send the image to that you could configure for all manner of social media sites or remote drives. I realize my needs are not for social media and instant exports they are just camera control connectivity, but there is no reason why a PhotoSmith like interface couldn't be in there to cater for those users.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

So with CamRanger you are talking about fitting a big lump of technology on the hotshoe. Canon are looking at ways to have the wifi unit within the camera. I would suspect that that is the difference and where the technological limitations come in. With a standalone unit I can foresee adding all sorts of power units and circuitry that just may not be possible within the camera body but would help stability of signal.

As for standalone units, if Camranger is available this means the choice is between buying a separate Camranger unit or a separate Canon unit (the latter at twice the price looking at WFT vs Camranger). I see no issue there.

I'm trying to work out precisely what it is people are asking for regards wifi. Sometimes Occam's razor provides the answer - if no-one has it, it is because it is not (at present) feasible.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

So with CamRanger you are talking about fitting a big lump of technology on the hotshoe. Canon are looking at ways to have the wifi unit within the camera. I would suspect that that is the difference and where the technological limitations come in. With a standalone unit I can foresee adding all sorts of power units and circuitry that just may not be possible within the camera body but would help stability of signal.

As for standalone units, if Camranger is available this means the choice is between buying a separate Camranger unit or a separate Canon unit (the latter at twice the price looking at WFT vs Camranger). I see no issue there.

I'm trying to work out precisely what it is people are asking for regards wifi. Sometimes Occam's razor provides the answer - if no-one has it, it is because it is not (at present) feasible.

No, the CamRanger hardware is mostly battery, the same functionality is in the EyeFi and Canon WiFi SD cards, the size of the tech is not an issue, it has always been claimed it is the arial. But like I said it that necessitates an optional one for longer range I'd be all for it.

People are in two camps, one wants remote camera controls (me) and we get that with various solutions some more robust and reliable and affordable than others. Some people want internet connectivity for uploads either as backups or to interact on social media, again there are options for those people.

The problems are that the manufacturer solutions so far have either been expensive or poorly thought out with bad interfaces.

The tech is out there, the software is out there, for some reason none of the manufacturers can pull that together.

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

P.S. I used to use PhotoSmith (I was a beta tester), an App for the iPad to deal with images on location and LightRoom. They had a simple 'export to' option you could send the image to that you could configure for all manner of social media sites or remote drives. I realize my needs are not for social media and instant exports they are just camera control connectivity, but there is no reason why a PhotoSmith like interface couldn't be in there to cater for those users.

+1 exactly.


But no, WiFI in a camera and a decent app to go with it are *technically sooooo difficult* that not even "innovative, know-it-all" Canon can implement it ... end of 2016. What a joke that line of Mikehit argumentation is.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

No, the CamRanger hardware is mostly battery,

If you are correct then to my mind, there is your problem. Where taking photos is the prime motivation (it is why you have a camera after all) then sucking all that battery power from the in-camera battery will reduce battery life and p!ss off more people than will be happy to have wifi. You only need to talk to people who see GPS reducing battery life...

it has always been claimed it is the arial

So which is it - aerial, battery or (to my mind, more likely) both. And if it is both you have a problem increasing aerial size within the space currently available within a body. And (this is something I am unconvinced by) doing it without affecting image integrity.

I am not saying it is technologically impossible, but when there are so many knock-on effects, when they are trying to compete with the compactness of mobile phones and (to some extent) mirrorless, when they are trying to improve existing functionality wifi drops down the list and it is so easy for the more unreasonable to stamp their feet and say 'I must have it now!'.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

What a joke that line of Mikehit argumentation is.

Please provide technological evidence for your claim it is so easy to do and why Canon (and everyone else) are being negligent in not doing it.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Wow! Somehow this thread morphed into my favorite topic. Stupid Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc. for failing to figure out the 21st century. Fasten your seat belts. It's time for a post-storm.