Here are the Canon EOS R7 and Canon EOS R10

[Michael Clark]

The RF-S18-150mm F3.5-6.3 IS STM seems to have the exactly same optical construction as the EF-M version. The MTF seems copy paste.

And while the latter is a nice lens for the M-system, this is not the kind of zoom one would pair with a typical 7D/D500 replacement, so that might tell where Canon sees the market for the R7

Canon never really made any EF-S lenses specifically for the 7-series, either. Most of the 7D/7DII owners I know used EF telephoto lenses with them. When we wanted to shoot wider angles of view, we used our 5-series bodies.

The RF-S lenses are more geared to the R10, but Canon will use them as kit lenses for the R7, just as they used EF-S lenses like the 28-135 and later the 18-135 in 7D/7DII kits, though most 7D/7DIIs were sold body only.

 

[Michael Clark]

EOS-M was successful for a reason. The R7 & R10 do not capture that reason.

It doesn't seem to me that Canon is even remotely going for the same market with the R7 and R10 as the market to which they have sold (and continue, within the context of the overall drop in ILC sales, to sell) a boatload of EOS M cameras.

It also doesn't seem to me to be logical to assume that just because there are now RF mount APS-C cameras that Canon HAS to discontinue manufacture, sales, and marketing of the EOS M system.

 

[Michael Clark]

Not unless the EOS-M market is significant enough in size. Will wait and see if Canon attempt to plug that hole in the market or just leave it, hoping for people to go for a bigger camera.

Or maybe they'll just keep selling EOS M cameras and lenses?

 

[Michael Clark]

That tarrif sunset before the R3 came out

On the other hand, I can see how some government bureaucrats might get upset that a specific camera body that was sold before those tariffs ended can now be updated to eliminate the condition that exempted it from the tariff, and thus try to collect the tariff that would have been collected if the camera had that capability when the user originally bought it.

 

[Michael Clark]

The R7 feels a bit meh! In some ways it looks great, price is ok but feels like a missed opportunity. Low res EVF, ugly 4 way controller, soft 4K 60p.
And the lenses...disappointing. Where is a decent bright APS-C zoom or wideangle? For the M at least we had a tiny and cheap 22mm pancake,
for these the only option is the much bigger and more expensive 35mm RF.

Canon still sells the EOS M system, too. If that's what you're into, get an M body and the EF-M 22mm.

There was never a really bright EF-S wide angle prime lens either. Or zoom for that matter. (17-55mm is more "normal" than WA on an APS-C body, in my opinion.)

 

[Andreasb]

The proof is never in the pudding. The proof of the pudding is in the taste. Please get your metaphors right.

I'm Swedish and I admit I get my English wrong from time to time, so I looked it up:

Merriam-Webster
Their summary:
Generally, the expressions are used to say that the real worth, success, or effectiveness of something can only be determined by putting it to the test by trying or using it, appearances and promises aside—just as the best test of a pudding is to eat it.

 

[hoodlum]

It looks like more RF-S lenses are coming soon

Here is the rumored Canon EOS RF-S mirrorless APS-C lens roadmap - Photo Rumors

With the latest APS-C cameras and lenses Canon did not release any future plans. I received a tip with the Canon EOS RF-S mirrorless lens roadmap – here are the upcoming APS-C lenses: Canon RF-S 22mm f/2 STM Canon RF-S 11-55mm f/4-4.5 IS STM Canon RF-S 55-250mm f/4.5-7.1 IS STM Canon RF-S...

photorumors.com

 

[canonmike]

I did a hands on review on the 90D nearly 3 years ago, and it's interesting for me to go back to it.

EOS 90D - Hands on review

The 90D arrived a little late this afternoon so had time for just a few measurements. It is not very substantial and won't be useful for driving in tent pegs, but it is light. It does provide a good grip for holding telephoto lenses. The download cable is a micro USB and Canon is so mean that it...

www.canonrumors.com

Thx. Always enjoy your measured, thoughtful insight into any given topic....will be interesting to see how the R7 will compare to the 90D, given all the speculation about potential similarities between the two bodies. I was more than pleasantly surprised at how low the R7 price came in, causing me to whip out my CC. Ha! Will ck out your 90D review, seeing as how I have not owned that particular body. Unlike the 7Dii body, I found my gen one 7D often lacking with occasionally unexplainable soft images, especially when using the gen one EF 1.4x extender, coupled to my gen II 70-200 F2.8L. On another related front, hope that Canon is taking so long on R1 announcement because they want to get it right. Do hope we are overwhelmed with every aspect of it, except the price. I can dream, can I not?

 

[Michael Clark]

Ouch. Not that I have any interest in buying an R7, but if I did this would kill the deal for me.

Me too, dang it!

The rotator cuff in my right shoulder doesn't allow me to shoot vertical with the stability I'd like without a set of vertical controls.

Oh well.

 

[Michael Clark]

Canon states that the sensor in the R7 is brand new

They've also said the same thing about previous recycled sensors that may have a slightly different filter stack in front of it.

 

[Michael Clark]

Yep. I saw it on the BH site. It’s an extra $400 here in the US, not a great savings from the $480 list, but it’s something.

The 18-150 is priced for $499 at B&H when I pull it up.

 

[Michael Clark]

R7 is better than R ?

That's about like asking if a 12mm open-end wrench is better than a 1/2" self-ratcheting box end-wrench.

That all depends upon what you want to do with it.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

The proof is never in the pudding. The proof of the pudding is in the taste. Please get your metaphors right.

That is the right metaphor. The proof is in the pudding. Quite commonly used in the US at any rate.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

The 18-150 is priced for $499 at B&H when I pull it up.

Interesting. The MSRP at the Canon USA web site is $479.99.

 

[Michael Clark]

I wouldn’t call the 90D’s 120K shutter life “abysmal”. It was a consumer/hobbyist product. For somebody who shoots a couple hundred pics every weekend, say 20K per year, that’s a six year life. Not bad for a consumer product.

It wasn’t meant for somebody who shoots hundreds or thousands of pics per day. Or who worries about resale value.

Six years isn't too bad until you've been using it for over seven years and the replacement has yet to be introduced.

I've never been worried about resale value. I hold onto cameras until they're basically worthless on the used market and then give them to relatives or donate them to the local high school photography department.

I have been worried about my 7D Mark II shutter wearing out now that I've been shooting 35-50K frames per year with it since mid-2015. It's also starting to show a few more hot pixels than it used to.

Until it came to light today that the R7 will not be provided with a grip, I had planned to order one. But my aging right shoulder can't handle shooting vertical without a set of dual controls. So I guess I'll be looking for a low mileage used 7D II to stash away until I need it.

I'm not about to start using my 5D Mark IV for the high volume telephoto work I use the 7DII to do. I only average 10-12K frames per year on the 5D IV, even though I use only it on more than half my shoots, and use it as a wide angle body on all the sports/action shoots I do with the 7DII as the primary body.

 

[Michael Clark]

That is the right metaphor. The proof is in the pudding. Quite commonly used in the US at any rate.

Quite commonly misused in the U.S. that way.

Kind of like "I could care less" when they're trying to say they couldn't care less.

 

[Michael Clark]

Interesting. The MSRP at the Canon USA web site is $479.99.

View attachment 203866

That is surprising. We'll see if B&H drops it to$479.99 or not.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon never really made any EF-S lenses specifically for the 7-series, either. Most of the 7D/7DII owners I know used EF telephoto lenses with them. When we wanted to shoot wider angles of view, we used our 5-series bodies.

Of course not, but that’s a silly strawman argument since any EF-S lens can mount on any Canon APS-C DSLR (the 10D notwithstanding).

I’d argue that lenses like EF-S 17-55/2.8 and 10-22/3.5-4.5 were aimed at the same target market as the 7-series DSLRs. Those lenses had better build quality (e.g., metal mounts) and better image quality than typical crop format lenses. Furthermore, the replacement of the 10-22 with the 10-18 (plastic mount, narrower aperture, and somewhat lower IQ) suggests that target market became less important to Canon over time (an idea further supported by the lack of a 7DIII and a mirrorless R7 that isn’t that either).

Of course most 7-series users used EF telephone lenses, the only EF-S telephoto lens was the 55-250 (which itself was updated a couple of times to make production costs lower, but hey, it sported a “silver ring for a luxury touch,” said Canon).

Another key point is that I suspect those who own more than one camera body are a tiny minority of Canon shooters. Sure, there are lots of us on this forum…but we are far from typical users.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Quite commonly misused in the U.S. that way.

Kind of like "I could care less" when they're trying to say they couldn't care less.

I couldn’t care less about metaphors involving pudding.

 

[Czardoom]

I'd much rather have a direct AF/M switch than have to go menu diving.

Of course, just like any reasonable person.