Armando Ferreira: Testing out the NEW Canon EOS R5 in a real world production environment.

dtaylor

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Jul 26, 2011
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I don't know if it's just a simple limitation like in other cameras that you can work around. I wanted to buy R6 but then I cancelled my preorder and will wait for more tests. For now is seems that it overheats even in 4k24p and the second problem is that it cools down really really long even if you take out battery, lens and put it in the fridge. X-T4 for example overheats in 4k60 and 4k24p is not a big problem for Fuji. Even when it overheats then after 10-15 minutes it's ready to go. So for run and gun situation, for short documentaries during holiday in warm climate I see R6 overheating as a big problem which cannot be bypassed. I am doing short clips but even then R6 will overheat as heat build up time is faster than cooling down. It's a real pity as everything else about this camera is just perfect. X-T4 has many other flaws that are infuriating but I can overcome those at least.
Those are fair points. I'd still like to know if the R6 overheating goes away with an external recorder. That's a fair compromise IMHO for someone who is getting the R6 as a serious video tool. But if you are interested in video it makes sense to wait on both bodies for more testing.
 

David - Sydney

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My 5DSr has the option of still files in small, medium, and large RAW. Does R5 have this? My Z6 has an intervalometer, but it only works for shooting time delay video. Does the R5 intervalometer work with single still RAW? My Pentax K1 records RAW stills in Pentax format or in the universal DNG. What file types and sizes are available with R5? I have lots of questions like this. Canon is keeping such information secret, and the reviewers are not saying a word about it. That's what really blisters me. I preordered the R5 at first opportunity, so I am not complaining about the camera. For sure, the camera will never overheat shooting 8K as long as I own it, but that is the sort of crappy information I am hammered with.
The R5 will use CRAW instead of SRAW/MRAW options. Introduced with the M50 and also on the EOR R. Both compressed and non-compressed raw are .CR3 files. The comparisons online (petapixel, DRP, TDP, fstpotters etc) shows a small difference in the shadows. I won't use CRAW by default - especially for landscape/underwater but will for events where I am likely to exceed 1600-1800 shots on a 128GB card in a session.
 

Quarkcharmed

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This post has some initial findings regarding Photographic Dynamic Range DR ( Bill Claff's www.photonstophotos.net ), and it looks very promising.
It certainly does but it's not PTP's measurements - this guy just used the same method on random shots. It should probably be a special setup/scene which he didn't have. So I'd treat the data as very very preliminary.
But again from the DPR studio scene shots the R5 looks very good.
 

FrenchFry

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Jun 14, 2020
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Just watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video on the R5 AF.

I'm confused a little as Tony was 'blown away' but Chelsea complained of EVF blackout and overheating when taking stills and the battery running out after an hour?? They were using an RF adapter a very big EF lens and a 2x converter so may have affected things.

Funny how none of the Canon Ambassadors complained of EVF lag in both Mechanical 12 FPS or Electronic 20FPS. on the contrary, they all said the EVF was close to a DSLR view finder in performance and none said anything about overheating when taking stills or the battery running out after an hours shooting.

Something smells a bit fishy here and doesn't make sense. Surely the Canon ambassadors wouldn't tell outright lies. I know they cant be completely honest but come on???
I was a bit concerned after seeing that part of the review. I am hoping that there were some non-optimal settings used, and that the issues mentioned could be addressed via using different settings and a more modern lens. The teleconverter can't help either.
I really hope there was some sort of user error going on there as this set of composites would be a huge disappointment if true. It just seems odd that none of the other reviewers seem to have noticed these problems...
 
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David - Sydney

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If anyone is like me and can't remember the EOS R5 heat time limits for which video mode, or are struggling to decide on which expensive CFExpress card size suits them for recording times; I put this spreadsheet together.

Information on Bitrates from DPReview and the heat limitations from the 'Canon's Statement on Overheating' article on this site. Please note this is for the R5 only.

View attachment 191576
Great table! What does this say the CFe card write speeds need to be? I have seen a big difference between rated speed and average write speed in some specs. I haven't seen any authorised cards yet for the R5... the closest is the 1DX (under burst rate) and for some reason the Sandisk 128BG CFe card is not authorised yet it is rated at 1200MB/s
 
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Starting out EOS R

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Some people are calling for a product recall already.
Think it's a bit early for a product recall as the production units haven't even reached the public and the one's sent out to press etc have some really varying reports. Some say they have had no issues then there are others that had had overheating as expected, others like Mrs Northrup who said she had horrendous issues in every area.

Surely Canon wouldn't launch something if it was as bad as Chelsea said it was. Looking at her review again, I do wonder if there are user issues, what firmware was she using for the lenses, what state was the battery in before shooting, what setting was she using on AF, auto, self selection etc etc.

You may be right but I hope not. :eek:
 
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HenryL

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Great table! What does this say the CFe card write speeds need to be? I have seen a big difference between rated speed and average write speed in some specs. I haven't seen any authorised cards yet for the R5... the closest is the 1DX (under burst rate) and for some reason the Sandisk 128BG CFe card is not authorised yet it is rated at 1200MB/s
Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.
 

Go Wild

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Think it's a bit early for a product recall as the production units haven't even reached the public and the one's sent out to press etc have some really varying reports. Some say they have had no issues then there are others that had had overheating as expected, others like Mrs Northrup who said she had horrendous issues in every area.

Surely Canon wouldn't launch something if it was as bad as Chelsea said it was. Looking at her review again, I do wonder if there are user issues, what firmware was she using for the lenses, what state was the battery in before shooting, what setting was she using on AF, auto, self selection etc etc.

You may be right but I hope not. :eek:
I can be wrong (I HOPE i am not wrong....) but this can´t be right! All the reviews i am seing with "normal" users in Japan they are showing tests of the EOS R5 with no issues. Just the "normal" overheating with the recording times like the times send by Canon. So it was with total surprise that I saw this "report" from EOSHD! But.....Let´s not forget they are usually Sony fans....Northrup from the beginning just tries to discredit the R5 and now it seems they are trying the good cop, bad cop! It can be a possibility that Chelsea was working with a defective body let´s not forget those are pre-production units. No one and literally no one is pointing any issue with lagging!

About that problem pointed of the overheating all the unbiased youtube videos that I see they say what Canon says. Yes there is overheating in the camera after the times that canon says, but if you record regular 4k even after the shutdown, camera will record normally. With 4k (HQ disabled) camera records just normal!

This is why I more and more starting to NOT WATCH most part of the youtubers. They simply lie, are biased and most of them they don´tknow what they are talking! I remember the EOS R. At the beginning wow...It was a terrible camera...after 1 year and after "regular" youtubers started to send reviews to internet...."erghh...well it´s not so bad afterall"....

It can happen some problems with the first units. Thats totally possible, but what this guy ( A Sony user) from EOS HD is saying is that Canon is ordering a total recall because a fatal error of the cameras! We know Canon for years! Do you guys really think Canon would send to the market a total defective product?? NO!
It´s so strange because no one is talking about this kind of issue and of course not because cameras will only be released for sale on the 30 this month at least in Europe. No one has this camera yet unless you live in Japan.

This article is a complete slam in the EOS R5 and R6 and I guess it´s just "hate"....We will see more coming with the approach of the A7s3.

I wont buy any opinion of this guys and I will be more than HAPPY to prove they are wrong once I have my EOS R5 in hands!

Such a stupid article....

EDIT: I put here a link to a video on youtube. A user is testing the EOS R5 overheating in 4k HQ and with HQ off continued to film normally. The video sucks but we can see that there is no problems with the camera:

 
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koenkooi

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Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.
On the Prograde website they handwave about that, paraphrasing it a bit: "Hey, the Cobalt range gets 1700MB/s write speeds and more than 400MB/s sustained".
I went with a Sony Tough 128G CFe card, I hope that's fast enough for 8k RAW. Which I'll likely use once and decide that 4k HQ is good enough :)
 
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HenryL

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On the Prograde website they handwave about that, paraphrasing it a bit: "Hey, the Cobalt range gets 1700MB/s write speeds and more than 400MB/s sustained".
I went with a Sony Tough 128G CFe card, I hope that's fast enough for 8k RAW. Which I'll likely use once and decide that 4k HQ is good enough :)
Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though. :oops:

FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.
 

koenkooi

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Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though. :oops:

FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.
Canon USA has a knowledge base article for the 6k in the 1dx3, I used that to decide on the card to get. I would’ve preferred a Sandisk, but the 512G is too much after the R5 + grip being a lot more expensive than expected here in the Netherlands.
 

Starting out EOS R

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I can be wrong (I HOPE i am not wrong....) but this can´t be right! All the reviews i am seing with "normal" users in Japan they are showing tests of the EOS R5 with no issues. Just the "normal" overheating with the recording times like the times send by Canon. So it was with total surprise that I saw this "report" from EOSHD! But.....Let´s not forget they are usually Sony fans....Northrup from the beginning just tries to discredit the R5 and now it seems they are trying the good cop, bad cop! It can be a possibility that Chelsea was working with a defective body let´s not forget those are pre-production units. No one and literally no one is pointing any issue with lagging!

About that problem pointed of the overheating all the unbiased youtube videos that I see they say what Canon says. Yes there is overheating in the camera after the times that canon says, but if you record regular 4k even after the shutdown, camera will record normally. With 4k (HQ disabled) camera records just normal!

This is why I more and more starting to NOT WATCH most part of the youtubers. They simply lie, are biased and most of them they don´tknow what they are talking! I remember the EOS R. At the beginning wow...It was a terrible camera...after 1 year and after "regular" youtubers started to send reviews to internet...."erghh...well it´s not so bad afterall"....

It can happen some problems with the first units. Thats totally possible, but what this guy ( A Sony user) from EOS HD is saying is that Canon is ordering a total recall because a fatal error of the cameras! We know Canon for years! Do you guys really think Canon would send to the market a total defective product?? NO!
It´s so strange because no one is talking about this kind of issue and of course not because cameras will only be released for sale on the 30 this month at least in Europe. No one has this camera yet unless you live in Japan.

This article is a complete slam in the EOS R5 and R6 and I guess it´s just "hate"....We will see more coming with the approach of the A7s3.

I wont buy any opinion of this guys and I will be more than HAPPY to prove they are wrong once I have my EOS R5 in hands!

Such a stupid article....

EDIT: I put here a link to a video on youtube. A user is testing the EOS R5 overheating in 4k HQ and with HQ off continued to film normally. The video sucks but we can see that there is no problems with the camera:

I'm of the same mind as you, I don't think there are as many issues as some of the You tubers are saying. I think under normal use eg 4k30p there are no overheating issues and let's be honest, most You tube videos are currently filmed in 1080p and are likely to continue that way for a while.

I've just watched a video by a contributor called the Ordinary Film Maker. His experience with the R5 is mainly video so doesn't match what I do which is mainly stills but it is interesting that he has used all of the video modes, including over 2 hours of 4k30p and several clips in 8K with no overheating. His main issue isn't with the camera, it's with his own computer being able to cope with the bigger files and amount of data to render before he can edit it. He confirmed he is still going ahead with his R5 order.

This guy isn't a Canon fanboy and has been quite honest about his doubts but I do think his reviews are more realistic than some of the other reviews that are a little hysterical and biased.

Overall, I've got to stop watching so many videos and make my own mind up when it arrives lol. :D
 
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Go Wild

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I'm of the same mind as you, I don't think there are as many issues as some of the You tubers are saying. I think under normal use eg 4k30p there are no overheating issues and let's be honest, most You tube videos are currently filmed in 1080p and are likely to continue that way for a while.

I've just watched a video by a contributor called the Ordinary Film Maker. His experience with the R5 is mainly video so doesn't match what I do which is mainly stills but it is interesting that he has used all of the video modes, including over 2 hours of 4k30p and several clips in 8K with no overheating. His main issue isn't with the camera, it's with his own computer being able to cope with the bigger files and amount of data to render before he can edit it. He confirmed he is still going ahead with his R5 order.

This guy isn't a Canon fanboy and has been quite honest about his doubts but I do think his reviews are more realistic than some of the other reviews that are a little historical and biased.

Overall, I've got to stop watching so many videos and make my own mind up when it arrives lol. :D

Well thats the big point here! Biased and unfair reviews! In these days it looks like so easy to criticize....I think they are making a big splash out of this and for nothing! Of course we all could wish no overheating, that was the perfect scenario. But...What could Canon do for that? To introduce a fan? Could you imagine the photographers reaction? Why the hell they would buy a bigger camera with a fan? This cameras from canon are really, really attractive to both worlds! And of course it must have some caveats...The thing is to check those caveats and to make your assessment: "Is this camera good for me or no?" After this you just buy or not! But to slam one camera just because one thing??? Ohh man....And it´s really not a big deal at least for most of the users! And if it is....either you dont buy or try to solve the problem. I read that the EOS R5 with an atomos ninja V can record 4k HQ up to 3h without overheating! So my problems are just solved! :D Only need to be careful with 4k120fps.

After solving problems....You get a terrific stills camera!! You get a terrific video camera! Boy, what can you want more...? If even so....you think this camera wont fit your purposes....Well....the 1dx mkIII can solve the problems.
 

tron

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This has been true of Canon cameras for years. Tony Northrup said the AF is now "better than Sony" which was probably the only lingering question for stills shooters moving to mirrorless. (And for him to say that you know it's good.) What other questions are there?

High ISO? Dominated by photon shot noise which is not subject to tech. There's about a 1ev difference between the worst and best FF sensors of the past decade, and the R5 will be near the top (best) of that. So comparable to a 5D4 or 1DX3, and about 0.5ev - 0.66ev better than the 5Ds/sR.

DR? At least as good as the 5D4, possibly 0.5-1ev better based on a Canon statement. Which would put it 1-2ev better than a 5Ds/sR.

Real world resolution/sharpness? The R5 samples are gorgeous and have the same phenomenally detailed/sharp look of the 5Ds and 5DsR samples from 5 years ago. AlanF will no doubt tease out any differences of the AA R5 45mp sensor versus the AA-less 5DsR 50mp sensor, but for 99% of people it's a moot point because the R5's IQ is simply excellent.

If you want to go high resolution 35mm and money is no object, buy an R5. If you want to go high resolution 35mm and money is an issue, go on eBay and pickup a new, gray market 5Ds for $1,100 (occasionally they drop to $1,000). With one the AF point magically follows your subject and you get live exposure preview. With the other you have to follow your subject and you get longer battery life. Otherwise they just work.
And he would be right to do so! Attached is a screenshot courtesy of DPREVIEW comparisons.
 

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tron

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But yes on principle I agree that ALL mentioned Canon cameras will just work!

This is the way Canon cameras are made.
 
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AlanF

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And he would be right to do so! Attached is a screenshot courtesy of DPREVIEW comparisons.
The R5 would be good enough for me - 45 Mpx is a nice compromise between huge file sizes and resolution. From what I can see from the dpr comparisons and elsewhere, the 5DSR and Nikon D850/Z7 are very close together in resolution, and sightly better than the R5. I agree with dstaylor that the R5 does the tracking for you but doing it yourself is a proven approach that also works.
 
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David - Sydney

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Always keep in mind that the important number for storage here is minimum sustained write speed. The write speed on the label is typically not that, it's usually a maximum burst speed, a different animal altogether. Unfortunately the minimum sustained speed is rarely found on spec lists, especially for cards that don't have a very good one.
ProGrade Cobalt 325GB; Lexar 256 and 128 GB cards.
Max speed, size, avg speed
600MB/s Gold 120GB => Avg 145MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 256GB => 350MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 512GB-1T => 500MB/s
1400MB/s Cobalt 325GB => 1300MB/s
The avg to max speed difference is huge from 25% to 50% for gold but cobalt is pretty close to max. Only the Cobalt is approved for use on 1DXiii

Sandisk write speeds with no mention of sustained/average speed! link is:
shop.westerndigital.com/products/memory-cards/sandisk-extreme-pro-cfexpress-type-b#SDCFE-064G-ANCIN
64GB 800 MB/s
128/256GB 1200 MB/s
512GB 1400 MB/s

Lexar. I can't find a datasheet for them... only 64GB — 512GB Up to 1750MB/s read, up to 1000MB/s write.
If Lexar 128/256GB cards are okay for the 1DXiii (assumed) 1000MB/s then why aren't the Sandisk 128/256GB included?

Sony Tough 128/256GB up to 1480MB/s
=> I can't imagine Canon approving a Sony card publicly :)
 

David - Sydney

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Sorry I can't find it at the moment, but I want to say I saw a table over the weekend that included Sony cards as supporting 8K. Don't quote me on that though. :oops:

FWIW, the ProGrade Cobalt series have a sustained write speed of 1400MB/s. The Gold is the series that has a 400MB/s sustained speed.
Minor correction... cobalt is 1400MB/s but average speed is 1300MB/s as per their spec sheet which is close to max speed. Gold average speeds are significantly slower than max speed.
600MB/s Gold 120GB => Avg 145MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 256GB => 350MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 512GB-1T => 500MB/s

The Sony CFe card states 1480MB/s max write speed but I can't see a spec sheet for average speed for them. I'm going to wait until Canon releases a list of supported CFe cards before buying but it seems unlikely to me that Canon will publicly authorise a Sony card.