Another Spec List for the Entry Level Full Frame EOS

[Loswr]

If this camera has the same 18mp sensor as the 1DX, would the image quality be the same? Or does the dual processor in the 1DX make for a better image? I'm curious about RAW performance here. If it is the same sensor as the 1DX and the IQ is the same, then would this new full frame have better IQ than the new 5D.

The processor does not (should not, at any rate) affect RAW IQ. But, that doesn't mean they'll have the same IQ. Firmware does play a role in RAW IQ, and Canon could handicap a new FF camera with the 1D X's sensor in some way (not that I'm cynically suggesting that). One example, the spec list says the sensor may be 18 MP and the max ISO is 51200, which is two stops shy of where the 1D X goes.

 

[mathino]

The processor does not (should not, at any rate) affect RAW IQ. But, that doesn't mean they'll have the same IQ. Firmware does play a role in RAW IQ, and Canon could handicap a new FF camera with the 1D X's sensor in some way (not that I'm cynically suggesting that). One example, the spec list says the sensor may be 18 MP and the max ISO is 51200, which is two stops shy of where the 1D X goes.

Agree, firmware play a role in RAW output - so they could cripple it down a bit (which also seems quiet plausible).

...in terms of max ISO, depends on how we read max ISO. It could be max native (analog) ISO or max boosted ISO (like H2 setting).

Well, as Yoda stated in SW: "The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is." We need to wait, something else (info) will surface in 2-3 weeks

 

[ashmadux]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

 

[RLPhoto]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

I lol'd when you said the 7D's AF was terrible. The 7D's AF is the bee's knees. 8)

 

[mathino]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

I borrowed 7D from my friend and it had no problems with AF - always spot on. Ive used 70-200 f/4 L, 85 f/1.8 USM and 10-22 on it and no problem with any lens. Ive shot couple of wedding photos for friend of our family - they were pleased and they printed my photos (he told that my photos were beter then from official photog - well photog was shooting with flash, some sort of Nikkor DX zoom and D200). I havent done AFMA because I had it only for weekend, but Im sure it could be even more precise. But that depends on body...I guess.

 

[libertyranger]

If this camera has the same 18mp sensor as the 1DX, would the image quality be the same? Or does the dual processor in the 1DX make for a better image? I'm curious about RAW performance here. If it is the same sensor as the 1DX and the IQ is the same, then would this new full frame have better IQ than the new 5D.

The processor does not (should not, at any rate) affect RAW IQ. But, that doesn't mean they'll have the same IQ. Firmware does play a role in RAW IQ, and Canon could handicap a new FF camera with the 1D X's sensor in some way (not that I'm cynically suggesting that). One example, the spec list says the sensor may be 18 MP and the max ISO is 51200, which is two stops shy of where the 1D X goes.

Thanks for replying. In the case of the capped ISO, would the ISO range of 100-51,2000 be the same as the 1DX's ISO 100-51,200 range? Or would they scale the Image quality toward 51,200 on this new full frame to be the same as the 1DX's 200k. I suppose this is all speculation. However, it would be nice to see the same physical sensor in this new body, even if it has a lowered max ISO.

 

[mathino]

Thanks for replying. In the case of the capped ISO, would the ISO range of 100-51,2000 be the same as the 1DX's ISO 100-51,200 range? Or would they scale the Image quality toward 51,200 on this new full frame to be the same as the 1DX's 200k. I suppose this is all speculation. However, it would be nice to see the same physical sensor in this new body, even if it has a lowered max ISO.

Well, Ive quickly found a youtube video with info about native ISO.

http://youtu.be/wUahw9kGUeQ

You can check it. Its about video shooting but it gives a little light about it.

For photography native range is for example 100-51 200 - higher (or lower) means that its amplified by camera itself, its not in the analog range of sensor.

 

[RC]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

Sounds like you had a lemon. I would be thrilled with a lower cost FF with the 7D's AF (assuming the other specs meet my needs of course). Being a current 7D owner, it sure would make it smooth going back and forth between bodies.

 

[bdunbar79]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait. 7D crap AF system? Then you mention high noise images? Well, I hope you are not linking the AF system with high noise images? The AF system is spectactular on the 7D. High ISO is not. The two are not related.

 

[tbisu]

I DO NOT want the 7d's crap AF system. Instead of shooting with my 7d, its been a glorified paperweight for 6 months. Been back to canon 3 times. Refuses to consistently focus. That system sucks.

the 7d has a great form, and is a joy to use, but those high noise images and af trials have me ready to trade it in.

Unfortunately our experience has been the same. 2-3 out of 10 images sharp and in focus where they should be. Sent in to Canon in January, and still the same problems when we got it back. Just sent it in for the second time.

This entry level FF is looking better by the day...assuming Canon can retain us as a customer.

 

[Videoshooter]

I think I started the $2500 thing - here is my thinking. It would seem unlikely that Canon would sell a 'better' camera than the 5dMKII for less money. We haven't seen any direct successors coming out cheaper than their replacements in quite a while.

Well, this camera would not be the direct successor to the 5dmkII, so it is entirely feasible that it would come out at a lower price.

The one thing I think would be missing on a cheap FF at this price point is build quality - it would still be good, but not at the same level as the 7D. After all, not even the 5dmkII has the same weather sealing as the 7D.

I'd be perfectly happy with a 1Dx sensor in a body with 60D build quality, if it came in under $2000.

 

[libertyranger]

I think I started the $2500 thing - here is my thinking. It would seem unlikely that Canon would sell a 'better' camera than the 5dMKII for less money. We haven't seen any direct successors coming out cheaper than their replacements in quite a while.

Well, this camera would not be the direct successor to the 5dmkII, so it is entirely feasible that it would come out at a lower price.

The one thing I think would be missing on a cheap FF at this price point is build quality - it would still be good, but not at the same level as the 7D. After all, not even the 5dmkII has the same weather sealing as the 7D.

I'd be perfectly happy with a 1Dx sensor in a body with 60D build quality, if it came in under $2000.

Yep, I'll take that beastly sensor from the 1DX, even if the max ISO is neutered

 

[stipotle]

I think I started the $2500 thing - here is my thinking. It would seem unlikely that Canon would sell a 'better' camera than the 5dMKII for less money. We haven't seen any direct successors coming out cheaper than their replacements in quite a while.

Well, this camera would not be the direct successor to the 5dmkII, so it is entirely feasible that it would come out at a lower price.

The one thing I think would be missing on a cheap FF at this price point is build quality - it would still be good, but not at the same level as the 7D. After all, not even the 5dmkII has the same weather sealing as the 7D.

I'd be perfectly happy with a 1Dx sensor in a body with 60D build quality, if it came in under $2000.

Yep, I'll take that beastly sensor from the 1DX, even if the max ISO is neutered

+1000
please please please.

 

[bbasiaga]

I'd be perfectly happy with a 1Dx sensor in a body with 60D build quality, if it came in under $2000.

That would be the best case for me too. I hear folks speculate on Rebel type build...not sure I'd want that. I'm too spoiled by the controls of the xD and xxD series.

-Brian

 

[kennephoto]

Heres my question. I really want to get into full frame do I buy a 5d2 now before they are gone because its a great camera or wait for this potential new entry full frame. I shoot everything, and currently I make my 50 and 40d work but I just really want to have a full frame digital! I wonder how the new entry full frame will compare to the 5d2.

 

[Aglet]

Let's be wishing for a $1500-1700 new FF with the 7D's AF system.
We may as well dream farther in the desirable direction considering price point rumor of D600 is lower.

As for the 7D's AF system, I had trouble with mine too, but it wasn't the camera or 100-400mm L lens, it coulda been me, thinking the group of AF points/expansion would work better for tracking small fast objects. NOPE!
Now using spot AF with almost 100% hit rate even with that long slow lens. Still use expansion mode for tracking larger subjects.
Play with it and practice, read the manual. Unless there's a hardware problem, the AF on this thing is pretty darn good. I've started catching insects in flight at times now, If I can keep the AF point on them (dang zig-zaggin' dragonflies!). Haven't tried any of my Nik's yet to see if they can AF this well, but I got them for landscapin.'

 

[mathino]

Heres my question. I really want to get into full frame do I buy a 5d2 now before they are gone because its a great camera or wait for this potential new entry full frame. I shoot everything, and currently I make my 50 and 40d work but I just really want to have a full frame digital! I wonder how the new entry full frame will compare to the 5d2.

Hi,

in your case I would wait a little longer to see if new FF will meet your needs (in terms of specs and build). Im sure that even after announcement 5D Mk II will be available for some time. You should take a look at some lens as well, you have only one EF lens (unless you want to keep them with 40D or 50D) for future FF.

 

[kennephoto]

Mathino thanks for your input, I do hope the 5d2s will be around for a while even if this next FF will be a few months from shipping after announcement. I plan to buy the new FF as a kit or the 5d2 as a kit. And I am very open to selling my efs lenses, but we will see since I plan on keeping my 50d for backup.

 

[mathino]

Mathino thanks for your input, I do hope the 5d2s will be around for a while even if this next FF will be a few months from shipping after announcement. I plan to buy the new FF as a kit or the 5d2 as a kit. And I am very open to selling my efs lenses, but we will see since I plan on keeping my 50d for backup.

Heh, same situation I want to move to FF, can hold off (no rush for now) so I can check rumored new FF and decide. Ive got only EF lenses (except 18-55) so I wont need to buy/sell any of my lenses 24-105 f/4L IS is a good lens for FF.

5D Mk IIs wont just disappear after announcement of new product (after Canon discontinuing it) - they could be in stock at various retailers/sellers. And new FF could be delayed after announcement - even months (see 1D-X for example). Canon needs to sell all produced 5D Mk IIs.

 

[kennephoto]

I don't have a problem buying and selling lenses I do it all the time. And I guess I didn't know if the 5d2 was discontinued or not after the 5d3 came out, I never really paid attention to that. I just hope the new FF isn't gonna be less features or performance in some areas of the 5d2 and better in others. I guess time will tell.