Bingo! New Canon 5Ds has 50.6 MP new rumored specs

[privatebydesign]

If a pop up flash is the only way to get the shot, why bother pushing the shutter button at all?

This is my philosophy as well. There are some pretty heated posts here making responding in a rational manner difficult.

Couldn't agree with you both more..................

 

[Lee Jay]

If a pop up flash is the only way to get the shot, why bother pushing the shutter button at all?

This is my philosophy as well. There are some pretty heated posts here making responding in a rational manner difficult. I have to ask though; how many people here that are advocates for pop-up flash are even using a 5 or 1 series and are even interested in this upcoming camera?

I use a 5 series, and I bought a Sunpak RD2000 because my 5D doesn't have a pop up flash.

I would be interested in this camera if it weren't for the poor high ISO range and the presumed color filter choice that caused it. I shoot less than 15% of my shots at ISO 100. I shoot more above ISO 1600 than at ISO 100. I'll wait for the 5DIV.

 

[benperrin]

I use a 5 series, and I bought a Sunpak RD2000 because my 5D doesn't have a pop up flash.

I would be interested in this camera if it weren't for the poor high ISO range and the presumed color filter choice that caused it. I shoot less than 15% of my shots at ISO 100. I shoot more above ISO 1600 than at ISO 100. I'll wait for the 5DIV.

Fair enough. I'll admit, I'm at ISO 100 about 90-95% of the time so the 5ds is probably more suited to my needs than yours. I may also purchase a 5d4 down the track though specifically for event photography. Of course we have no idea what this camera is actually capable of yet.

 

[RayValdez360]

I love how there is like 2 pages talking about flashes. I want to see more info about this camera not flashes. Take that shit to the lighting forum. Is pop up pro or not, who cares.

 

[kphoto99]

Besides, if Canon considered it a pro feature it would, by necessity, be on every pro camera they made, yet it has never been on one of them, ever, do you think that might be because a pop up flash is not a 'pro' feature?

Based on your logic a RT commander is not pro since it is not included in any pro cameras.

Canon does not have it on "pro" cameras because they want to sell a separate flash to the "pros".
Don't confuse pro features with Canons desire to extract more money.

 

[kphoto99]

If a pop up flash is the only way to get the shot, why bother pushing the shutter button at all?

This is my philosophy as well. There are some pretty heated posts here making responding in a rational manner difficult.

Couldn't agree with you both more..................

So basically any newsworthy pictures taken by a photojournalist do not qualify for being taken if a pop up flash is involved. (No, I don't have any examples) Or are photojournalists not pros?

 

[RLPhoto]

If a pop up flash was the work around to get in-body RT transmission, full steam ahead. I'd love one.

For awhile, on the 7D, I only used the pop-up as a transmitter and it was a temp job until I got RT flashes. I'd rather over expose and process than attempt to use a harsh direct pop-up flash in 99% of situations. The other 1 percent was when I didn't matter and/or to use the horrible burst focus assist. Eh, pop-ups are expendable for me but if somehow it had a little roller on top to turn the bulb for the tiniest bounce, it would be really useful.

 

[Loswr]

But I also use the 5D cameras for family, vacation, and personal photography. For those, a pop up flash is so essential that not having one was such a loss that I went out and bought a crummy, inconvenient replacement. But it's better than the nothing that the camera came with, and also the nothing I would carry on vacation without it.

Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference. 100% of my photography is, "...family vacation and personal." For those, a pop-up flash is so useless that I didn't use it even when my dSLR had one. If a pop up flash is the only way to get the shot, why bother pushing the shutter button at all? Failing to plan is planning to fail. If making good images is a priority, bring a real flash. If simple documentation is the goal, and the 'deer in the headlights' look is acceptable, a smartphone camera or P&S will do as well (or even better, since that would avoid the shadow cast by many lenses when a pop-up flash is used).

That's just so wrong, on so many levels.

Not carrying a 580EX means I can carry my 35/1.4L. Since the flash is only used for fill (basically, ever), and the 35L is used for all sorts of things, the 35L wins easily. So I have to carry either no flash or a flash I can carry along with the 35L, and that means a little tiny inconvenient flash I don't really like, or a pop up.

Lenses are generally more important to me than flashes, so I'm not giving up a lens to carry a fancy flash. For those times I know I'm going to need a fancy flash (or two, or three), I carry another bag with my lighting kit. But that's not a vacation thing since it's 5 times the size of my camera bag.

I prioritize bringing good light with me if I'll need it. Even a 600EX doesn't add much to a bag, IMO...I don't omit a lens I'll need to take a flash, I bring both. The weight/space doesn't bother me, but shots with crappy lighting do bother me.


But ultimately:

Obviously, it's a matter of personal preference.

That's just so wrong, on so many levels.

I believe you're clearly in the wrong, on so many levels.

 

[takesome1]

The pop up flash argument for this body is ridiculous.

Besides 5Ds is going to have so much DR you will not need a flash. Just slide the shadow bar in LR and all is solved.

 

[PureClassA]

Wow. Well so much for the OLPF debate... I tried. Everyone seems more interested in fighting over a pop up flash. Unreal. If anyone would care to raise the bar, go back a couple pages and read the post about the 5D3 with the AA removed

 

[Arkarch]

Wow. Well so much for the OLPF debate... I tried. Everyone seems more interested in fighting over a pop up flash. Unreal. If anyone would care to raise the bar, go back a couple pages and read the post about the 5D3 with the AA removed

I did see your post. But right now the flood of pop-up flash debate on a 5DS thread is, as you noted, obscuring other conversation. I'll wait a bit.

 

[ScottyP]

So I found this to make things interesting. James Miller is a cinema/video guy in the UK who now works some with Philip Bloom. Apparently Miller tore down his 5D3 a couple years back and ditched the AA filter. Here's what he got:

http://www.eoshd.com/2012/03/james-miller-removes-optical-low-pass-filter-from-5d-mark-iii-for-resolution-increase/

Obviously more detail without AA, but I can damn sure see the aliasing particularly in fine edges of pavement stripes and in the parked cars. Does the added detail (false, noise, real, otherwise) outweigh the use of the AA. Miller seems to think Canon "used too strong an AA" to begin with.

That said... This is a 22MP sensor. Now with an almost 250% increase in density... is aliasing really going to even be a factor? Using his own pictures and video in Brighton Beach, how much of that effect can we assume 50MP would mitigate on its own without the filter?

If medium format 50MP cameras are without an AA, could this body (the R) not also stand up the same way (granted there's an obvious sensor and pixel size difference)

Toss out your thoughts please! This would be a lot more interesting than pop-up flashes.... geez... come on guys!! :

I agree this is more interesting than pop up flash, .......so........... I BUMP THEE.

 

[privatebydesign]

If a pop up flash is the only way to get the shot, why bother pushing the shutter button at all?

This is my philosophy as well. There are some pretty heated posts here making responding in a rational manner difficult.

Couldn't agree with you both more..................

So basically any newsworthy pictures taken by a photojournalist do not qualify for being taken if a pop up flash is involved. (No, I don't have any examples) Or are photojournalists not pros?

That, the purple bit, is my point :

 

[ecqns]

I agree this is more interesting than pop up flash, .......so........... I BUMP THEE.

Thanks for cutting through that all engrossing pop up flash debate....
As a pro architectural photographer I've been waiting for this camera for a long long time. They could make the high iso 800 for all I care if 100 has clean shadows. I assumed I would get the AA filter version but this post above makes me wonder. Would I be better served by the R version if the 50mpx sensor doesn't add much moire? There are a lot of situations with repeating patterns in building materials.

 

[Loswr]

And you've never once hit upon a scenario where a backlit snap of some friends would not have turned out better with a touch of fill flash?? Never came upon, totally unexpectedly some animal at night on the way back?

I've certainly run across backlit situations needing fill flash...and I had a Speedlite with me. An animal at night...what, a house cat? Or maybe you think a popup flash would be useful with my 600/4? Or maybe a nice, close deer...really driving home my point about the 'deer in the headlights' look that sends the file straight to the trash can...except I wouldn't have even bothered taking the shot with direct onboard flash in darkness, popup or Speedlite.

This is not the final pose, angle, aperture or anything, which I can't post, but the test shot for emergency pop-up fill. Without the fill all the faces were shadowed and dark and not at all balanced to the background.

As I said, failing to plan is planning to fail. Nice that the popup flash may have saved you, but if you needed saving it was due to a lack of proper preparation.

 

[Loswr]

Wow. Well so much for the OLPF debate... I tried. Everyone seems more interested in fighting over a pop up flash. Unreal. If anyone would care to raise the bar, go back a couple pages and read the post about the 5D3 with the AA removed

Well, that was all done to death when it was fresh news and the D800 vs. D800E was the hot topic. Yes, you could certainly get moiré with an AA-less 50 MP sensor. You'd get it with higher frequency detail (smaller repeating patterns) than with a 22 MP sensor.

 

[benperrin]

Thanks for cutting through that all engrossing pop up flash debate....
As a pro architectural photographer I've been waiting for this camera for a long long time. They could make the high iso 800 for all I care if 100 has clean shadows. I assumed I would get the AA filter version but this post above makes me wonder. Would I be better served by the R version if the 50mpx sensor doesn't add much moire? There are a lot of situations with repeating patterns in building materials.

This is something I'm certainly interested in talking about. Also once some post sharpening is applied do people think that the s version can match the r? Or is the r still going to maintain an advantage? Can't wait to see some real world examples.

 

[PureClassA]

Ok... but how much mitigation would 50MP deliver to aliasing? Obviously as Neuro pointed out it would reduce the visual effects. But how close would the aliasing on a 50MP no-OLPF sensor be to the 22MP 5D3 sensor WITH OLPF? If the size/appearance of aliasing is reduced by, say, 250%, equivalent to the increase in pixel density... the 5DR may have aliasing and moire so small than it becomes insignificant. Maybe not in EVERY scenario, but perhaps in far more than now?

 

[PureClassA]

I agree this is more interesting than pop up flash, .......so........... I BUMP THEE.

Thanks for cutting through that all engrossing pop up flash debate....
As a pro architectural photographer I've been waiting for this camera for a long long time. They could make the high iso 800 for all I care if 100 has clean shadows. I assumed I would get the AA filter version but this post above makes me wonder. Would I be better served by the R version if the 50mpx sensor doesn't add much moire? There are a lot of situations with repeating patterns in building materials.

That's what I'm wondering. I agree the lack of AA on the 5D3 James Miller modified was HARSH, but it also removed a notable amount of mush. Even the video looked stunningly different! Seemed like the "wax" video output was suddenly gone, granted with a dose of aliasing.

So will 50MP aliasing be sooooo small that short of really, really pixel peeping to ridiculous levels, it will be overwhelmingly unnoticeable? Aliasing is from, more or less, a lack of resolving power. Does 50MP largely cure this ill? Does it cure it so largely than any minor remaining effects CAN truly be effectively dealt with in post? One wonders....

 

[PureClassA]

Ok... but how much mitigation would 50MP deliver to aliasing? Obviously as Neuro pointed out it would reduce the visual effects. But how close would the aliasing on a 50MP no-OLPF sensor be to the 22MP 5D3 sensor WITH OLPF? If the size/appearance of aliasing is reduced by, say, 250%, equivalent to the increase in pixel density... the 5DR may have aliasing and moire so small than it becomes insignificant. Maybe not in EVERY scenario, but perhaps in far more than now?

It won't be as bad, but I mean I don't think Canon put AA filters on the 50D,7D,60D,70D,7D2, etc. all just for kicks, they could have charged the same and made more profit by leaving the AA filter out on those.

I'm not sure, but maybe at 100MP FF I might start going for the AA-less?

Ok, I hear ya. But MF cameras like the 645z, Phase One, etc... no AA. Granted a bigger sensor. But 50MP. This is what has me wondering.