Where are you EOS 70D?

[jrista]

Wake up Canon. I need the 7D Mark II to replace the teleconverters.

Hmm, odd. I'd happily pick up a 600mm L II and a couple teleconverters to replace the 7D myself...I just don't have the cash readily on hand to do so. With a 1200mm lens (600mm f/4 L II + 2x TC III) and a 1D X, the 7D couldn't keep up if its life depended on it. Hell, the 5D III would probably step all over the 7D in that scenario once the f/8 AF firmware update is dropped... (In which case, I actually could afford the telephoto/teleconverter/5DIII setup, and would definitely go for it.)

 

[Terry Rogers]

Here is my perfect 70D

New sensor tech, but doesn't need to be more than 18-20 mp. I should produce good pictures up to at least iso 6400 with improved dynamic range at iso100 to at least keep up with Nikon/Sony sensors
Alloy body.
AFMA a must
keep the swivel screen
97-98% viewfinder (sure 100% would be great, but I'm not that picky)
auto focus system of the current 7D, or at least something better than the t4i (all cross type in a rebel is a huge improvement) to differentiate it.
Pop op flash to act as a master
While some might like wifi and gps, not such a huge deal for me.

So essentially a camera like the current 7D but with slightly lower build quality (weather sealing and such), maybe a less sophisticated AF system, swivel screen, and a new sensor.

Put all that into a $1000 camera and I think they'd have a winner.

Oh, and kit it with the 15-85, not the 17-85

 

[Brock]

<p>We’ve been told previously that a 70D will appear before a 7D replacement. It’s said to be an incremental upgrade from the 60D. Although, we’ve heard that wifi and gps will be added to the xxD line with the 70D.</p>
<p>The image sensor may remain at 18mp as Canon separates the 7D Mark II with a new, higher performing APS-C sensor. This makes a lot of sense as I think the APS-C segment needs a jolt and not more of the same.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
[/html]

NOOOOOOO!!

http://nooooooooooooooo.com

The D5200 is now at 24MP. People will look at the Canon box and see 18MP and then the Nikon and see 24MP. It's obvious which one most new purchasers (who aren't already invested in lenses) are going to trend towards choosing.

Unless Canon is planning on competing on price, they really need a new, higher MegaPixel sensor in the 70D / 7D Mark II to pass down to the T5i, T6i, T7i.

 

[Aputure]

ANOTHER 18mp sensor would be a joke...unless it is a NEW 18mp sensor with improved performance. Seriously, they've used the same one too many times already.

 

[fman]

I wouldn't call it a "bad" sensor. Roger Clark has some interesting comparisons of IQ between the 7D and a number of other cameras, including the 5D II, 1D IV, etc. The 7D in those comparisons is actually good, captures more detail, just as much if not more light, all despite the added noise. On a size-normal basis, the 7D tends to outperform even the 1D IV until higher ISO settings.

It is not a "great" sensor, but technically and statistically speaking neither is it a "bad" sensor...it is just a middle-ground sensor that neither "wows" like the D800 nor truly sucks like a cheap P&S with a 16mp microsensor with pixels barely large enough to accommodate the wavelengths of light its supposed to be capturing. I don't think any of that actually changes your point, however... ;P

The current 18 MP Canon sensor is not particularly bad (but not good either), especially when compared with other Canon sensors.

It's rather that Canon's sensor tech lags years behind Sony that can be found e.g. in Nikon D5100/7000 or Olympus OM-D E-M5 (which is despite the smaller sensor size is as good or better than the 18MP Canons).

So when compared with Sony sensors it becomes visible that all that years passed brought no IQ improvement to Canon sensors (high ISO noise, dynamic range) and it would be particularly bad that 70D re-used the same old tech meaning 2 more years with no IQ improvement whatsoever for APS-C Canons.

Oh and I'm not wishing for more megapixels...that would be the worst thing to happen IQ wise.

I would not mind Canon using Sony sensors for APS-C bodies if they cannot keep up in sensor tech.

 

[eyeland]

http://nooooooooooooooo.com

+1
epic

 

[verysimplejason]

70D will just be a little bit better T4I. I'm not so surprised. Maybe, they'll add a little bit of in-sensor noise reduction that will make the IQ a little bit mushier but a little bit cleaner. And maybe, they'll add WIFI and restore back the sorely missed AFMA but that's it. This will be good for those who wants a bigger-than-rebel first DSLR but for most of us, we'll just wait for the next big thing.

 

[fman]

maybe it´s just impossible to improve the sensor with canons current 500nm manufacturing process?

they have kept improving it for what 8-10 years?

so until canon has a new manufacturing process online they would have no other choice then using the same sensor.

I'm ready to accept that QE can be improved with getting rid of the current 500nm manufacturing process (http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/24/full-frame-dslr-cameras-canon-stays-the-course/), however Canon sensors have huge reading noise at low ISO (which limits the dynamic range).
http://www.sensorgen.info/

Can that also be improved just by changing the process?

I fear that Canon sensor tech cannot keep up with e.g. Sony not just because of a single reason but a multitude of reasons so probably the cure is also not that simple...but let's hope that they can fix it and don't introduce any new APS-C body with the old (by now basically obsolete) tech 18MP Canon sensor.

 

[Marsu42]

It’s said to be an incremental upgrade from the 60D

Thanks Canon for not obsoleting my 60d :-> ... I already had a feeling the 70d would be just a 60d with the latest gimmicks (digic5 & fw features like hdr, live view af pixels, wifi, gps) and afma, if fast lenses are used. This really would be 100% Canon-like.

If this is released before the 7d2 (maybe end of 2013?) it proves Canon simply cannot do any better in the aps-c segment atm and needs the higher ff sensor area that has more potential left.

 

[surfing_geek]

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/20130124_584693.html


Can any provide a 'better-than-machine-translation' translation of this interview? I'm struggling to make any sense of the automatic one but unfortunately do not speak japanese! I'd be really interested to see what was ACTUALLY said.


Cheers!

 

[carlosmeldano]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras

check the table at the bottom of the page.

7D started in 2009Q3. 550D followed in 2010Q1, 600D in 2011Q1 and 650D in 2012Q2. 60D started in 2010Q3, 60Da in 2012Q2. 6 cameras with the same sensor.

life cycle of the xxD was 1.5 years for 10D-20D-30D-40D, 2 years for 50D, and 60D is on the market for 2.5+ years.

as after 7D, the next rebel after 7Dmk2 will get the new sensor. it will probably be the 700D or the 750D.

assuming that the xxD life-cycle continues like this, 70D with the same old sensor will be very outdated in 2014, but we'll have to wait till early 2016 for the 80D (2.5 years from 2013Q2).

do you still think canon will put the same old 18mp sensor in 70D?

 

[wickidwombat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras

check the table at the bottom of the page.

7D started in 2009Q3. 550D followed in 2010Q1, 600D in 2011Q1 and 650D in 2012Q2. 60D started in 2010Q3, 60Da in 2012Q2. 6 cameras with the same sensor.

life cycle of the xxD was 1.5 years for 10D-20D-30D-40D, 2 years for 50D, and 60D is on the market for 2.5+ years.

as after 7D, the next rebel after 7Dmk2 will get the new sensor. it will probably be the 700D or the 750D.

assuming that the xxD life-cycle continues like this, 70D with the same old sensor will be very outdated in 2014, but we'll have to wait till early 2016 for the 80D (2.5 years from 2013Q2).

do you still think canon will put the same old 18mp sensor in 70D?

You forgot the eos m same sensor
And yes they will

 

[ashmadux]

I think they're trying to get some sort of record for wringing the most profit from a sensor, over the longest lifespan

+1

Although, from a business perspective, I gotta hand it to Canon for actually achieving that. That IS kind of the holy grail of business...to make a product that lasts forever.

the most impressive part is how they are wringing such a lot of profit / life out of such a BAD sensor

I wouldn't call it a "bad" sensor. Roger Clark has some interesting comparisons of IQ between the 7D and a number of other cameras, including the 5D II, 1D IV, etc. The 7D in those comparisons is actually good, captures more detail, just as much if not more light, all despite the added noise. On a size-normal basis, the 7D tends to outperform even the 1D IV until higher ISO settings.

It is not a "great" sensor, but technically and statistically speaking neither is it a "bad" sensor...it is just a middle-ground sensor that neither "wows" like the D800 nor truly sucks like a cheap P&S with a 16mp microsensor with pixels barely large enough to accommodate the wavelengths of light its supposed to be capturing. I don't think any of that actually changes your point, however... ;P

Nope, that terrible 7d sensor doesn't outperform anything. T2i had the best implementation out of all of the uses of this sensor, save for the sharpness of the t4i. 7d sensor is just too noisy

 

[taz]

It is ridiculous if they put the same old 18 mpix sensor in the 70D!
I will definitely NOT buy 70D if it uses the same sensor.

Make at least a new sensor with better iso performance and better dynamic range!!!

I dont care about how many pixels it has. Just improve high iso performance and dynamic range and I will buy it

 

[insanitybeard]

Nope, that terrible 7d sensor doesn't outperform anything. T2i had the best implementation out of all of the uses of this sensor, save for the sharpness of the t4i. 7d sensor is just too noisy

Yeah, makes me wonder how I can get any usable pictures out of the 7D.....

I don't disagree it needs updating, but the way it is described by some would have you believe you might as well just not bother taking pictures with it.

 

[Plainsman]

It is ridiculous if they put the same old 18 mpix sensor in the 70D!
I will definitely NOT buy 70D if it uses the same sensor.

Make at least a new sensor with better iso performance and better dynamic range!!!

I dont care about how many pixels it has. Just improve high iso performance and dynamic range and I will buy it

I would bet a small amount that the 70D - if it comes out soon- ie well ahead of a 7D2 launch will have the same 18Mp sensor as the 60D.

Canon certainly needs to be more innovative by even just thinking about subletting more sensor designs to Sony or Toshiba.

 

[ddashti]

Where are you EOS 7D Mark II?
What will happen to the 60Da after the 70D is released?
Will Canon try to pull off a 70Da?

 

[Brock]

It is ridiculous if they put the same old 18 mpix sensor in the 70D!
I will definitely NOT buy 70D if it uses the same sensor.

Make at least a new sensor with better iso performance and better dynamic range!!!

I dont care about how many pixels it has. Just improve high iso performance and dynamic range and I will buy it

I would bet a small amount that the 70D - if it comes out soon- ie well ahead of a 7D2 launch will have the same 18Mp sensor as the 60D.

Canon certainly needs to be more innovative by even just thinking about subletting more sensor designs to Sony or Toshiba.

Canon doesn't have a problem w/ sensor designs, just shrinking fabrication.

The fact that they are able to get the performance they do within the 0.5 µm design rules shows they are, if not the very best sensor designer, close to it.

When they finally do shrink the process I have lofty expectations.

I still think that it's crazy to keep the same sensor in the 70D & don't believe it. There's no way they can drag it out another 2.5 years. So unless there's some secret sauce that will make it magic I don't know how they can justify it.

 

[sandymandy]

It will more likely be 6D sensor reduced in size.

 

[RLPhoto]

I expect the 70D to be a repackaged 7D and the 7DII to be a step-up from that.