5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

[marekjoz]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Quote from: Chuck Alaimo on Today at 07:17:51 AM
Quote
why shoot sRaw? just shoot raw and downsize.. I never understood shooting at a quality less then your camera could provide..

Images would take up more space on memory cards, resulting in more memory card changes during a shoot. Images would take more time to download, then time spent downsampling and converting to a new file and erasing the original. Time is money...


Raw versus sRaw - This goes beyond just memory cards. How many harddrives can you afford if only shooting full sized Raw?

SRaw is fine for many purposes. I mean really, how many weddings or portrait shoots result in people wanting larger than a 20x30 print? Generally for non-art shoots, I go with sRaw on my 7D - and sometimes when i do shoot art i forget to switch back to full size RAW. I've done 20x30 prints from sRaw files, and they look pretty damn good


I suspect that I take/keep as many pictures as most, and with the RAW file from a 7D, a $100 3TB drive that stores roughly 167,000 images will last me for awhile. And the $100 is pretty insignificant in terms of photography expenses.

Just cause you can do a thing doesn't mean you have to or should! I personally like the sRAW option. I use it quite a bit. Plus, combined cost. I currently have one 16 gig, and two 8 gig CF cards - they ain't cheap (CF cards can be more pricey than a harddrive!) at sRAW, you can fit triple the amount of shots per card. Add in the extra storage cost to shoot everything in full RAW, sorry its just too much! Again, how many people are buying giant sized prints (40x60 and up) from things like events and weddings? sRAW is fine for prints 20x30 and lower...just saying...

Image manipulation in postproduction costs quality. The more pixels the better final result. Smaller images maipulated in postproduction may lead to loosing details. Picture manipulation algorithms don't work on separate pixels only but rather also consider it's surrounding.

 

[Axilrod]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

So if this were the case, they would be releasing 2 new 5D's AND the Cinema DSLR? And supposedly the 7DII and more all in the same year? It sounds like this "tip" was sent by someone that wasn't happy with the supposed 22MP 5DIII specs and is desperately trying to manifest the camera of his dreams.

It doesn't make sense to cannibalize the Cinema DSLR sales with a 5DX

 

[adamfilip]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

SRaw is fine for many purposes. I mean really, how many weddings or portrait shoots result in people wanting larger than a 20x30 print? Generally for non-art shoots, I go with sRaw on my 7D - and sometimes when i do shoot art i forget to switch back to full size RAW. I've done 20x30 prints from sRaw files, and they look pretty damn good!

Not many will want a 20x30 but if you shoot sRAW and someone does want it.. or even larger.. you would wish that you had indeed shot RAW instead.. why limit yourself.. storage is cheap. and you only get 1 chance to get it right.

 

[briansquibb]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

So if this were the case, they would be releasing 2 new 5D's AND the Cinema DSLR? And supposedly the 7DII and more all in the same year? It sounds like this "tip" was sent by someone that wasn't happy with the supposed 22MP 5DIII specs and is desperately trying to manifest the camera of his dreams.

It doesn't make sense to cannibalize the Cinema DSLR sales with a 5DX

I agree - but is the the 7DII which is the extra one? I am happy to wait and see

A minor update to the current 5DII sensor would give the video user the 2K by moving to 22mp+. It would be nice that when they update the sensor to improve high iso. I find that at iso 3200 it is good and 6400 it is bad, very abrupt, unlike the 1D4 where it is a more gradual tail off

 

[lol]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Im with you on this one, if they used a FF sensor with 45mp giving the same pixel density as the 7D it's a disatster waiting to happen if the resulting IQ suffers anything like the 7D's does.

It will be fine for those who like to brag about mp or use a tripod but for handheld events etc it will be S___e!

Be realistic, if the 7D's sensor was so horrific, then pretty much all of Canon's current APS-C bodies using the same sensor would be dead.

I know, different people have a different noise threshold, but unless you're submitting to the extremely noise-phobic stock agencies or are a terminal pixel peeper, it is really insignificant. Personally up to ISO800 on the 7D the noise is insignificant, and I find it usable to 6400 easily. If you ignore DoF equivalence considerations, then like for like settings with a 45/46MP full frame would have over a stop advantage just from sensor size anyway.

Further bear in mind the 7D sensor is I think getting on for some two and a half years old. Any new sensor should have moved on since then.

There will be many people who don't need a high MP model, or even know what to do with one, but they don't need to get it. In the same way, the 1D X may be a great camera, but it isn't suited for my needs. For those that do know why they want a high MP model, this rumoured X model is spot on. The 5D2 would be in the bin* the second I got one.

*Ok, I wouldn't really bin it, but sticking it on ebay is close enough!

 

[zazamiii]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Hi,

I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.

I invite you to call in your respective countries to try confirmed this info.

*no infos abt a split in the line...

 

[marekjoz]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Hi,

I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.

I invite you to call in your respective countries to try confirmed this info.

*no infos abt a split in the line...

It might be. We read (www.techradar.com) "The company hopes to sell 9.2 million interchangeable lens cameras and 22 million compact cameras in the next 12 months, up from 7.2 million and 18.2 million respectively." If they want to sell so many DSLR, then I'm sure they don't hope make these numbers only on entry level, 1dx, 7d and 5d2. If they want achieve it, better them hurry up a bit or the next president will resign and stock price falls again.
What are Canon's production capabilities BTW? The sales plans must be consistent to production plans at least. I assume that if they would announce next cash cow too late, they simply would not be able to produce so many of them. We read somewhere else (bernama.com): 'Nikon Sendai to produce 30,000 D800 and 5,000 D4 cameras per month". It makes Nikon to produce 350k those Nikons to the end of the year. So I'm interested, assuming similar production capabilities - how is Canon to achieve it without very fast announcement? We read also (http://www.netxt.com/canon-plans-to-introduce-micro-single-camera-slr-production-capacity-of-10-million-units/): "Canon Business Department head ago Tian Zhengye (Masaya Maeda) (...) before said the company expanding in Taiwan factory capacity allowing it to DSLR production capacity reaches 10 million it." Ok. if so, then they are able to produce but when do they start to achieve it? In September? Then too late....

 

[mathino]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Hi,

I was on the phone today with Canon India in New Delhi.
They affirmed me that the canon 5D Mark III would be announced in March and in the market in April.

I invite you to call in your respective countries to try confirmed this info.

*no infos abt a split in the line...

As I posted before, there are some shows/exhibitions in March

March
+ 4-7: Focus on Imaging in Birmingham (UK)
+ 6-10: CeBIT in Hannover (Germany)
+ 24-26: Photoshop World in Washington DC (USA)

IF there will be some announcement I would bet on CeBIT. I've checked the first one, takes place in UK and there is only Canon UK as listed. Under CeBIT there is Canon Deutschland and Canon Europe - so show with higher importance.

http://www.cebit.de/en/List-Exhibitors?group=c
http://www.focus-on-imaging.co.uk/exhibitors.htm

But if you ask me, I think it is more plausible to see new FF camera on those Vegas events:
February
+ 16-23: WPPI (Wedding & portrait photography - full conference) in Las Vegas (USA)
April
+ 14-19: NAB 2012 in Las Vegas (USA)

 

[image2paint]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Shows shows shows... that's just where they would showcase the 5d iii mathino, but nice list !

Nikon announced the D800 at locations all over the globe on the same day. I like the idea of the 5d iii just being announced worldwide 28th of February in the same manor as Nikon did and in stores april

 

[Picsfor]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I've seen the light.

I'm gonna flog all my gear and get an iPhone! :

 

[goodmane]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

So long as at least one of them has a built in flash

 

[mathino]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

Shows shows shows... that's just where they would showcase the 5d iii mathino, but nice list !

Nikon announced the D800 at locations all over the globe on the same day. I like the idea of the 5d iii just being announced worldwide 28th of February in the same manor as Nikon did and in stores april

I know that shows are only to showcase new stuff to public but it gives a little info/clue about possible annoucement times That's just what I think

They can put an announcement on 28th of Febrary and show this new body on CeBIT or another show to public. But this date is only a rumor for now. We have to wait till (let's say) 21st of February, maybe there will be some leak or good source of info.

As opposite to Nikon we have no credible info about specs or something - Nikon guys had 90 % of specs out long time before official announcement. We gonna be surprised (time would tell if it will be exicitement or dissapointment) ! I'm betting on excitement, Canon can't afford to release something half-made/half-tested - that's why we are waiting so long

I'm also eagerly waiting for any possible info about new 5D (or whatever it will be) as I want to upgrade to FF. So keep the news comming !

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I just hope they up the DR by two to three stops. They need that badly at low ISO.

 

[DarkKnightNine]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I can say after seeing the D800 in Yokohama (at CP+) yesterday, the rumors of the 45MP 5DX had better be true. Nikon has a clear winner on their hands from what I can tell after playing with the camera. As a mainly studio photographer, the D800 really appealed to me. The images I shot with it were nothing short of amazing! I was blown away by the detail I saw on the camera's LCD, so I can imagine how great they would look once I got them into Aperture or Lightroom. I really hoping Canon answers back with this 45MP beast. 2012 is going to be an interesting year for photographers for sure. I was considering upgrading to a Leica S2, but if Canon and Nikon can produce similar or better image quality in a camera priced at a fourth the cost, Leica just lost their entire S2 market.


On another note, I also had the opportunity to play with the Canon 1DX, but since it's off topic here, I will post my thoughts about it on another forum.

 

[simonxu11]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I can say after seeing the D800 in Yokohama (at CP+) yesterday, the rumors of the 45MP 5DX had better be true. Nikon has a clear winner on their hands from what I can tell after playing with the camera. As a mainly studio photographer, the D800 really appealed to me. The images I shot with it were nothing short of amazing! I was blown away by the detail I saw on the camera's LCD, so I can imagine how great they would look once I got them into Aperture or Lightroom. I really hoping Canon answers back with this 45MP beast. 2012 is going to be an interesting year for photographers for sure. I was considering upgrading to a Leica S2, but if Canon and Nikon can produce similar or better image quality in a camera priced at a fourth the cost, Leica just lost their entire S2 market.


On another note, I also had the opportunity to play with the Canon 1DX, but since it's off topic here, I will post my thoughts about it on another forum.

I don't like the idea of a 45MP beast to be honest. The images are from D800 do look superb, but I can see a lot of potential buyers are worry about the file size, the storage, the processing time etc. If Canon put a 45mp on the market, these problems can become more serious. As a result, those buyers will go toward to D800 straight away, because the D800 suddenly becomes a more balanced camera for them. And I don't think the high ISO level of a 45MP camera can match the D800.

If Canon are into high MP beast, I hope they can release a similar MP as the D800, let the IQ decides which one is better.

BTW, Lecica has a totally different market.

 

[BDD]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I don't see a problem with Canon putting out a 45MP 5D (5DX)...............as long as they ALSO give us the 5D3 (22MP/high ISO/high DR). That there will be a split.

Hopefully we'll find out soon what Canon is planning to do. So far they haven't leaked any details like Nikon did prior to the release of their D800. We should know more come the end of this month which is the rumored time frame for the 5DX/5D3 announcement.

 

[D_Rochat]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

I don't see how file size is an issue here. You can get TB drives relatively cheap now and they will only continue to drop in price.

 

[BDD]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

The only "problem", more an inconvenience than anything else, would be the frequent swapping of memory cards when you're in the field. Depending on how many shots you typically take. Whether you're a hobbyist or working photographer.

I think high MP cameras are really suited for studio photographers where big file size and detail is required. As has been mentioned already over and over. The rest of us (hobbyists) should be more than happy with a 5D3. Which isn't to say working photogs won't buy the 5D3 too. The rest of us simply do not need 45MP (or the 36MP from a D800).

I still find it interesting the direction Nikon has taken. From pushing low MP/large pixels to putting out a 36MP D800.

Will Canon really put out 2 versions of the 5D?

 

[lol]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.

Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!

As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?

 

[briansquibb]

Re: 5D Split? 5D X & 5D Mark III [CR1]

A typical RAW from 18MP is about... 25MB. 45MP is about 2.5x that, so let's say we're looking at average raws of 65MB on a 45MP sensor. So you need 2.5x the storage, not really significant given that cards, hard disks, and CPUs are getting faster all the time. We're still looking in the ball park of 250 shots per 16GB CF card. 32GB are commonly available and more affordable than ever.

Put another way, if you're too cheap to handle 45MP files, you probably can't afford the body in the first place either so there's no problem!

As to two models of 5D, let's put aside the name and rephrase that: will Canon put out two sub 1D level full frame bodies. Easy answer - Why not? They can remove or add models as needed. Who saw the 7D coming before it came out?

Well stated