Is it finally happening? Canon RF 50mm f/1.4 USM [CR1]

Loudness is overrated.
People have complained about Canon since the 1DX.
They have lost some market share since then but they have pretty much maintained what they have now.
On the other hand, they stated publicly that they want 50% of the market and have yet to achieve that again.
Consistent loudness is a general marketing strategy. The R5's overheating chorus is an example.... don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Forum commentators are still mentioning it >3 years later in a derogatory way. Facts will not change their opinion or their future statements. It is confirmation bias that their choice of camera system is the best one.
 
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Wow, the vitriol directed at the poor old EF 50/1.4 in this thread is remarkable, considering that lens is about as good as it gets across the frame from f/4 through to 11, seemingly defying the physics of diffraction at smaller apertures. At f/2-and-a-bit it’s very good in the centre, the poorer boarders contributing to the bokeh which, looking back at images I’ve taken with it, was often very pleasing.
It would have been interesting to see the result if Canon had given it the 50/1.8 STM treatment, not the STM motor, but the improved accuracy of optical build and coatings which, if the 50 STM is anything to go by, would have substantially improved the centre at f/1.4. At the same time do away with the Early Learning Centre mechanicals.
However, I guess if this had been done it would have threatened the 50/1.2 sales, so was never to be. Shame really, it’s the awful feel of the lens that puts me off it, rather than the optical performance.
ef50/1.4 @f1.8. I sold it because I wasn't using it but it was pretty soft in general

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Jethro

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The iphone 16's rumour that spatial photos may come to life utilising the camera's lidar sensor could be very interesting for photography.
MacRumors is saying that the headline announcement at next week's Apple Event will be around the iPhone 15, and in particular the high-end version's photo/video specs - so this could be a real thing:

"... rumors that the iPhone 15 Pro Max will be equipped with a periscope telephoto lens that boosts the device's optical zoom capabilities. Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo previously said the lens will allow for up to 5x or 6x optical zoom, compared to the current 3x limit on the iPhone 14 Pro models."

I continue to think that the traditional camera makers' biggest rivals are the high end smartphones (ie not just iPhones), and the advent of multiple lenses.
 
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Jethro

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The R/RP don't seem to be well rounded cameras but were/are surprisingly cheap vs 5Div and 6Dii. They seemed to be rushed to market and the only real "innovation" being the touch bar whereas the R5/6 were Canon's bold step into the segment a couple of year later.

Maybe the Digic X development was problematic causing the delay.
I see the latest R5 II rumour includes a new moniker being 'DIGIC X2s'. Unclear whether it's even true, or just an internal naming convention, but I suspect Canon may wish to emphasise that there is a new generation chip being included, otherwise the unwary (ie like me!) will take one look at the Digic X name, and assume incorrectly it's been the same with no development over a period of years.
 
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MacRumors is saying that the headline announcement at next week's Apple Event will be around the iPhone 15, and in particular the high-end version's photo/video specs - so this could be a real thing:

"... rumors that the iPhone 15 Pro Max will be equipped with a periscope telephoto lens that boosts the device's optical zoom capabilities. Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo previously said the lens will allow for up to 5x or 6x optical zoom, compared to the current 3x limit on the iPhone 14 Pro models."

I continue to think that the traditional camera makers' biggest rivals are the high end smartphones (ie not just iPhones), and the advent of multiple lenses.
Yes, that rumour is for the telephoto lens but the one I was referring to is
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-i...est-leap-in-photos-since-b-w-to-color-report/
"As a result, there was immediate speculation that Apple could potentially integrate similar 3D capturing technology into the future camera system of the iPhone, since it already uses LiDAR for depth sensing and does 3D scanning for features such as Face ID."
This is mostly around using Vision Pro which is a separate discussion.
 
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I see the latest R5 II rumour includes a new moniker being 'DIGIC X2s'. Unclear whether it's even true, or just an internal naming convention, but I suspect Canon may wish to emphasise that there is a new generation chip being included, otherwise the unwary (ie like me!) will take one look at the Digic X name, and assume incorrectly it's been the same with no development over a period of years.
The biggest improvement I suspect is using a smaller processor linewidth. Improvements in power consumption and efficiency are some of the benefits - both of which Canon is behind Sony on - at least using CIPA.
CIPA being the only directly comparable measurements between bodies even if the measures are not real-world usage for most.
 
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Jethro

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Yes, that rumour is for the telephoto lens but the one I was referring to is
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-i...est-leap-in-photos-since-b-w-to-color-report/
"As a result, there was immediate speculation that Apple could potentially integrate similar 3D capturing technology into the future camera system of the iPhone, since it already uses LiDAR for depth sensing and does 3D scanning for features such as Face ID."
This is mostly around using Vision Pro which is a separate discussion.
I see why you referred to next year's iPhone 16 now! Yes, I was thinking when I saw your earlier post that the software development going into VisionPro was likely to be behind that - being Apple they will want to interconnect their devices, and with such a camera-rich (and dependent) device as VisionPro, linking to an advanced, external camera like in the high-end iPhones seems like a natural thing to do.
 
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I think that it is/was fair to say that Canon was late to FF mirrorless. Of course their EF-M system was in place for a long time but Sony was the dominant FF mirrorless OEM for some time.
I disagree.

late /lāt/ adjective
(1) coming or remaining after the due, usual, or proper time
(2) of, relating to, or imposed because of tardiness

‘Late’ means after they should have, and the market data do not support that contention.

Consider the MILC timeline…
  • 2008
    • Panasonic launches LUMIX (m4/3 sensor)
  • 2009
    • Olympus launches PEN (m4/3 sensor)
  • 2010
    • Samsung launches NX (APS-C sensor)
    • Sony launches NEX (APS-C sensor)
  • 2011
    • Nikon launches 1 (1” sensor)
  • 2012
    • Canon launches EOS M (APS-C sensor)
    • Sony launches alpha (FF sensor)
    • CIPA begins tracking MILCs and DSLRs separately
  • 2017
    • Canon M series becomes best-selling MILC line
  • 2018
    • Canon launches EOS R (FF sensor)
    • Nikon launches Z6/7 (FF sensor)
  • 2019
    • Nikon launches Z50 (APS-C sensor)
  • 2020
    • Total MILC shipments first exceed total DSLR shipments (CIPA data)
  • 2022
    • Canon takes #1 mirrorless title from Sony
Canon was the #1 ILC brand, and more importantly they were the dominant DSLR brand. Why prioritize mirrorless when DLSRs remained far more popular? As DSLR sales dropped, Canon grew to have the most popular APS-C line, and they shifted emphasis to FF MILCs when it was clear the downward trend of DSLR sales would cross the flat line of MILC sales.

Two years after MILCs became more popular than DSLRs, Canon became the #1 MILC brand. All the while, they maintained a stable dominance of the ILC market as a whole.

While I don’t believe mirrorless is a paradigm shift (unlike, for example, film to digital), it is a significant transition for the camera industry, and one occurring against the even more significant backdrop of the rise of smartphones driving camera sales down hard. For Canon to lead with ~45% of the ILC market (±3%) at its peak early last decade, and to still have that same commanding lead through the dramatic drop in camera sales (nearly 90%) and the transition from DSLR to MILC, speaks to a very well designed and executed strategy. Not to being late.

To paraphrase Orson Wells advertising a volume wine producer’s product, “We will sell no MILCs before their time.” Better yet, to paraphrase one of the Maiar who was fond of wearing a gray, pointy hat, “Canon is never late, nor are they early, they arrive precisely when they mean to.”
 
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Embarrassed because it was a best-selling lens for decades, and with the amortized development costs long recouped it was a very profitable lens?

No, I don’t think so. The phrase, ‘Laughing all the way to the bank’ comes to mind.
With the EF 50mm 1.4 so popular and profitable, why do you think they haven't released and RF version yet. I would think it would sell just as well as the EF version. Why are they draging their feet?
 
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I disagree
and you are allowed to :cool:
2012
  • Canon launches EOS M (APS-C sensor)
  • Sony launches alpha (FF sensor)
  • 2018
    • Canon launches EOS R (FF sensor)
    • Nikon launches Z6/7 (FF sensor)
  • 2019
    • Nikon launches Z50 (APS-C sensor)
In the FF mirrorless segment (which was all that I was referring to as Canon was certainly already in mirrorless from 2012/M ecosystem), Sony had it basically to themselves for 6 years.

Canon was the #1 ILC brand, and more importantly they were the dominant DSLR brand. Why prioritize mirrorless when DLSRs remained far more popular? As DSLR sales dropped, Canon grew to have the most popular APS-C line, and they shifted emphasis to FF MILCs when it was clear the downward trend of DSLR sales would cross the flat line of MILC sales.
I didn't say that Canon had to compete in the ff mirrorless segment but they were "late" compared to Sony in that segment. Canon made a commercial decision not to enter within that 6 year period. The R/RP appeared to be rushed ie rebadged versions of the 5Div/6Dii rather than the build-from-scratch R5/6. Maybe the R/RP were the original plan or maybe there was another factor delaying Canon's entry there. Maybe Canon considered that EVFs weren't good enough at the time for FF users to switch. The new LP battery capacity was also needed.

While I don’t believe mirrorless is a paradigm shift (unlike, for example, film to digital), it is a significant transition for the camera industry, and one occurring against the even more significant backdrop of the rise of smartphones driving camera sales down hard.
I agree that it wouldn't be a paradigm shift as live view (using the rear screen) was essentially the same. The disruption was due to the rise of camera phones at a cheap level and sharing ability that dedicated cameras couldn't match. The main difference for R mount was redesign of lenses for mirrorless bodies - and a bit of body weight loss/size and increased power consumption.
For Canon to lead with ~45% of the ILC market (±3%) at its peak early last decade, and to still have that same commanding lead through the dramatic drop in camera sales (nearly 90%) and the transition from DSLR to MILC, speaks to a very well designed and executed strategy. Not to being late.
Canon are in good shape based on market share, profitability and R body range given the rapid product shift over the last 5 years. I believe that Canon (and particularly Nikon) lost a reasonable number of customers who went to Sony that maybe would have stayed if Canon has a competitive product but they haven't materially imapcted the overall financial figures.
 
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mxwphoto

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But still a very nice shot.
I concur. The thing that determines a nice shot is rarely the ultra hair raising sharpness of the new designer lenses. In the age of influencer reviewers and test charts etc etc I think we have placed technique and skill on the back burner and hyperfocused on lens' performance. They get sponsored and paid by the camera companies, after all.

I don't believe Canon will release middle of the pack 1.4 lenses as they want you to buy the cheap one first, then get the itch because it eventually does not satisfy all your needs, and then spend big bucks on the L lens. A 1.4 non-L lens would likely hurt L sales with the good enough factor. And if it is not good enough, the lens would get panned because the 1.8 is SO much better bang for the buck.
 
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I concur. The thing that determines a nice shot is rarely the ultra hair raising sharpness of the new designer lenses. In the age of influencer reviewers and test charts etc etc I think we have placed technique and skill on the back burner and hyperfocused on lens' performance. They get sponsored and paid by the camera companies, after all.

I don't believe Canon will release middle of the pack 1.4 lenses as they want you to buy the cheap one first, then get the itch because it eventually does not satisfy all your needs, and then spend big bucks on the L lens. A 1.4 non-L lens would likely hurt L sales with the good enough factor. And if it is not good enough, the lens would get panned because the 1.8 is SO much better bang for the buck.
That does make a lot of sense.
Make an entry lens and a top-end lens and then build a bridge lens between the two.
The ultimate goal is to sell the top-end lens.
 
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I didn't say that Canon had to compete in the ff mirrorless segment but they were "late" compared to Sony in that segment.
Maybe it's a semantic thing. Later has a different connotation than late. If the event starts at noon and you arrive at 11:00a while I arrive at 11:30a, I was later than you, but neither of us was 'late'.

I believe that Canon (and particularly Nikon) lost a reasonable number of customers who went to Sony that maybe would have stayed if Canon has a competitive product but they haven't materially imapcted the overall financial figures.
You can choose to believe that. However, the data showing that Canon's market share remained essentially stable, while Sony made substantial gains and Nikon suffered substantial losses, contravene that belief.
 
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With the EF 50mm 1.4 so popular and profitable, why do you think they haven't released and RF version yet. I would think it would sell just as well as the EF version. Why are they draging their feet?
I have no idea, but I'm sure there's a good business case for it. Could be that the EF 50/1.4 still sells well enough. Could be that their data suggest giving buyers a choice between an inexpensive lens and an expensive lens is more profitable overall than offering a mid-level option (that does seem to be their general strategy). Could be that they plan to make an RF 50/1.4 but they've prioritized other lenses. Could be they just really don't like @ahsanford and their corporate strategy is intended to make him suffer.
 
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CIPA being the only directly comparable measurements between bodies even if the measures are not real-world usage for most.
CIPA is - at least for my uses - pretty useless. The R3 is rated at 860 shots/battery charge (in "power saving" mode), but I've gotten 4000 shots on an LP-E19 battery as I tend to chimp very little and shoot bursts (action).

The problem with CIPA is that it defines a single and very specific order of events: take picture (w/wo flash), chimp, turn on/off, etc. It's like measuring the the mileage of a car on a very specific road, but you don't drive that road at all.
 
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With the EF 50mm 1.4 so popular and profitable, why do you think they haven't released and RF version yet. I would think it would sell just as well as the EF version. Why are they draging their feet?
You make money on the high end side and you make money on the entry level.
Both are well addressed by RF lenses.
In the middle the is not too much money to be made.
 
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mxwphoto

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CIPA is - at least for my uses - pretty useless. The R3 is rated at 860 shots/battery charge (in "power saving" mode), but I've gotten 4000 shots on an LP-E19 battery as I tend to chimp very little and shoot bursts (action).

The problem with CIPA is that it defines a single and very specific order of events: take picture (w/wo flash), chimp, turn on/off, etc. It's like measuring the the mileage of a car on a very specific road, but you don't drive that road at all.
I find that CIPA is very much like Miles Per Gallon rating on cars. It does not reflect how you shoot/drive, but the metric is useful for determining the efficiency of the camera/car relative to the rest of the competition.
 
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