*UPDATED* Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

What a joke that line of Mikehit argumentation is.

Please provide technological evidence for your claim it is so easy to do and why Canon (and everyone else) are being negligent in not doing it.

I can direct you to a handy website: www.apple.com. That should provide all the evidence needed. You might also check Samsung and LG among others.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The tech is out there, the software is out there, for some reason none of the manufacturers can pull that together.

Exactly.

And, it's cost them dearly. They sat around and let the cell phone industry wipe out the bulk of their sales and just let it happen, while spending millions of dollars to get, like, one stop better dynamic range. Such misplaced priorities.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Mike: on this one [connectivity, socila media] people like yourself are the minority. Not me and my product wishes. We really really should not have to discuss "decent WiFi connectivity" in cameras. It may have been a matter of priorities back in 2008. But not today, at the end of 2016. What Canon and Nikon are offering today is just a major embarassment for any sort of "innovative" (!), electronics/tech-oriented company.

True. And, if camera manufacturers had made it a priority back in 2008, who knows if the point and shoot market would be dead today.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

We really really should not have to discuss "decent WiFi connectivity" in cameras.

The fact that it's not widely discussed on camera forums should be a clue that it's not a compelling need for most.

I'm afraid you are wrong there.

Camera forums are a terrible gauge of the market. You know that.

Whether or not photographers think it is a "need," the public does and they've voted with their wallets, abandoning cameras for devices that can instantly connect to the internet. That has created expectations and photographers who cannot meet those expectations should be prepared to find another line of work.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Okay, now comes the hard facts that will make many people uncomfortable.

All of the camera manufacturers, not just Canon, have failed their customers miserably when it comes to internet connectivity.

For better or worse, we live in an era of instant communication. No professional photographer in 2016 should have to pay $6,000 for a top of the line camera and then be unable to instantly a) review photos on the back of the camera, make a few basic adjustments and then upload those images to the web or if they choose b) send a selection of photos to a tablet or laptop wirelessly and then make a few quick edits on the tablet or laptop and upload those photos, without clumsy workarounds, poor interfaces or overpriced accessories.

I can just hear the dinosaurs all crying – I don't need to do that.

That's fine, just keep thinking that.

Meanwhile, some 20-something is going to steal your wedding assignments because she can promise the bride that a selection of her pictures will be up on the bride's Facebook wedding page before the guests sit down at the reception.

Or, the next time you are bidding on a job, the client will ask why it takes you an hour to have photos from the event up on their website.

The world is changing. Professional photographers who want to stay in business have to adapt or die. It's criminal that camera manufacturers can't, in 2016, give us the tools needed to compete.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Storm over (for the time being)

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

What a joke that line of Mikehit argumentation is.

Please provide technological evidence for your claim it is so easy to do and why Canon (and everyone else) are being negligent in not doing it.

I can direct you to a handy website: www.apple.com. That should provide all the evidence needed. You might also check Samsung and LG among others.

Yes, like the Bluetooth headphones : Or the Galaxy Note 7 :

I'd far rather have reliable than cutting edge unreliable crap, especially when in a professional service environment.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

From unfocused:

They sat around and let the cell phone industry wipe out the bulk of their sales and just let it happen,

The challenge was not connectivity. The challenge was that pretty much everyone carries a phone. That phone has a camera that more than meets their needs so they have no need to buy a camera as well. Cameras cannot compete with that.

And, if camera manufacturers had made it a priority back in 2008, who knows if the point and shoot market would be dead today.

Exactly...who knows.
Who is to say it would not have been millions wasted (see above)

Whether or not photographers think it is a "need," the public does and they've voted with their wallets, abandoning cameras for devices that can instantly connect to the internet.

No, they have voted to buy products that meet their need for a phone and a camera in one compact package.

For better or worse, we live in an era of instant communication. No professional photographer in 2016 should have to pay $6,000 for a top of the line camera and then be unable to instantly a) review photos on the back of the camera, make a few basic adjustments and then upload those images to the web or if they choose b) send a selection of photos to a tablet or laptop wirelessly and then make a few quick edits on the tablet or laptop and upload those photos, without clumsy workarounds, poor interfaces or overpriced accessories.

That is my point. The issue is not connectivity it is the quality of that connectivity and my questions have been about getting the functionality and reliability of the Camranger within the existing body size of a 5D or 1D body without compromising image integrity.

Meanwhile, some 20-something is going to steal your wedding assignments because she can promise the bride that a selection of her pictures will be up on the bride's Facebook wedding page before the guests sit down at the reception

Sure, if the bride is happy with iPhone quality images and where the 20-year old will do it for peanuts and where the bride's choice is 'iphone pictures or nothing'. Pay $500 and the bride will expect better. They probably would not pay for a professional anyway.
Or the photographer fits a Camranger.

Professional photographers who want to stay in business have to adapt or die. It's criminal that camera manufacturers can't, in 2016, give us the tools needed to compete.

First you have to define the tools you want and despite your post-storm you have still not even touched on the feasibility of incorporating functionality and reliability of the Cam ranger into an existing camera body.
If this is your 'favourite topic' I am sure you can provide that confirmation and educate me.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

canon and nikon as market share leaders have been acting way too conservative. they continued to pump out tiny-sensor digital compact cameras (powershot and coolpix) like crazy, when it was clear that people were not interested to buy them any longer.

When did ILC unit shipments surpass P&S? June of this year. In October, it was pretty much a 50:50 split between P&S and ILCs. So clearly, there are still plenty of people interested to buy P&S cameras.

I'd tell you to get your facts straight, but it's evident that doing so is beyond your capability.

had canon (and nikon) initiated the transition to smaller, fully capable, connected (!) and less expensive (sub €/$ 1000) mirrorless cameras, both interchangeable lens camera systems and larger-sensor fixed lens compacts (1", APS-C, FF) systems sooner, like starting in 2013 when challenger Sony launched such products (esp. A7, A6000 and RX series) then overall unit sales of dedicated cameras would likely (!) not be in such continued steep decline.

Had challenger Sony's products actually sold better than Canon and Nikon's competing products in those ranges, perhaps Canon and Nikon would have been motivated to change their strategy. But the reality is that Sony tried to play in the dSLR segment, and failed because they were unable to compete with Canon and Nikon so they abandoned the segment in favor of the MILC segment, because Canon and Nikon aren't (yet) major players there. Well, except that Canon is now #3 in the MILC segment and gaining ground.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The tech is out there, the software is out there, for some reason none of the manufacturers can pull that together.

Exactly.

And, it's cost them dearly. They sat around and let the cell phone industry wipe out the bulk of their sales and just let it happen, while spending millions of dollars to get, like, one stop better dynamic range. Such misplaced priorities.

Why oh why hasn't Canon come out with a dSLR with LTE, a Facebook app, Candy Crush, and a private browsing mode for porn? Clearly, their priorities are very misplaced.

 

[hbr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

As I see it the smart phone customer pays a carrier that spent millions in developing a network of towers, etc. a monthly fee to have access to the internet and the carrier's cellular network. Their work had been building for many years and it was only natural for the smart phone manufacturers to add cameras and *** to their devices. Then the huge rise of social media that gave the customers an easy way to share to photos meant that people that found regular cameras inconvenient to their needs abandoned them or used them in situations where the regular camera would be a hindrance. I own a lot of good camera gear but sometimes sharing a photo or two with my smart phone is too convenient.
Of course that ate heavily into the camera manufacturer's sales and profits, but that doesn't mean the camera market is doomed.
Technology changes very rapidly, (vinyl records and cassette tapes to 8 tracks to cds then to streaming audio), and I am sure the camera manufacturers will find ways to find new technology methods to stay profitable.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The tech is out there, the software is out there, for some reason none of the manufacturers can pull that together.

Exactly.

And, it's cost them dearly. They sat around and let the cell phone industry wipe out the bulk of their sales and just let it happen, while spending millions of dollars to get, like, one stop better dynamic range. Such misplaced priorities.

Why oh why hasn't Canon come out with a dSLR with LTE, a Facebook app, Candy Crush, and a private browsing mode for porn? Clearly, their priorities are very misplaced.

Seriously? That's the best response you can come up with?

I'm actually beginning to think AvTvM's scorn is justified. How anyone can possibly deny that camera manufacturers seriously misread the market for internet connectivity is beyond me.

This isn't something I've made up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCJDIf-NeA

Perhaps people who don't have to make a living with a camera and can simply play with pictures at their leisure don't get it. But, if top of the line cameras are truly supposed to be for professionals working under pressure and under deadline, it's a failure if manufacturers can't make their equipment connect as easily as a smart phone.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The tech is out there, the software is out there, for some reason none of the manufacturers can pull that together.

Exactly.

And, it's cost them dearly. They sat around and let the cell phone industry wipe out the bulk of their sales and just let it happen, while spending millions of dollars to get, like, one stop better dynamic range. Such misplaced priorities.

Why oh why hasn't Canon come out with a dSLR with LTE, a Facebook app, Candy Crush, and a private browsing mode for porn? Clearly, their priorities are very misplaced.

Seriously? That's the best response you can come up with?

I'm actually beginning to think AvTvM's scorn is justified. How anyone can possibly deny that camera manufacturers seriously misread the market for internet connectivity is beyond me.

This isn't something I've made up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfCJDIf-NeA

Perhaps people who don't have to make a living with a camera and can simply play with pictures at their leisure don't get it. But, if top of the line cameras are truly supposed to be for professionals working under pressure and under deadline, it's a failure if manufacturers can't make their equipment connect as easily as a smart phone.

I guess the references to Candy Crush and porn weren't adequate. Seriously, let me try that again.

See that winky thing above? Yuk it up, these are the jokes.

For the record, yes, camera manufacturers should certainly have built better connectivity into their products by now. And no, I don't play Candy Crush, nor do I think Canon should promote viewing of porn on their ILCs.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

From unfocused:

Meanwhile, some 20-something is going to steal your wedding assignments because she can promise the bride that a selection of her pictures will be up on the bride's Facebook wedding page before the guests sit down at the reception

Sure, if the bride is happy with iPhone quality images and where the 20-year old will do it for peanuts and where the bride's choice is 'iphone pictures or nothing'. Pay $500 and the bride will expect better. They probably would not pay for a professional anyway.
Or the photographer fits a Camranger.

I've heard that argument so many times I want to puke.

Let me explain it more slowly this time.

The customer is what matters in business. Every business person should strive to make the customer happy.

I use wedding photography only as an example. It applies to many other types of work.

The typical wedding couple is in their 20s or 30s. They have grown up with internet connectivity. They routinely and instantly document every aspect of their lives. That's the way it is. It isn't wrong or right, it just is.

It isn't a question of what the bride or groom might be demanding (although it certainly may be shortly). It is a question of what will impress and please them. If a photographer is truly interested in competing and attracting new business, he or she ought to want to outdo the competition. Like it or not, the bride's cousin with an iPhone is competition. Competition for pleasing the bride. Getting there first matters a great deal. It always has.

So, if the photographer can give the bride a few nice pictures before the end of the evening that she can post to social media, that is going to make for a happy customer.

It should be the photographer's choice as to whether or not he or she wants to try to meet that goal.

The problem is that until now camera manufacturers have decided for photographers that they don't deserve to meet that goal.

That's a failure on the part of the camera manufacturers. And, it is a disservice to their customers.

I use the example of the 20-something stealing the business to make the point that young people who have grown up with social media have certain expectation and young photographers are more open to trying to meet those expectations. So, what I'm really saying is that if you are an established wedding photographer who thinks he doesn't have to respect and cater to social media, just be prepared to lose work in the near future to a young photographer who has figured out how to meet those desires.

It might make you feel better to sneer at social media, but that isn't going to make it go away. It is only going to get more important and central to our lives and its a shame that camera manufacturers so far has done such a lousy job serving the very people who need connectivity the most in a competitive market.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

From unfocused:

Meanwhile, some 20-something is going to steal your wedding assignments because she can promise the bride that a selection of her pictures will be up on the bride's Facebook wedding page before the guests sit down at the reception

Sure, if the bride is happy with iPhone quality images and where the 20-year old will do it for peanuts and where the bride's choice is 'iphone pictures or nothing'. Pay $500 and the bride will expect better. They probably would not pay for a professional anyway.
Or the photographer fits a Camranger.

I've heard that argument so many times I want to puke.

Let me explain it more slowly this time.

The customer is what matters in business. Every business person should strive to make the customer happy.

I use wedding photography only as an example. It applies to many other types of work.

The typical wedding couple is in their 20s or 30s. They have grown up with internet connectivity. They routinely and instantly document every aspect of their lives. That's the way it is. It isn't wrong or right, it just is.

It isn't a question of what the bride or groom might be demanding (although it certainly may be shortly). It is a question of what will impress and please them. If a photographer is truly interested in competing and attracting new business, he or she ought to want to outdo the competition. Like it or not, the bride's cousin with an iPhone is competition. Competition for pleasing the bride. Getting there first matters a great deal. It always has.

So, if the photographer can give the bride a few nice pictures before the end of the evening that she can post to social media, that is going to make for a happy customer.

It should be the photographer's choice as to whether or not he or she wants to try to meet that goal.

The problem is that until now camera manufacturers have decided for photographers that they don't deserve to meet that goal.

That's a failure on the part of the camera manufacturers. And, it is a disservice to their customers.

I use the example of the 20-something stealing the business to make the point that young people who have grown up with social media have certain expectation and young photographers are more open to trying to meet those expectations. So, what I'm really saying is that if you are an established wedding photographer who thinks he doesn't have to respect and cater to social media, just be prepared to lose work in the near future to a young photographer who has figured out how to meet those desires.

It might make you feel better to sneer at social media, but that isn't going to make it go away. It is only going to get more important and central to our lives and its a shame that camera manufacturers so far has done such a lousy job serving the very people who need connectivity the most in a competitive market.

No I believe you are conflating several ideas.

I do not believe there are a swarm of professional wedding shooters who want to Facebook images on the fly, a few maybe, but not many. Besides they have very workable and better options now, after all few people are going to want to use OOC images on the fly, most would pass to an assistant with a laptop or iPad get minor corrections and crops and then be ready, this can be done in camera but seriously, if you are doing that you are not doing your actual job.

I do believe there are many professionals who want to be able to send those files direct to the laptop or iPad without a break in their workflow so the assistant can get the stuff out there on the fly after adjustments, and in my experience the WFT's are expensive and clumsy. I also think there are many professionals that would find useful a built in simple and robust remote control of their cameras via WiFi (that's my group and we now use the CamRanger or one of several competitors).

I also believe there are many 80D and 6D users who want to show their sunset or a picture of their meal instantly, and I believe those cameras should be set up for simple upload to Facebook and other social media sites if they choose.

So I see three different and distinct user groups/applications for good WiFi in DSLR's, and I think the manufacturers have let themselves down up to now in not doing it.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

From unfocused:

Meanwhile, some 20-something is going to steal your wedding assignments because she can promise the bride that a selection of her pictures will be up on the bride's Facebook wedding page before the guests sit down at the reception

Sure, if the bride is happy with iPhone quality images and where the 20-year old will do it for peanuts and where the bride's choice is 'iphone pictures or nothing'. Pay $500 and the bride will expect better. They probably would not pay for a professional anyway.
Or the photographer fits a Camranger.

I've heard that argument so many times I want to puke.

Let me explain it more slowly this time.

The customer is what matters in business. Every business person should strive to make the customer happy.

I use wedding photography only as an example. It applies to many other types of work.

The typical wedding couple is in their 20s or 30s. They have grown up with internet connectivity. They routinely and instantly document every aspect of their lives. That's the way it is. It isn't wrong or right, it just is.

It isn't a question of what the bride or groom might be demanding (although it certainly may be shortly). It is a question of what will impress and please them. If a photographer is truly interested in competing and attracting new business, he or she ought to want to outdo the competition. Like it or not, the bride's cousin with an iPhone is competition. Competition for pleasing the bride. Getting there first matters a great deal. It always has.

So, if the photographer can give the bride a few nice pictures before the end of the evening that she can post to social media, that is going to make for a happy customer.

It should be the photographer's choice as to whether or not he or she wants to try to meet that goal.

The problem is that until now camera manufacturers have decided for photographers that they don't deserve to meet that goal.

That's a failure on the part of the camera manufacturers. And, it is a disservice to their customers.

I use the example of the 20-something stealing the business to make the point that young people who have grown up with social media have certain expectation and young photographers are more open to trying to meet those expectations. So, what I'm really saying is that if you are an established wedding photographer who thinks he doesn't have to respect and cater to social media, just be prepared to lose work in the near future to a young photographer who has figured out how to meet those desires.

It might make you feel better to sneer at social media, but that isn't going to make it go away. It is only going to get more important and central to our lives and its a shame that camera manufacturers so far has done such a lousy job serving the very people who need connectivity the most in a competitive market.

And so you sidestep the key question which is

First you have to define the tools you want and despite your post-storm you have still not even touched on the feasibility of incorporating functionality and reliability of the Cam ranger into an existing camera body.
If this is your 'favourite topic' I am sure you can provide that confirmation and educate me.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

It might make you feel better to sneer at social media, but that isn't going to make it go away. It is only going to get more important and central to our lives and its a shame that camera manufacturers so far has done such a lousy job serving the very people who need connectivity the most in a competitive market.

There is, of course, a branch of professional photographers whose livelihood depends on getting images out quickly and that is sports photographers - they manage with current technology to meet the needs of the (very demanding!) editors to get images up on websites. Image from camera to internet - are you saying that a bride at a wedding is more demanding?

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

mike forget you demagogic shit. Canon Defense League has lost that battle. Connectivity offered in Canon cameras today is *PATHETIC*. Full stop.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

mike forget you demagogic S___. Canon Defense League has lost that battle. Connectivity offered in Canon cameras today is *PATHETIC*. Full stop.

Show me where I have said that the wifi in Canon cameras is adequate...I dare you

So prove to me it is possible to offer a significantly improved wifi connectivity. You are so convinced it is possible you must have a reason for believing it. Prove it to me....I dare you. Or are you relying on the Donald Trump defence - "if you don't agree with me it is because you are biased and I am too scared to defend what I say".

Show me where I have defended Canon. I dare you.

My viewpoint is based on technological capability. Your is based on unfounded emotion.
To quote Rod Tidwell : "SHOW ME THE MONEY"

 

[AvTvM]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

it is technologically easily possible. Buy a 5 WiFi chip and solder it into camera. Attach a 50 cent antenna around LCD. Stick suitable firmware in that some guys in Bangalore wrote for 5000 bucks. Done.