What should be my first dslr?

[Ang829]

Hey everyone!
This is my first posting here and I'm not sure this is the right place to ask...
However, I'm looking to finally purchase what will be my first dslr and I need advice/opinions on what to get. I've been doing some research, reading reviews, etc. and I'm trying to decide between the canon t2i or the canon 7d. I know that they're kind of a gap in the price difference between the two but that doesn't matter to me. The thing is, I want thsi camera to be one that I can learn and practice on but I'm also a poor college student so I would like for this camera to last me a couple years at least before I upgrade. So what I want to know is, which camera should I get? I'm sure that it might be a little easier starting out with the t2i but is that a camera that I will outgrow quickly? And also, is the 7d really that much better? If so I'm willing to spend the extra money but at the same time I'm wondering if the 7d is going to be too complex for me as a beginner?
I would like to be able to photograph a variety of things such as: children, landscape/wildlife and action sports (i.e. motocross and kids sporting games).
Any advice/opinions/tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!

-Ang

 

[neuroanatomist]

For the subjects you indicate, the 7D will be substantially better. If you'd expressed an interest in landscapes and portraits, the Rebel would do nicely, but for fast-moving subjects, the AF of the Rebel is limiting (that was the main reason I went from a T1i to a 7D).

 

[bigblue1ca]

action sports (i.e. motocross and kids sporting games).

As Neuro has said, if you want to shoot your children's sports, go with the 7D. Then after that start saving for a 70-200 lens.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You do not mention lenses. Getting good lenses will cost much more than a camera body. I'd go with a Rebel refurb from the Canon store and a couple of good lenses. You will keep and use good lenses for many years, but bodies come and go.

You will be wasting your money to buy a 7D and then get a cheapo lens.

 

[smirkypants]

The 7D is not too complex for someone just starting out. It has settings for people who know nothing and settings for people who are experts. If you know very little, you can set the camera on the beginner settings. As you learn more and grow you can learn to take advantage of its features. The great thing is that we live in the era of youtube and there are thousands of videos to help you learn and do more. All you need to do is take the time and put in the effort.

The 7D is the perfect camera for someone who doesn't know a lot but knows that he or she someday will. You really don't have to worry about outgrowing it. It's a great camera.

 

[Ang829]

Thanks for the great advice already. I was leaning towards the 7d in my heart. Now this may sound silly but I am a beginner so that's my excuse lol. What is the quality of the lens that are sold with the camera body, for instance the package deals at bestbuy? Or am I better off buying the camera body only and then buying a higher quality lens seperately? And if that's the route I should go, what is a good quality lens? And then in the near future I would like to purchase a good telephoto lens as well.

Thanks again!! This is my first time using this forum and I was pleasantly suprised with the amount of views and replies so quickly!

 

[Ang829]

Oh and is bestbuy a good place to make my purchase or can anyone recommend other places? Thanks!

 

[papa-razzi]

I would buy at B&H. Most everything offers free shipping, they have a great return policy, ship fast, etc. You won't get a better price at Best Buy.

For the 7D, I would get the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS. This is the best general purpose lens for a crop body, and as good as an L lens. A little pricey for a non-L lens, but worth every penny.

The second lens I would get is the EF 50 f/1.8. Around $100, and it will give you the learning experience of a fast lens to play with Depth of Field, something to shoot low-light, no flash, moving subjects.

Those two lenses will cover you for a while as you move up the learning curve.

 

[ctmike]

Not to muddy the waters further, but a 60D might split the difference between the T2i and the 7D nicely, leaving you more flexibility for lenses. Just a thought... Good luck!

 

[Leopard Lupus]

I would place a vote for the 60D or 7D.
I have owned both, but now shoot with a 5D mk ll.
The 60D is a great camera to learn on. But if you are looking for durability, and for some that is the largest deciding factor, the 7D is a great option. The AF points on the 7D are wonderful, but the 60D isn't too far behind.
Camera bodies are important, but so is glass. Having a simple kit lens may leave you frustrated as they tend to get boring for some shooters.
You mentioned you are on a budget: Adding the 50mm f/1.8 ( $120 here in the states ) with addition to your kit lens, is an awesome starting point. That gives you a fast 1.8 as well as a zoom and prime lens combo.
As mentioned by papa-razzi, go for something other than Best Buy. They sell cameras, but the half of the information listed in their photography section is mislabeled, not to mention returning with their policy if your item is defected is a massive pain.
Personally, I either shop local or at B&H online. B&H has become my favorite lens retailer, as they carry 10x a larger selection plus a wide variety of brands that accept the Canon mount.
Let us know what you decide on!

 

[WildBill]

I love the combination of my 7D with my EF-S 15-85. Good IQ, affordable and a great walk around lens. The 17-55 is also a great choice, (better for low light situations) though more expensive. And I second the recommendation for B&H. Adorama is also a good reliable dealer. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[squarebox]

The other question one would ask is how soon do you need the camera? if you can wait a new Rebel camera will probably be announced next week and since teh 7d is old there is speculation that it will get announced this year. If you decide to go for the t2i i'd wait until next week to see if canon announces a newer version of the t2i.

But i second other people's advice that the lens are more important than the body. If you have the cash i'd recommend the 35mm f2 ($350 i think) over the 50mm 1.8 as the 50 is a little "long" that is to say zoomy on a crop.

 

[wickidwombat]

I'd also recommend going with B&H they are very good

 

[elflord]

Thanks for the great advice already. I was leaning towards the 7d in my heart. Now this may sound silly but I am a beginner so that's my excuse lol. What is the quality of the lens that are sold with the camera body, for instance the package deals at bestbuy? Or am I better off buying the camera body only and then buying a higher quality lens seperately? And if that's the route I should go, what is a good quality lens? And then in the near future I would like to purchase a good telephoto lens as well.

Thanks again!! This is my first time using this forum and I was pleasantly suprised with the amount of views and replies so quickly!

places to buy from:

bhphotovideo, adorama are reputable camera dealers.

Choose lenses first. A good lens on an entry level body will produce better results than a cheapo lens on a 7D.

Given the wide variety of subjects, you will probably want to get more than one lens. A good lens to begin with would be the 15-85 or the 17-55 f/2.8 or the tamron 17-50 f/2.8. I think the 15-85 might be sold with the camera.

Given your choice of subjects:

landscape: general purpose zoom (15-85, 17-55)
wildlife, motorcross, sport: some kind of telephoto, e.g. one of Canon's 70-200mm lenses.
kids: a fast prime, e.g. 50mm f/1.4, sigma 30mm f/1.4, canon's 35mm f/2 or 35mm f/1.4.

Getting some good lenses will cost $, but this is the right emphasis. Figure out how much you're prepared to spend, and put most of your money into lenses.

 

[dmills]

For me, I went with the 60d as my first DSLR, and spent money on lenses. My first was the 10-22, a fantastic first lens actually, as it teaches the important lesson of zooming with your feet, while still giving you amazing wide flexibility. Not long after, I got the 24-105 f/4. About a year later, I got the 70-200 2.8 2, and am likely going to be getting the 85 1.2 before I buy another body. I'm really happy with the 60d, and what I get from a new lens is more than I feel like I'd get from a better body.

 

[smirkypants]

I would definitely vote 7D over 60D. The price difference these days is nominal.

There is a coupon code at Adorama. I tend to think Adorama and B&H are pretty much equals at the head of the class. The code is: S1234567

With that you can get the 7D body only for just $1299, but I'm not sure how long it lasts.

I would definitely vote for the 17-55/2.8 lens. It is pro quality glass and if you decide to sell it, you'll get back like 80-90% of what you paid on eBay. It's highly desirable. Of course the lens isn't cheap, but it rocks.

 

[jdramirez]

I'd vote for the T2i. Bodies devalue relatively quickly in regards to resale value, but in terms of performance, one generation to the next you will find only incremental improvements save for a few exceptions. Both cameras have the same size sensor and both have good low light capabilities (iso).

What you are losing with by going with the T2i is cross auto focus (AF) points and the number of AF points. I have the 60D and I would like to be able to select a AF point when I am composing a shot. The 9 AF points is fine, but I would like more. To pay an extra 800 to get more AF points... no. The 7D's shots per second is also much faster. If you plan on taking shot after shot after shot... this might be a good way to go, but the best results are often the result of timing and expectation.

What I have done so far in upgrading bodies is to find a heck of a deal. Then use the camera for 2 or so years, and then sell the used camera for roughly the same amount I purchased it. Then I use that money to help pay for the upgrade. It is easier said than done, but it is entirely possible.

Most people who buy a DSLR don't bother to figure out what the camera is capable of. It's mind boggling. I'd suggest getting a book that discusses your specific camera.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Rebel-Digital-Field-Guide/dp/0470648635/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328192434&sr=1-3

And also get a book discussing depth of field, lighting, and composition. Much of it, you will already know, but if you don't know it, it will be invaluable.

Chiildren, T2i
landscape/wildlife, T2i
Action sports, 7D

And I'm sure this has been said by others (I didn't bother reading their posts), but I would suggest using the money you would spend getting the 7D and getting better lenses.

Get the T2i body for $500 (saving you $800 you would have spent on the 7D). Don't buy the camera with the kit lens as you will want to replace that eventually anyway.
Then use that 800 on the following:
Ballhead tripod (probably your most important investment as it can turn a bad lens into something that isn't awful). You can find this one for about 30 or 40 bucks when it comes back in stock.
http://www.amazon.com/Dolica-AX620B100-62-Inch-Proline-Tripod/dp/B001D60LG8/ref=pd_cp_p_0
A speedlite flash. You don't have to get this one, but when you can bounce light off of the ceiling or a side wall, you will open up what you can do with your camera. And when you learn to use the flash when it is off the camera, that will bring some dramatic results.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Speedlite-II-Digital-Cameras/dp/B001CCAISE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328192849&sr=1-1
Here's a cheaper flash for 70 bucks or so.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GZLFHM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1
Now for the lenses. Presuming you get the cheaper flash, we have about 700 left to spend.
15-85mm (a near tack sharp lens for a reasonable price). There are also good options with Tamron and Sigma, but I don't know nearly enough about them to make a suggestion.
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/02852/Canon-EF-S-15-85mm-f3.5-5.6-IS-USM-price.html
Unfortunately, that's about 650 bucks... so we are already out of money.
But if you don't mind stretching your budget a little, then go with a
50mm f/1.8. Incredibly large aperture, you can find them for about $100 and they give you amazing results for the money (and just for reference, the wider the aperture, the shallower the depth of field).
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/00007/Canon-EF-50mm-f1.8-II-price.html
And then get a 55-250mm for about $150. It's a good/great performing outdoor lens, and if you wanted a long range zoom lens for indoor work, you are paying $1000... so you will keep waiting on that.
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/01168/Canon-EF-S-55-250mm-f4-5.6-IS-price.html

So after all is said and done, 500+650+100+40+70+150=1510 and going to the library to read the book.

That should get you well on your way. I have never bought stuff used, but at this point I don't think that is a bad option to get everything you may need.

Keep in mind you can get a 90 day warranty for getting a refurbished from Canon directly and saving a few bucks. Also they have a canon loyalty program so you can save money on the T2i, though I think you have to trade in an old Canon. I don't know... I don't get used stuff.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_22751

 

[Cosk]

...but I'm also a poor college student so I would like for this camera to last me a couple years at least before I upgrade. So what I want to know is, which camera should I get?

I would like to be able to photograph a variety of things such as: children, landscape/wildlife and action sports (i.e. motocross and kids sporting games).

You do not mention lenses. Getting good lenses will cost much more than a camera body. I'd go with a Rebel refurb from the Canon store and a couple of good lenses. You will keep and use good lenses for many years, but bodies come and go.

You will be wasting your money to buy a 7D and then get a cheapo lens.

Spokane said it well... the most common mistake you can make is putting all your money in a camera body, and slapping a cheap lens on it.

Here are some non-intuitive things to know about DSLRs:

It's all about the lens:
~90% of your image quality is the lens. You can put a great lens on a 5yr-old entry-level camera body and take amazing photos. You can put a cheap lens on the newest pro body and take mediocre photos.

Lenses don't depreciate... bodies do.
In 2006, I bought a Canon 30D body for $1600, and a 50mm 1.4 lens for $300. 5 years later, the body is selling on ebay for $250, and the 50mm lens is selling used for $300. In our world of iPod and laptop economics, that probably doesn't make sense... but that's the way it works. Over a 5-year horizon, it's as if you borrow your lenses and rent bodies.

When you look for lenses, aperture is more important than zoom.
If you look at two lenses:
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 vs.
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS

The 2nd number is really important... since this is your first DLSR, I'm going to assume this is new to you. If it's not, I apologize. The lower the f/# (sometimes written 1:#), generally, the better images you will produce. Low f/# lenses are called 'Fast Lenses' - but speed is only part of the story. Have you seen photographs that look almost 3D, with things in the background blurring out? That effect requires a large aperture (small f/#, or 'fast lens'). The problem is that that number also is directly correlated with the diameter of the lens... which requires more glass... and glass is heavy and expensive. So unfortunately better Image Quality (IQ), bigger, heavier, and more expensive are all on the same side of the scale.

With that, I strongly recommend picking one excellent lens, and good lenses are ~$1000.
Then, take whatever money is left in your budget and buy a used body off eBay.

In 4 years, your $1000 lens will still be worth $1000. You can give the camera body to the neighbor kid to learn and buy a 7D off ebay for $500. Once your student loans are paid off, then go get a whiz bang body.


Finally, You said you want to take children, action sports, wildlife, and landscapes.
Unfortunately those are all different lenses.

Pick one place to start. Below are some suggestions... not the best, but generally good bang for your buck.

Good Generic lens - Landscape, Children:
Canon 17-55 f/2.8
Decent substitute: Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 <I haven't used this one... so do some more research

Excellent for Children and portraits
50mm 1.8


Excellent for outdoor Action Sports and Wildlife
70-200 f/4 IS

For Landscapes
All you need is a rock-solid tripod and a good alarm clock... the lens and bodies are far less important.


Finally, get a good book... DSLR for Dummies is a pretty good start.

 

[theqspeaks]

For a beginner, the T2i will be plenty of camera for you to learn on. Take the $800 in savings and get the Canon 17-55mm f/2.8. Or, if you want to save a bit of money, the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 VC is a very nice lens that's also very sharp.

Sure, the 7D's superior AF and fps will be a boon when doing action shots, but for a total beginner just learning, the T2i should be more than sufficient to get good action shots. Plus, with the savings put toward superior lenses, you're overall image output will be that much better (action and non-action.)

Or, consider getting a used 50D. Can be had for half the cost of the 7D.

When I bought my first DSLR as an advanced beginner, it took me 2 years and 30,000+ exposures to outgrow my T1i, and only then because I'm starting to pick up some semi-pro work on the side. But the good lenses I bought, I'll be using for several more years to come.

Everyone loves the gee-whiz features on better camera bodies, but investing more in glass is almost always the right choice. Especially for folks just starting out in the world of DSLRs.

 

[Ang829]

Wow thank you all so much for all the information and suggestions. This is all very new to me so I'm trying to do as much learning and researching before making the purchase. I realize that its pretty unanimous that the lenses are where I should really invest my money. I just wanted to throw this out there and get some feedback... Looking on B&H I wanted to ask you guys about the lenses that come with the camera body to see if they're any good or if I should just get the body only.

EOS Rebel T2i Digital SLR Camera w/ EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens for $770. Or, body only for $500.

EOS 7D SLR Digital Camera with 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens for $1500. Or, body only for $1340.

Also someone asked how big of a hurry I'm in to make a purchase. I'm not particularly in a big rush, I first want to weigh my options and make the best purchase that I can. And to start I just want to have a camera and good quality lens to work with and learn with, then over time continue to invest in lenses.

Since the 7d is a couple years old, is there any chance of it going down in price?

Thanks again everyone!