The next EOS R system camera gets a mention again [CR1]

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
Funny how no matter what is rumoured as the next Canon camera, a tonne of people moan that it's wrong, it's not what they should be doing, that THEIR needs should be met first :rolleyes: You know, things are allowed to exist that you don't personally want?
Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others.

I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.

Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
467
438
Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others.

I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.

Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.
Your opinion, but not mine.
I'm waiting for a hi-resolution EOS R, for macro, landscapes and vintage lenses.
Are you sure to know what the market wants, and not just turning your wishes into an invented reality????
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
Your opinion, but not mine.
I'm waiting for a hi-resolution EOS R, for macro, landscapes and vintage lenses.
Are you sure to know what the market wants, and not just turning your wishes into an invented reality????
Don't take my words for it. Look at all the other peoples are saying previously and what Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony FF camera has produce thus far. It's all under 50 mpx. They have more market data than me.

I'm sure there are few photographers that want a high mpx camera, but it's a specialist camera.

Who isn't a landscape photographers nowaday. I can't imagine bracketing 70 mpx images. If I shoot macro, I prefer focus bracketing more.

But you are right. It's only my opinion. I never claim it's yours whoever you are.
 
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uri.raz

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2016
127
66
But I tend to like the size of the CF cards better for handling, plus the contacts not being as exposed and fragile as the SD cards.
I had a CF pin bent in my 5Dmk3, had to be sent to a lab for fixes. Had pins bent in a CF 'thumb reader', eventually threw it. Never had any issues with the "fragile" contacts of SD cards.

I'd rather have dual UHS-II slots over CF.
 
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BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,056
297
Everyone has an opinion and I have no problem with others expressing it. It's a discussion board. Mine isn't more valid than others.

I understand their frustration. Most of photographers would never need more than 24-30 mpx. I print huge print often and I never wish I have more mpx or crop more. It add more storage problem, disrupt workflow, and not catering to the mass.

Of course things are allow to exist, but Canon should prioritize it according to what market demand and have this high mpx come out later when 1DX, 5D equivalent model are done.
It isn't just about marketing. It is also a question of which camera specs fit with a mirrorless design at this point in mirrorless development. Part of the question is whether a mirrorless design can match or exceed 1D or 5D autofocus capabilities, or whether that is going to take a while to happen. Then there is also the question of lens availability. A wide range of available lenses may be more important for the admittedly larger1D and 5D markets.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
It isn't just about marketing. It is also a question of which camera specs fit with a mirrorless design at this point in mirrorless development. Part of the question is whether a mirrorless design can match or exceed 1D or 5D autofocus capabilities, or whether that is going to take a while to happen. Then there is also the question of lens availability. A wide range of available lenses may be more important for the admittedly larger1D and 5D markets.
Canon is stated to release the trinity lenses 2.8 later this year, 2-3 85 1.2 along with great adapters they already has that perform great with EF lenses. That's more than enough for most photographers need.

Beside the eyeAF that need improvement, the AF is as good or better than my 5D IV just slower FPS.

Canon has all the tech and lenses needed for 5D equivalent model 30-40 mpx, but they choose to wait to release that model because such a thing would cannibalize their DSLR sales.

They want a slow and graduate death to DSLR that's why they kept saying EOS R is a back up. If they put dual card slot into EOS R at $2300, it would completely kill out 5D IV sales that's going for similar price without alot of the benefits of EOS R (articulate LCD, EVF, eyeAF, etc).
 
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epiieq1

EOS 5D III, 1DX
Aug 9, 2013
33
17
I honestly just want a dev announcement of some sort. I know why they don't (so a rival can't one-up) but I'm hitting the point of needing a new body. I'd really like to stay with Canon, but I'm also hitting the question of - why should I be brand loyal (other than cost to change)? The CPS Platinum loaner program cost me so much in shipping that I would've been better off going with BorrowLenses or Lens Rentals for the same duration. I Just want to know that it's worth waiting because I don't feel the 5D4 and EOS R are worth upgrading to with what's supposed to be the big release coming, and while I can play the waiting game, I'd rather know before wedding and portrait season hits if I should stick it out, or admit that Canon and I aren't as good a fit as we once were.
 
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uri.raz

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2016
127
66
Canon is stated to release the trinity lenses 2.8 later this year, 2-3 85 1.2 along with great adapters they already has that perform great with EF lenses. That's more than enough for most photographers need.
The trinity of f/2.8 zoom lenses would do it for me. The rest I would be happy to use with an adapter, until an RF version is released.

Canon has all the tech and lenses needed for 5D equivalent model 30-40 mpx, but they choose to wait to release that model because such a thing would cannibalize their DSLR sales.

They want a slow and graduate death to DSLR that's why they kept saying EOS R is a back up. If they put dual card slot into EOS R at $2300, it would completely kill out 5D IV sales that's going for similar price without alot of the benefits of EOS R (articulate LCD, EVF, eyeAF, etc).
Photographers with two bodies are, AFAIK, a minority. E.g. I have one 5D mark III camera, and have no interest in owning a 2nd camera.

Why would Canon prefer I upgrade to 5D mark V when it comes out, and switch to RF later on, rather then switch at the earliest availability of a dual slot EOS R + trinity zoom lenses?
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
The trinity of f/2.8 zoom lenses would do it for me. The rest I would be happy to use with an adapter, until an RF version is released.
For most people, it is. I agree. Canon adapters are fantastic and work perfectly with all my lenses.

Photographers with two bodies are, AFAIK, a minority. E.g. I have one 5D mark III camera, and have no interest in owning a 2nd camera.

Why would Canon prefer I upgrade to 5D mark V when it comes out, and switch to RF later on, rather then switch at the earliest availability of a dual slot EOS R + trinity zoom lenses?
To capture more sales.

Some people need dual card slots. They can buy 5D IV now when there are great sales and when the EOS R II/EOS 5R finally arrive next year, they can upgrade again.

OR they can buy EOS R now, and upgrade to EOS R II/EOS 5R when dual card slot with IBIS, newer sensor, etc version come out.
 

Normalnorm

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 25, 2012
502
105
I honestly just want a dev announcement of some sort. I know why they don't (so a rival can't one-up) but I'm hitting the point of needing a new body. I'd really like to stay with Canon, but I'm also hitting the question of - why should I be brand loyal (other than cost to change)? The CPS Platinum loaner program cost me so much in shipping that I would've been better off going with BorrowLenses or Lens Rentals for the same duration. I Just want to know that it's worth waiting because I don't feel the 5D4 and EOS R are worth upgrading to with what's supposed to be the big release coming, and while I can play the waiting game, I'd rather know before wedding and portrait season hits if I should stick it out, or admit that Canon and I aren't as good a fit as we once were.
Wedding season is almost upon us and changing systems at this moment would be a risky move.
I suggest transitioning to a new system the way they recommend retirees choose to re-locate: Rent.

Rent for a month or so and see if you like the neighborhood. Find out whether the hospitals are any good, the restaurants are the sort you like and the entertainment available is to your taste. Cameras are the same way. It takes time to decide if you are in love or were you just deceived by a particularly curvaceous specification and the shrill voice of operation makes you crazy.

IMO we often take the gifts of our current situation for granted and realize their strengths by their absence.
 

uri.raz

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2016
127
66
To capture more sales.

Some people need dual card slots. They can buy 5D IV now when there are great sales and when the EOS R II/EOS 5R finally arrive next year, they can upgrade again.
You assume there are enough people who would upgrade cameras every year.

Personally, I prefer to wait to buy either at 2020, as the RF lenses I want would be released sometime this year, then I want to wait for reviews and price to drop, which means till 2020. The Canon 5D mark V might be released on 2020, but a 5D class RF camera might not.

So I'd rather upgrade my EF 16-35mm f/2.8L mark II to mark III this year, and wait for 2020 to decide whether I want to switch to RF in 2020, or buy a 5DmkV and switch to RF a couple of years later.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
Personally, I prefer to wait to buy either at 2020, as the RF lenses I want would be released sometime this year, then I want to wait for reviews and price to drop, which means till 2020. The Canon 5D mark V might be released on 2020, but a 5D class RF camera might not.

So I'd rather upgrade my EF 16-35mm f/2.8L mark II to mark III this year, and wait for 2020 to decide whether I want to switch to RF in 2020, or buy a 5DmkV and switch to RF a couple of years later.
I agree. Waiting until 2020 is the best approach if you are waiting to upgrade to FF mirror less. There are certain tech that I prioritize will be more mature like the EVF. You will able to fully assess the competing offerings from body to lenses.

That's a good sensible approach to upgrade gears. It definitely come down to priority and personal preference.

While the Canon RF lenses are impressive, but none of it really appeal to me and they are expensive. I have no problem using third party lenses. I only use 70-200 2.8 II during the ceremony so being a little more compact while being much much more expensive isn't a great value to me.

I have no problem using adapted lenses or using third party native lenses that provide great value to me.

My current gears and lenses isn't what limiting my creativity. I'm only upgrading my camera body because it will make things much easier for me - eyeAF, IBIS (hand held up to 4 secs), EVF, no microAF adjustment.

I'm leaning toward a $2500 Panasonic S1 with free battery grip and battery that has all the features I want (great 5.76 million dot EVF, ergonomic, IBIS, better sensor, dual card slot) and use adapter for adapted glass while waiting FF mirror less manufacturers to duke it out. Panasonic S1 with my Sigma EF lenses will be enough for all my photographic needs. I would only upgrade if a major advancement like global shutter with BSI sensor. Even upgrading to it, the cost of renting Panasonic S1 is minuscule for me.

I'm traveling to alot of places this year that's consider once in a lifetime visit so upgrading to a more capable camera such as S1 definitely make sense for me rather than waiting until 2020.
 

epiieq1

EOS 5D III, 1DX
Aug 9, 2013
33
17
Wedding season is almost upon us and changing systems at this moment would be a risky move.
I suggest transitioning to a new system the way they recommend retirees choose to re-locate: Rent.

Rent for a month or so and see if you like the neighborhood. Find out whether the hospitals are any good, the restaurants are the sort you like and the entertainment available is to your taste. Cameras are the same way. It takes time to decide if you are in love or were you just deceived by a particularly curvaceous specification and the shrill voice of operation makes you crazy.

IMO we often take the gifts of our current situation for granted and realize their strengths by their absence.
I'm actually in the process of renting an EOS R with 28-70, and an A9 with 24-70GM and 70-200GM over back to back weeks. While it's not cheap, I've also got a couple of personal shoots lined up to help me see how both may work for what I need in the interim. I 100% agree switching just before wedding season is risky, and I also want to make sure that anything I do look to invest in will work as I hope it will.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
424
235
Frankfurt, Germany
An EOS R version of the 5Ds / 5Dsr line aimed at Landscape photographers sporting increased resolution,
Well, classic landscape photography often works with a huge DoF, with apertures numbers of f=14 and more. But a 35mm sensor camera with such small pixels will deliver optimum sharpness at apertures below f=5.6 I guess, because of diffraction blur. If wanted to really shoot landscape with such a high resolution I always would change to medium format - I mean real medium format with 4.5cm x 6cm minimum, not the tiny sensors in the Hassi X1D / Fuji GFX 50 sort of cameras.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
424
235
Frankfurt, Germany
Choosing a smaller resolution means that your camera computes a smaller photo out of the bigger one. That's like shrinking the resolution in Photoshop. The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo. That's why the Sony A7SII with its 12 megapixels beats other cameras even if you shrink their images to 12 megapixels.
With a high resolution sensor a camera would need a real pixel binning feature, i.e. a mode that combines clusters of smaller pixels to one bigger virtual pixel on-sensor. If Canon would implement such a feature I would seriously consider buying such a high MP monster, because it would be able to combine both worlds - extremely high resolution if you want it and great low-light performance if you shoot in dark settings. But I don't think Canon will offer such a feature. That would require some substantial additions in the sensor hardware and may get in conflict with the DP AF system (not sure about that).
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
679
298
maybe not. Canon will be doing the 1DX Mark III, that's probably good enough for this go around. 2012Q2 would be probably too late for the Olympics, it would have to come out in around 2012Q1 at the latest and to be honest.. that's just not going to happen.
2012 Q2 was just in time for the 2012 Olympics in London.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
679
298
Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.

https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/

If you have CMOS with one large pixel instead of 4 small binned pixels you can look at it as if you used CCD binning from that article. Readout is simply better and it still allows doing SW processing on top of that.

If you are comparing pixel to pixel you're totally missing the point when one has pixels that are one-half the linear dimensions and one-fourth the area of the other.

Viewing a 22-23 MP image at 100% on a 23" HD monitor is like looking at a piece of a 60"x40" enlargement.

Viewing an 88-90MP image at 100% on the same monitor is like looking at a piece of a 120"x80" enlargement.

Viewing the 88-90M image at 50% gives the same enlargement size as viewing the 22-23MP image at 100%. Both are the same sized piece of a 60"x40" enlargement.

Since noise is random (that's what makes it "noise"), averaging multiple noisy pixels together makes the averaged larger pixel less noisy and reduces the standard deviation between each pixel than the four smaller pixels it replaced.