Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Well, sort of... Yes, the DR of the downsampled 6DII image will be higher, but downsampling doesn't change the DR when the image is captured. IMO, it's the latter that matters – if you have a 13-stop scene, and 12 stops of DR, you've clipped one or both sides. If you then downsample that image until you have 13 stops of DR, you don't get back what you clipped at capture.

It seems intuitive but, well, no, that's not exactly correct and has been pointed out by more technically savvy posters in the past.
Noise-dithered data-acquisition that is downsampled can actually record up to one extra bit of information. Specific dither signals and processing could increase that amount.

(just) clipped + noise = not always clipped and extra signal information can be extracted.
more applicable at the low end than the high in photographic applications

YMMV depending on how clipped, particular dither signal (noise), and amount of downsampling done in post processing.

I'm well aware of the theory. Which RAW converter do I use for that process? Does the RAW software from ABC have CSI's enhance button? :

Guess what? I can also reduce sensor noise with Peltier cooling. Which ILC has that feature? Sony? ABC?

There are some technically savvy people on this forum, some are more practical, some skilled, some artistic, and some with various combinations of those attributes...and there's you.

 

[Point22]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

 

[dcm]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

Yes, not exactly a Canon issue as a Tamron issue for faking the camera into thinking it has a different lens on it. How exactly is that Canon's fault, Point22?

 

[Point22]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

As you write ( 5D4 + Art too )

 

[Point22]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

Yes, not exactly a Canon issue as a Tamron issue for faking the camera into thinking it has a different lens on it. How exactly is that Canon's fault, Point22?

camera knows he is there. 85 tamron and not canon glass or?

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

Yes, not exactly a Canon issue as a Tamron issue for faking the camera into thinking it has a different lens on it. How exactly is that Canon's fault, Point22?

camera knows he is there. 85 tamron and not canon glass or?

Can't you just shoot in RAW and generate your jpgs with lightroom or DPP?

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Similar to the 1DX2 - I think it was related to peripheral illumination corrections with non-Canon Lenses. Solution is to turn it off.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29352.msg595767#msg595767

Yes, not exactly a Canon issue as a Tamron issue for faking the camera into thinking it has a different lens on it. How exactly is that Canon's fault, Point22?

camera knows he is there. 85 tamron and not canon glass or?

No the communication is not single leveled and Tamron do not collaborate or buy registration codes from Canon, Zeiss do.

The Tamron spoofs a specific Canon lens code to the camera, not the name, the camera applies corrections to the image as would be appropriate for the lens it believes, and is being told, is mounted. It is a Tamron issue not a Canon one.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Perhaps the camera needs a wetware update.

 

[snoke]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

How are you opening files in Raw? I can't seem to open them unless I first convert to a tiff.

Use Adobe DNG Converter.

 

[Point22]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

First issue 6D2 need firmware update

6D mark ii + Tamron SP 85 f1.8 VC USD

Perhaps the camera needs a wetware update.

Yeah maybe

 

[Aglet]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Well, sort of... Yes, the DR of the downsampled 6DII image will be higher, but downsampling doesn't change the DR when the image is captured. IMO, it's the latter that matters – if you have a 13-stop scene, and 12 stops of DR, you've clipped one or both sides. If you then downsample that image until you have 13 stops of DR, you don't get back what you clipped at capture.

It seems intuitive but, well, no, that's not exactly correct and has been pointed out by more technically savvy posters in the past.
Noise-dithered data-acquisition that is downsampled can actually record up to one extra bit of information. Specific dither signals and processing could increase that amount.

(just) clipped + noise = not always clipped and extra signal information can be extracted.
more applicable at the low end than the high in photographic applications

YMMV depending on how clipped, particular dither signal (noise), and amount of downsampling done in post processing.

This has been debated ad nauseam, trouble is whilst you might be technically correct nobody has ever posted a Stouffer wedge actually illustrating the concept. The theory breaks down either because of the relatively limited downsample and/or the difference in the noise floor, might technically be there, the differences aren't observable in regular sized images viewed at regular distances.

I'd love somebody to actually post some visual proof of the theory, but nobody ever has.

yes, while technically feasible I haven't seen it done in a photographic way either, not counting what DxOmark does to achieve their "print" number... I'd like to SEE that result too.
It's far simpler to demonstrate in a one-dimensional data array.

If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. a 25% linear scaling should be adequate to demonstrate an effect and shooting it with a Canon camera, cuz the dithering noise is already built-in; it's just an under-utilized feature of the system.
Over-sampling the source data helps too... so shoot 4 or more shots, scale, then average them. but I'd rather see it demo'd w-o mutliple exposures being used, just the down-sampling by scaling and some careful NR applied.

I don't think ABC cameras have enough low ISO noise to do this trick as effectively. And Canon cameras with FPN won't work very well either as the FPN would get reinforced at some scaling ratios.

 

[Aglet]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'm well aware of the theory. Which RAW converter do I use for that process? Does the RAW software from ABC have CSI's enhance button? :

well, you should be able to figure that out, shouldn't you, Dr. Brainiac?
12 or 14 bit raw file, work it in a 16 (or more) bit space.
Downscale, filter, done.
So... ACR & PS or pretty much anything working in 16bit or more per channel should do just fine.
Duh! : It's not neuro-science! LOL

Guess what? I can also reduce sensor noise with Peltier cooling. Which ILC has that feature? Sony? ABC?

Maybe you should sit on a peltier cooler, it might reduce the fixed pattern noise out of you as well. ;D

There are some technically savvy people on this forum, some are more practical, some skilled, some artistic, and some with various combinations of those attributes...and there's you.

...yes... all of the above. Good looks, humor and personality too.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Maybe you should sit on a peltier cooler, it might reduce the fixed pattern noise out of you as well. ;D

There are some technically savvy people on this forum, some are more practical, some skilled, some artistic, and some with various combinations of those attributes...and there's you.

...yes... all of the above. Good looks, humor and personality too.

Humor and personality? Yes, that's what you showed right there.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

...yes... all of the above. Good looks, humor and personality too.

Yes, but to be a typical photographer, you should be using the most common camera and take pictures of the most popular subject.... And Canon is doomed if they don't compete with the iPhone, and doubly doomed without adding "cat mode" to the dial beside the green box.....

 

[jmoya]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

How are you opening files in Raw? I can't seem to open them unless I first convert to a tiff.

Use Adobe DNG Converter.

Thanks. I upgraded to the new Lightroom 6.12 and can now open the files.

 

[bclaff]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....

Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards

 

[Point22]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

...If anyone has a Stouffer wedge it would be interesting to see the test done. ....

Many years ago when I was developing the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) test I used Stouffer wedges.
I'll try to drag one out and do a test but ...
I can assure you that the test target I developed for PDR produces equivalent results.
(I devised it because I could not depend on my contributors to have a Stouffer wedge.)
The PDR target has 77 "magenta" patches.
This color is chosen to make the red, green, and blue channels more equally exposed.
Since the channels are processed separately the fact that it is not "gray" is not material.

Regards

Now I would like the answer.. Mr bclaff is this 11,8DR or 8-9 PDR ?? Thx

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

not bad at all for a "low DR" sensor except for the noticeable horisontal banding in shadow areas.

 

[x-vision]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Now I would like the answer..

Look at all the noise on the plastic container in the middle of the photo. Or on the TV screen.

This noise is the reason why the 6DII dynamic range measures lower than the 5DIV, for example.

Apply some noise reduction to see how this noise cleans up.
The 6DII's noise is reported to be more random than that of the 5DIII and original 6D.
So, it should clean up better.