Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market - Share your thoughts

[Coolhandchuck]

Sabaki, which Zeiss lenses are you curious about? A lot of people are excited by the Otus lenses. But at $4k+ you'd expect them to be good. I'm sure if Canon wanted to sell a $4k 50mm lens, it would pretty good too. Whether anybody would buy it is another question.

My photography partner uses the 85 1.2 and compared to my Milvus 85 1.4, it's not even close. The Canon is not even in the same category when it comes to shooting wide open, sharpness, contrast or color rendition and the canon cost more. "Oh, but the canon has autofocus", give me a break... be a photographer and learn to take a picture without the computer doing everything for you. My Zeiss is as sharp as the canon when I slightly miss the focus and completely obliterates it when I do. "Legendary 85 1.2" my butt, more like "you got swept up by the hype".

 

[retroreflection]

Canon (and others) lag behind by having no cell phones in their portfolio.

However, I am at a loss as to why you expect such an in-depth analysis. Are you pondering an investment in the photography industry (I advise against that)? Are you pondering the stability of Canon's product support long-term? Or, are you in the habit of pondering the inadequacies of others?

Unless one gets a significant job at a camera manufacturer, the perfection of photography equipment's technical capability is an utterly sealed fortress. One can only buy the best of the available products, hopefully staying within one's budget (and understanding that manufacturers have budgets, too).

Then there is the infinite space of learning to use those tools within their technical capabilities.

 

[Labdoc]

Canon is doing just fine and will continue to have market share in the future. Competition will keep them on their toes. I think eventually they might get rid of the mirror as soon as the EVF and other logistics get sorted out. The mechanical mirror works but the world tends to go towards solid state and all the benefits of getting rid of moving parts. Having said that, many people, including myself don't care about what goes on in the camera as long as the pictures are good.

One thing they could do would be to share upgrades in operating systems throughout the line. The 80D has 2 custom modes and re-programmable buttons but doesn't have the choices that the new 5D has with respect to back button focus. This is software issue and could bring new features to the whole line. To me it's different than a hardware difference that sets the different lines apart with respect to cost and would only make Canon more competitive all across the board.

 

[Michael Clark]

50mm and 85mm lenses.

Canon were always said to be bought for their superior lenses but now, two of the most important key lenses for photography are surpassed by other manufacturers. Leaving the Canon 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.2 L two over-priced and low quality lenses. (This is in relation to Sigma ART lenses and Sony Batis lenses, etc)

It depends on whether you desire a 50mm or 85mm lens that demonstrates field curvature or a 50/85mm lens with a flat field. Of course a lens with intentionally uncorrected field curvature (Hint: Both the EF 50mm f/1.2 L and the EF 85mm f/1.2 L) will score lower on any resolution test that measures acutance from center to edge based on a flat test target. Especially if it weights the acutance at the edge equally with the acutance at the center! But you can't replicate the look a lens with field curvature gives you in the real world using a flat field lens.

 

[Hector1970]

Personally owning and using extensively the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 , I'd consider both of them to be excellent lens.
They may well be overpriced .
I've no idea about the Sigma Art lens, they could be better but that doesn't change how good the Canon lens are.
If you can't take good photos with the Canon lens , give up. It's you not the equipment .
I'm not convinced that even half the people who comment on lens even own them.
Go and take some photographs and then express your opinion.
You never see graphical proof.
Where does Canon lag behind?
It's hard to tell with Canon, each camera holds things back.
They level every so often with sensors but not ahead.
They are slow to add electronic features (wifi, GPS etc) but do eventually.
The go for a great overall package that works.
The lens range is superb if you have deep pockets

What would I like them to do
A) Medium format camera and lens (mirror less )
B) mirror less Full Frame
C) Better dynamic range ability
D) Better ISO performance
E) Flippy screens like the G12

 

[rrcphoto]

Where does Canon fall behind the competition?

Can we make a list of that, that's completely objective and is neither fanboyish nor Sony-is-king-ish?

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

-24mp class leading sensor vs the old 550D 18mp sensor with immensely lower image quality.

-Little known fact, the 24mp sensor in the D3400 up to D7200 produces very sharp HD video with no aliasing and moire. While the 1300D has moire and aliasing and softness.

-Snapbridge blutooth connectivity is very fast and very appealing to today's teen/social media oriented market.

-The 1300D has the lowest screen resolution in the current world of SLRs.

-The 1300D comes with the old 18-55mm non-STM lens while the Nikon comes with the newest STM like model.

-The 1300D is 3fps vs 5fps

-Aside from poor video, tops at 1080p 30p while d3400 does sharp 1080p 60p.

-Much lower end AF system

let me know when you start.

TL;DR .. btw. good grief.

complaining about the 1300D which will go down to around 299 or less for the KIT in it's lifecyle .. are you for real? the 1300D will end up around 1/2 the price as it's lifecycle progresses if the T5 versus D3300 is any indication.

this cameras are competing on price, not necessarily on features.

 

[romanr74]

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

What do you have to add?

I'll add that Nikon's 'MUCH more compelling camera' costs $150 more right now on Amazon (body + 18-55), that's 30% more expensive. That is probably one of the reasons the D3400 which you call 'MUCH more compelling' is #81 in Amazon's DSLR sales ranking, while the T6 which you call a 'poorly featured failure' is #20 on that list. So it would seem that from the perspective of both buyers and Canon, the T6 is rather successful.

Incidentally, another Canon 'failure', the 50/1.4, outsells the much cheaper Nikon 50/1.8 and far outsells the Nikon 50/1.4 on Amazon. So when people wonder why Canon hasn't updated this aging lens, there's your reason – it remains very popular.

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

 

[neuroanatomist]

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

The usual crap spouted by those with the business acumen of a bowling ball, who can't seem to grasp that aggregate purchasing decisions – i.e., unit sales – are a major factor in a manufacturer's decisions about what features to include and what products to design and produce.

 

[Mikehit]

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

What do you have to add?

I'll add that Nikon's 'MUCH more compelling camera' costs $150 more right now on Amazon (body + 18-55), that's 30% more expensive. That is probably one of the reasons the D3400 which you call 'MUCH more compelling' is #81 in Amazon's DSLR sales ranking, while the T6 which you call a 'poorly featured failure' is #20 on that list. So it would seem that from the perspective of both buyers and Canon, the T6 is rather successful.

Incidentally, another Canon 'failure', the 50/1.4, outsells the much cheaper Nikon 50/1.8 and far outsells the Nikon 50/1.4 on Amazon. So when people wonder why Canon hasn't updated this aging lens, there's your reason – it remains very popular.

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

Before working out what the problem is, you need to define whether there is a problem at all. So when Nikon have features that Canon doesn't, and Canon still outsell them then...what is the problem again? Why are you not asking the reverse question: that is, why are Nikon producing 'superior' products and still not #1? If you want fair market competition to keep Canon on the ball, keeping Nikon in the game is essential so you have to answer that question as well.
Any ideas?

 

[romanr74]

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

The usual crap spouted by those with the business acumen of a bowling ball, who can't seem to grasp that aggregate purchasing decisions – i.e., unit sales – are a major factor in a manufacturer's decisions about what features to include and what products to design and produce.

yawn...

 

[romanr74]

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

What do you have to add?

I'll add that Nikon's 'MUCH more compelling camera' costs $150 more right now on Amazon (body + 18-55), that's 30% more expensive. That is probably one of the reasons the D3400 which you call 'MUCH more compelling' is #81 in Amazon's DSLR sales ranking, while the T6 which you call a 'poorly featured failure' is #20 on that list. So it would seem that from the perspective of both buyers and Canon, the T6 is rather successful.

Incidentally, another Canon 'failure', the 50/1.4, outsells the much cheaper Nikon 50/1.8 and far outsells the Nikon 50/1.4 on Amazon. So when people wonder why Canon hasn't updated this aging lens, there's your reason – it remains very popular.

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

Before working out what the problem is, you need to define whether there is a problem at all. So when Nikon have features that Canon doesn't, and Canon still outsell them then...what is the problem again? Why are you not asking the reverse question: that is, why are Nikon producing 'superior' products and still not #1? If you want fair market competition to keep Canon on the ball, keeping Nikon in the game is essential so you have to answer that question as well.
Any ideas?

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

 

[gsealy]

Sabaki, which Zeiss lenses are you curious about? A lot of people are excited by the Otus lenses. But at $4k+ you'd expect them to be good. I'm sure if Canon wanted to sell a $4k 50mm lens, it would pretty good too. Whether anybody would buy it is another question.

My photography partner uses the 85 1.2 and compared to my Milvus 85 1.4, it's not even close. The Canon is not even in the same category when it comes to shooting wide open, sharpness, contrast or color rendition and the canon cost more. "Oh, but the canon has autofocus", give me a break... be a photographer and learn to take a picture without the computer doing everything for you. My Zeiss is as sharp as the canon when I slightly miss the focus and completely obliterates it when I do. "Legendary 85 1.2" my butt, more like "you got swept up by the hype".

I have the Milvus 85 1.4. Awesome, and at $1700 it is well worth the money. I agree with your thoughts about it.

 

[gsealy]

The 5dIV is underwhelming and it not worth an upgrade from a 5DIII. It is not state of the art. The GH5 coming out is going to be a better video camera at about $1500 less. There is other competition too: the Fuji X-T2 and successors to the Sony A7RII and A7SII. Canon messed up here given that the 5dIV is brand new and is expected to be around for 3 years of so. I expect Fuji will even improve the X-T2 very shortly so that it has improved video specs.

 

[Sporgon]

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

What do you have to add?

I'll add that Nikon's 'MUCH more compelling camera' costs $150 more right now on Amazon (body + 18-55), that's 30% more expensive. That is probably one of the reasons the D3400 which you call 'MUCH more compelling' is #81 in Amazon's DSLR sales ranking, while the T6 which you call a 'poorly featured failure' is #20 on that list. So it would seem that from the perspective of both buyers and Canon, the T6 is rather successful.

Incidentally, another Canon 'failure', the 50/1.4, outsells the much cheaper Nikon 50/1.8 and far outsells the Nikon 50/1.4 on Amazon. So when people wonder why Canon hasn't updated this aging lens, there's your reason – it remains very popular.

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

Before working out what the problem is, you need to define whether there is a problem at all. So when Nikon have features that Canon doesn't, and Canon still outsell them then...what is the problem again? Why are you not asking the reverse question: that is, why are Nikon producing 'superior' products and still not #1? If you want fair market competition to keep Canon on the ball, keeping Nikon in the game is essential so you have to answer that question as well.
Any ideas?

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

It's not being simple-minded. Surely if a company provides what (the majority of) people want at a cheaper price point than the opposition, then that is being ahead ?

 

[romanr74]

I'll start with the very low end failure:

-Canon's cheapest DSLR is very poorly featured compared to Nikon's and Sony's and practically everything else.

It's the 1300D. Nikon makes a MUCH more compelling camera to draw the first SLR buyer. Their Nikon D3400 has:

What do you have to add?

I'll add that Nikon's 'MUCH more compelling camera' costs $150 more right now on Amazon (body + 18-55), that's 30% more expensive. That is probably one of the reasons the D3400 which you call 'MUCH more compelling' is #81 in Amazon's DSLR sales ranking, while the T6 which you call a 'poorly featured failure' is #20 on that list. So it would seem that from the perspective of both buyers and Canon, the T6 is rather successful.

Incidentally, another Canon 'failure', the 50/1.4, outsells the much cheaper Nikon 50/1.8 and far outsells the Nikon 50/1.4 on Amazon. So when people wonder why Canon hasn't updated this aging lens, there's your reason – it remains very popular.

the usual fanboy sales numbers bullS___...

Before working out what the problem is, you need to define whether there is a problem at all. So when Nikon have features that Canon doesn't, and Canon still outsell them then...what is the problem again? Why are you not asking the reverse question: that is, why are Nikon producing 'superior' products and still not #1? If you want fair market competition to keep Canon on the ball, keeping Nikon in the game is essential so you have to answer that question as well.
Any ideas?

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

It's not being simple-minded. Surely if a company provides what (the majority of) people want at a cheaper price point than the opposition, then that is being ahead ?

Yes it is simple minded. It is switching ones brain off and trusting that the masses will be right...

 

[neuroanatomist]

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

Evidently some of us are such simpletons that we can undestand our own needs and wants for camera gear, while simultaneously putting those needs into the larger context of the reality that we aren't making gear for ourselves, we depend on corporations to make it for us, and those corporations make decisions based on factors outside of our personal control.

But some of us live in our own little world where our own desires trump objective reality. Interestingly, that latter situation is one definition of insanity.

 

[romanr74]

Re: Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

Evidently some of us are such simpletons that we can undestand our own needs and wants for camera gear, while simultaneously putting those needs into the larger context of the reality that we aren't making gear for ourselves, we depend on corporations to make it for us, and those corporations make decisions based on factors outside of our personal control.

But some of us live in our own little world where our own desires trump objective reality. Interestingly, that latter situation is one definition of insanity.

Sweet... That was it with words of wisdom for today?

 

[Harv]

I suspect the folks at Canon know a lot more about how to provide return on investment to the shareholders than the OP, while keeping the customer well satisfied. If that was not the case, Canon would not have the market share they do. Period.

By the way, if the OP feels Canon is shortchanging him, he has the option of using products from Nikon, Fuji, Sony etc..

P.S. I still don't understand the purpose of this thread being started in the first place.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

Evidently some of us are such simpletons that we can undestand our own needs and wants for camera gear, while simultaneously putting those needs into the larger context of the reality that we aren't making gear for ourselves, we depend on corporations to make it for us, and those corporations make decisions based on factors outside of our personal control.

But some of us live in our own little world where our own desires trump objective reality. Interestingly, that latter situation is one definition of insanity.

Sweet... That was it with words of wisdom for today?

Well, for anyone unable to grasp this simple fact, well-stated by Harv:

I suspect the folks at Canon know a lot more about how to provide return on investment to the shareholders than the OP, while keeping the customer well satisfied. If that was not the case, Canon would not have the market share they do. Period.

...those words of wisdom are falling on deaf ears. Or more properly put, an uncomprehending mind.

 

[romanr74]

Re: Analyzing where Canon lags behind in the market

If for you guys it is satisfactory to know that Canon is selling the most units, for you to justify to yourself to stick to Canon, this is wonderful for you... Apparently not everybody is such a simple mind...

Evidently some of us are such simpletons that we can undestand our own needs and wants for camera gear, while simultaneously putting those needs into the larger context of the reality that we aren't making gear for ourselves, we depend on corporations to make it for us, and those corporations make decisions based on factors outside of our personal control.

But some of us live in our own little world where our own desires trump objective reality. Interestingly, that latter situation is one definition of insanity.

Sweet... That was it with words of wisdom for today?

Well, for anyone unable to grasp this simple fact, well-stated by Harv:

I suspect the folks at Canon know a lot more about how to provide return on investment to the shareholders than the OP, while keeping the customer well satisfied. If that was not the case, Canon would not have the market share they do. Period.

...those words of wisdom are falling on deaf ears. Or more properly put, an uncomprehending mind.

You're getting ever more credible as a discerning customer, my dear lemming. Canon is very happy to have you guys...