The next EOS R system camera gets a mention again [CR1]

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,974
125
I hate to say it but I second that. I'm looking at the X-T3 for video with an adapter for my Canon glass. Not a purchase I'm going to make right away but I can see myself doing it this summer.

I"m thinking about maybe renting the BM Design 4K pocket camera, and maybe the metabones adapter for my EF lenses, just to play with it and see how it works and how the workflow is. I like with the BM Design, you also get included the FULL version fo Davinci Resolve....like a $300 value.

I love my current 5D3 still, it works great for me...I actually bought it when it first came out, my first ever DSLR, and believe it or not, I bought it primarily for VIDEO!!

I'm in New Orleans and just before it came out, I was on a commercial video shoot, and saw someone shooting with the strangest camera, caged and everything...it was the 5D2. I started looking into it and the 5D3 came out.

It wasn't till a year or so later I actually started experimenting shooting stills with it and fell in love with stills too.

So, I will buy a "R" camera when one comes out that is comparable to the "5" line of cameras. Of course I'll use some video with it too, but it will be primarily for my stills, and will use my 5D3 as backup.

But with the reasonable price of the BM 4K camera for video, a dedicated very well rated camera, I would look into buying it too primarily for video and using my "R" can 5D3 cameras as backup or B roll cameras.

Sounds like a great setup for me at least.

I saw that lensrentals.com has a 15% discount for this month, if I can get the 'day job' settled a bit more, I might rent the BM 4K camera for a long weekend and see how it works.

cayenne
 
Jan 10, 2019
4
7
NOOOOO Canon, don't put IBIS in the next EOS R at the moment your the only Camera Company that dosn't have it. IBIS is for marketing and amateurs who don't know how to hold a camera. Canon is also correct in stating the optical stabilization is better than sensor stabilization. If you do introduce IBIS at least make it an option that it can be turned off in camera.
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.
the differences are so minor you'd never see it in your photography, not to mention you entirely decided to ignore what exactly I wrote, which was the fact that more pixels allows you a greater freedom of computational NR before you reduce the image size.
 
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SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
304
117
The problem with small pixels is the sensor noise of every single pixel, that does not really vanish when you shrink your photo.
It doesn't vanish, but it is cut massively. Say we're comparing a hi-res sensor with 4x the pixels, and each pixel is 1/4 the size, of a lo-res sensor.

The photon noise will actually be the same between the lo-res sensor and the 4x downsampled hi-res sensor. The sensor also has what's called "read noise" and after downsampling, the hi-res sensor will still have twice the read noise of the lo-res sampler. Any college-level Intro to Statistics will teach you why.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,397
840
Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.
Or that the article you quote is not accurate or not applicable.

I'm going to say the latter is true regardless of the former. For real world photography "signal" is the resolved detail in two dimensions. Signal is not merely a single color with noise being the variance from that test color.

Perhaps if you shoot a gray card with the A7sII and A7rIII and bin a few of the latter's pixels to match one of the former's you will get a higher SNR value from the A7sII. But the "signal" you are analyzing in that SNR value is not the same "signal" that human beings are receiving when they actually look at the image. If we go by the photographic "signal" then the A7rIII is going to have the highest SNR even if you don't utilize NR processing.
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
304
117
Canon will be doing the 1DX Mark III, that's probably good enough for this go around. 2012Q2 would be probably too late for the Olympics, it would have to come out in around 2012Q1 at the latest and to be honest.. that's just not going to happen.
The 1DX Mark III would certainly be good enough for the Olympics, but it wouldn't be the grand kick-off that Canon would like for the R. While I agree the camera has to be in the photog's hands several months ahead of time to get good using it, it needn't actually be on sale yet. They can totally give early production to Olympics photogs and put it on sale later.

And again, a fast pro R may be either the pro R announced for later this year, or may be a second version with a smaller res but faster sensor. The model announced this year, if we can believe the announcement, is "pro", meaning dual memories, big battery, and IBIS. If they've got that at 70MP I simply don't see why a lower-res but faster sports model would take much extra engineering at all. Indeed if on is 2019Q4 they could probably both be. It'd be more a matter of spreading out the releases a bit to keep the Canon name in the headlines more, and to keep the demand from being too spiky.
 
I was not interested in mirrorless R system, but this could change my mind (along with larger than 2.8 zoom lenses). I think the question for me and perhaps others will be do we jump over in the next couple years, or do we hold out and take advantage of presumably good prices on used EOS gear that early R adopters start dumping?
 
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digitalride

EOS T7i
Apr 2, 2012
51
28
Large pixel has better SNR than binned CMOS pixels. It just means that A7RIII uses some SW processing which is not in A7SII or that DXO data are useless.

https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/

If you have CMOS with one large pixel instead of 4 small binned pixels you can look at it as if you used CCD binning from that article. Readout is simply better and it still allows doing SW processing on top of that.
That article is not wrong, and in theory one large cmos pixel could do slightly better than four small cmos pixels combined in software in terms of noise , but in practice with modern cameras smaller pixels downsampled does better in terms of noise and detail. 4 small pixels gives you more detail information to work with in software processing than 1 large pixel.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,397
840
I"m thinking about maybe renting the BM Design 4K pocket camera, and maybe the metabones adapter for my EF lenses, just to play with it and see how it works and how the workflow is. I like with the BM Design, you also get included the FULL version fo Davinci Resolve....like a $300 value.
The BMPCC is a great cinema camera, and I've looked at it as well. Larger sensors and AF features pull me towards the A73 or XT3. Between those two the XT3's price, color science, 10-bit out, 4k60p, and great bit rates (versus the A73) will probably win me over. Sensor size is a concern simply because I have FF glass and don't want a severe crop. I'm not even thrilled with a 1.5x crop but the XT3 offers so much for video. The BMPCC's sensor is of course excellent and it's giving you even more video features.

I love my current 5D3 still, it works great for me...I actually bought it when it first came out, my first ever DSLR, and believe it or not, I bought it primarily for VIDEO!!...It wasn't till a year or so later I actually started experimenting shooting stills with it and fell in love with stills too.
5D3 is a workhorse. A very solid camera that has been used to produce many award winning shots.

But with the reasonable price of the BM 4K camera for video, a dedicated very well rated camera, I would look into buying it too primarily for video and using my "R" can 5D3 cameras as backup or B roll cameras.
That seems to be the best strategy for now. I think Canon will give us a good hybrid stills/video R camera. I just don't expect it until 2020 at the earliest.
 
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rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Oh, c'mon!
We just need EOS R Body better than Canon 5D Mark IV, who the hell needs 70mp?
That's just absurd in terms of file size and shooting spped :(
Obviously "we" does not include "me" who really wants this camera out, as it's the EOS R camera I've been waiting for.

Perhaps it's always best not to assume you know what everyone else wants. Just sayin'
 

jhpeterson

EOS RP
Feb 7, 2011
239
15
I'm most interested in seeing this camera. What's of critical importance to me is a weather-sealed 1D build, along with fast AF and a long-lasting battery. I'd expect dual slots to be a given and would really appreciate IBIS.
What I'd also like to see is that this camera offers at least two RAW modes, the high-resolution one here mentioned, albeit a relatively low frame rate, as well as a reduced-size file for action sports.
 

ozturert

EOS T7i
Jan 16, 2019
97
80
Have Canon DSLR ergonomy, 5D IV dynamic range, 70+MP, good Dual Pixel AF, articulating touch screen, good shutter noise, good weather sealing, max. 3500USD and thisis my next camera.
 

Aaron D

EOS 80D
Jul 21, 2016
143
109
Kansas City
www.aarondougherty.com
An outlier possibility is that this will be an image-quality-above-all-else camera, and it will be a roughly 1 frames per second camera at maximum quality.
A high-res, low frame rate camera would be perfect for studio/landscape/architectural photos. It doesn't need great video or high ISOs. Or IBIS! I know I'm one of the few whackos left who hasn't converted to IBIS-ism, but with this type camera I'm using a tripod anyway. And I don't want to pay extra for the added complexity I'll never use. The 5DS optimizes everything for quality (softer mirror return, stronger tripod mount, etc)—I personally believe that means bolting your sensor down.
 
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Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,094
272
I think it was always going to be the next Canon mirrorless because it seems the next easiest camera to make. I may have a bad model but I’ve never fully liked the 5DSR. For me the 50MP are not worth the hassle of dealing with the additional data. I really only found it good in a studio. I think if I wanted 70MP files I’d go medium format.
I know birders want this camera. It would get extra pixels on the target.
I’ve personally never found this a great advantage. I’ve found getting closer better but I’m not a specialist in birds.
 

freejay

EOS M50
Feb 3, 2015
39
24
Since we're on it: I don't need more megapixels than my R. But I'd like IBIS (esp. for third party lenses) and a little more speed - resulting in higher video frame rates, non-crop 4K, less rolling shutter, faster continuous autofocus, less "black out" - that's more or less it! :)
 

jmoya

EOS T7i
Feb 8, 2016
57
5
Stupid stupid canon. first they give us the R then the RP with old recycled sensors and wacky frame rates and crop video with no 120. Now they introduce a stupid overkill mp count on photos sensor that will pretty much mean you'll need to get a new computer and mega capacity memory cards and hard drives. No need for 70mp. 40 mp would've been more than enough. The ibis would be nice as the dual card slots as 120fps for 1080 and a non crop 4k in a useful codec. Canon will screw this up somehow. Trust me, they will. They always screw it up somehow. If not the body will be so damn big that'll it'll make it a hassel to travel with. Canon for life but c'mon...give us a break and give us something we can be proud of being a canon user. Losing faith on each canon body release for the past few years. I don't care how much the thing cost. Stop trying to make them affordable and just make them good. I'll pay whatever you want...just make it a good one!!!
 
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