The rest of 2019 for Canon will be about updating dated product lines [CR2]

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
that's hardly quantitive data.

and your one is just linking "full frame mirrorless" which is only a small portion of the overall market, what the heck good is that?
here's real world data of course it doesn't fit with your narrative that you seem to be consistently posting on.
https://www.canonnews.com/canons-2018-financials-the-market-slides-and-canon-with-it



2016 was artificially high. so if you discount that year, Canon's marketshare has been steadily growing since 2015. In a declining market.
I didn't know this. Thanks for pointing out. It seems everywhere I look, Canon numbers including sales volume has been down.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,182
1,455
Reactions: tron

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,182
1,455
I didn't know this. Thanks for pointing out. It seems everywhere I look, Canon numbers including sales volume has been down.
The digital camera market is shrinking, so is ILC market segment. Canon’s market share is not changing. Your claims that all the ‘competition entering the market’ are having a negative impact on Canon are simply not suppprted by the data. Continuing to repeat misinformation won’t change the fact that it’s bogus.
 
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bichex

EOS M50
Dec 9, 2014
31
46
Así de mal.
Tengo una 7D II con una gran cantidad de uso y se ha comenzado a fallar. El problema es que entra en el menú cuando toco cualquier botón de la cámara, y es imposible usarlo cuando sucede. En mi país no hay servicio de canon oficial. Tengo un viaje a Ecuador pronto y en base a los comentarios que compré un nuevo 80D como un cuerpo de reserva. Una gran decepción, la AF es muy inferior a la 7D II y realmente no funciona para lo que necesito. Tengo amigos que utilizan la D500 de Nikon y es triste que aceptar pero es muy superior a mi 7D II, en la FA y en alta ISOS. Si el canon no actualiza el 7D II, que debería considerar el cambio a Nikon, que no quiero ya que tengo lentes, flashes y todo tipo de accesorios que serán una pérdida de tiempo y dinero. De todos modos, creo que Canon no tiene un sensor que puede competir, y esa es la razón por la que no veo un nuevo 7D II. No tengo ninguna interer en el sistema de RF por ahora.
 
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unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Así de mal.
Tengo una 7D II con una gran cantidad de uso y se ha comenzado a fallar. El problema es que entra en el menú cuando toco cualquier botón de la cámara, y es imposible usarlo cuando sucede. En mi país no hay servicio de canon oficial. Tengo un viaje a Ecuador pronto y en base a los comentarios que compré un nuevo 80D como un cuerpo de reserva. Una gran decepción, la AF es muy inferior a la 7D II y realmente no funciona para lo que necesito. Tengo amigos que utilizan la D500 de Nikon y es triste que aceptar pero es muy superior a mi 7D II, en la FA y en alta ISOS. Si el canon no actualiza el 7D II, que debería considerar el cambio a Nikon, que no quiero ya que tengo lentes, flashes y todo tipo de accesorios que serán una pérdida de tiempo y dinero. De todos modos, creo que Canon no tiene un sensor que puede competir, y esa es la razón por la que no veo un nuevo 7D II. No tengo ninguna interer en el sistema de RF por ahora.
That's unfortunate. I can understand why you wouldn't want to buy a new 7DII or pay a lot to have it repaired at this point, when you never know when a new model might come out.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS 80D
Aug 11, 2016
173
39
Neuro, normally you are right, but this time you are wrong. Phones are going to completely replace DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. I have already given up on them for bird photography and the reason is easy to see. Just look at the following pictures!

Chickadee in tree!
View attachment 183644

Hairy woodpecker at feeder
View attachment 183645

Bald eagle in flight
View attachment 183646
Appreciate the sarcasm, but I can perhaps see lower end mirrorless cameras being eventually displaced by phones as well in the near future. For many casual shooters, there will have to a compelling need to actually purchase and carry around an ILC. The newest Huawei P30 Pro has a 16mm-125mm FL range combined with a TOF depth camera. I believe Sony is also working with Light and Xiaomi to deliver upcoming multi-camera smartphones as well. IMO, although the Light L16 itself was a failure, it was a great proof of concept now actually being realized more and more in consumer smartphones where it counts. When we get to 200mm, an average smartphone will have covered the mainstay trinity of most camera systems 16-35, 24-70, 70-200...
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
The digital camera market is shrinking, so is ILC market segment. Canon’s market share is not changing. Your claims that all the ‘competition entering the market’ are having a negative impact on Canon are simply not suppprted by the data. Continuing to repeat misinformation won’t change the fact that it’s bogus.
Canon make a lot of products from entry fixed lenses to FF mirrorless. They still have alot of loyalty world wide. Their top selling mirrorless is M50 while Sony is A7III that cost significantly more.

As an enthusiast and a professional, I care more about FF market more. I could care less about sales numbers for entry camera. Canon EOS RP will sell well but it doesn't mean much for me.

Here is some data. https://nikonrumors.com/2019/02/04/december-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-market-share-in-japan-sony-66-4-canon-17-5-nikon-16.aspx/

The sales for December 2018 are - Sony: 66.4%, Canon: 17.5%, Nikon: 16%.

You don't think more competitions not just in camera manufacturers (Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Sigma, Nikon) but lens manufacturers (Tamron, Sigma, etc) has any impact on Canon especially in the FF market?
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
As an enthusiast and a professional, I care more about FF market more. I could care less about sales numbers for entry camera. Canon EOS RP will sell well but it doesn't mean much for me. [
That makes no sense. Camera companies are not sports teams. The only reason to care about the market is because it has an impact on the profitability and sustainability of the brand. It is important because it means the company is more likely to continue to improve and market new products and support its lines. To get a sense of that, you need to look at the entire product line. Sales of entry-level cameras has a direct (in fact the most) impact on sustainability in the market.

Splitting hairs down to only the product that you specifically care about only makes sense if you get some satisfaction from owning a popular product. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't think for a minute it has any real world impact.

You don't think more competitions not just in camera manufacturers (Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Sigma, Nikon) but lens manufacturers (Tamron, Sigma, etc) has any impact on Canon especially in the FF market?
Of course it does. That's why Canon has entered the full-frame mirrorless market and laid out an aggressive strategy with high quality lenses and a variety of bodies. Canon is reacting aggressively to market changes, it's just not reacting in the way that you specifically want it to.
 

Chuckmet

I'm New Here
Jan 18, 2019
22
11

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,182
1,455
As an enthusiast and a professional, I care more about FF market more. I could care less about sales numbers for entry camera. Canon EOS RP will sell well but it doesn't mean much for me.
So we've gone from a general 'Canon is suffering because of all the competition' to 'I am talking about the non-entry level FF market because that's what I care about'. Canon sold more FF ILCs than any other manufacturer in 2018. Given that fact, let me anticipate your next goalpost move – you really only care about FF mirrorless. In fact, you have already gone there:

Consider this: prior to September, 2018 Sony had essentially 100% of the FF MILC market, since the only competition in that sub-segment was Leica, and Leica doesn't really sell enough cameras to be even a blip on global market figures. You are arguing that 'all this competition is hurting Canon', but the data you link to support that claim tell a very different story. Sony lost 44% of the Japanese FF MILC market in just 4 months. How can you believe that supports the argument that Canon is hurting from competition? Sorry but the lack of logical comprehension inherent in that suggestion is rather staggering.

Consider...back in 2012 Sony was essentially the only maker of ASP-C MILCs (the other brands were m4/3), and there were no mainstream FF MILCs. Canon launched the EOS M, critics and forum dwellers hated it. Sony pivoted to emphasize FF MILCs, which was a wise move on their part since the EOS M line has now become the best-selling APS-C MILC line. But now, Canon and Nikon have entered the FF MILC market, and Sony is hemorrhaging market share, although they remain the leader in that sub-segment (for now). Time will tell if they can hold onto that lead once Canon and Nikon have had FF MILC models on the market for a full year.
 

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
That proves that in a year in which Canon did not offer a FF MILC for most of the year they didn't win the sales game of FF MILCs. Enjoy the next few months, because when those numbers come out next time you're going to be sobbing in the corner.

What it does not prove is that people who already owned Canon cameras (FF or crop) are actually jumping ship to Sony or anyone else as is constantly claimed. Do you want to try again?
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
347
186
That proves that in a year in which Canon did not offer a FF MILC for most of the year they didn't win the sales game of FF MILCs. Enjoy the next few months, because when those numbers come out next time you're going to be sobbing in the corner.

What it does not prove is that people who already owned Canon cameras (FF or crop) are actually jumping ship to Sony or anyone else as is constantly claimed. Do you want to try again?
Why would I sob? We are talking about camera not life or death situation I deal with every day in my full time job.

If a certain camera sell more or less, I couldn't care less. I don't own any share in Canon, Nikon, Sony etc.

I own shares in other companies and I don't care either as long they make me money. A camera is just a tool for me.
 
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Daner

EOS M50
Aug 15, 2017
25
15
Stockholm
When it comes to updating the 7D Mk II they don't really need anything earth-shattering to give many current users what they want. Parts-bin engineering could provide the sensor from the 80D for a boost in resolution and DR. The fixed touch screen from the 5D Mk IV could provide additional functionality and user-friendliness without compromising durability like a flippy screen might. Dual Digic 8 processors would eliminate buffer issues and enable more impressive video capture options. The AF system from the 1D X Mk II would improve AF capabilities. Any improved DPAF capabilities from the EOS R for improved performance during live-view shooting and video work would be welcome. Carry over the 10FPS 200k life shutter, the SD/CF card slots, the joystick, and the LP-E6N battery from the current model.

None of those things are new, but they could take the 7D Mk III several steps closer to the D500 without requiring a huge investment in new tech, keeping the price under control.

I've already traded up from a 7D Mk II to a 5D Mk IV and sold my EF-S lenses, but when I go looking for a second body I would rather put my long glass on a crop-sensor body with the capabilities that I have described then deal with the current limitations of the R line.
 
Last edited:
Mar 19, 2019
5
3
What's up with that? I thought this rumor pretty much confirmed we're getting replacements for the M series:


From all those certified cameras, the EOS R (Edit: meant the RP) was the only one released so far. There's a bunch of M and SLR on that list. Especially the 32 MP 90D sounds really interesting. And you mentioned a rumor about the upcoming 24MP sensors beeing new designs recently. So those M6 and M5 upgrades could be quite interesting as well.
I hope the M upgrades do come. In South Africa one of the online stores already has the M5 marked as discontinued, and prices are dropping on M6. I won't upgrade right now, but want the system to stay alive and well.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,035
162
Davidson, NC
Perhaps this post needs its own topic, or perhaps it deserves oblivion. I'm wondering about the "be careful what you wish for" possibilities of 4K. That seems to be on everyone's wish list for all sorts of cameras. Ignoring the whole discussion of whether most folks need or will benefit from 4K (which we've had before, and which seems to have less relevance as more cameras include it anyway), can the implementation in some cameras amount to less quality from the 4K as from the existing 1080p? Or is that fact that sensors are already greater than 9 MP mean there are plenty of data for 4K anyway? What about compression? Is highly compressed 4K really any better or more useful than moderately compressed 1080p, say for example that you get the same bitrate for transferring and storing?
 

mensaf

EOS M50
Aug 21, 2018
56
27
Washington, DC
I hope the M upgrades do come. In South Africa one of the online stores already has the M5 marked as discontinued, and prices are dropping on M6. I won't upgrade right now, but want the system to stay alive and well.
If I had to guess, they're probably going to announce the next gen M5/M6 on April 3rd. I've seen more and more online retailers label them out of stock.
 

neonlight

EOS 80D
Jul 10, 2015
116
8
Don
something wrong with your calculations I think. Pixels have full well (max. electron counts) in the order of 100,000, not 2^14.
DR is 20 log(full well/noise) so if noise is 10 electrons and FW 100,000 that makes 80dB DR, just over 13 bits. Though smaller pixels may not reach 10,000 electrons FW, and noise might not be as low as 10 but the best pixels can reach 2.
 

neonlight

EOS 80D
Jul 10, 2015
116
8
A long time ago (well, maybe a couple of years) it was reported that Canon were thinking of updating "all of the 400mm lenses". We've had upgrades to the 100-400, 400DO, 400 f/2.8 ... where's the one for 400 f/5.6?