Canon confirms September 24, 2020 announcement for the Canon Cinema EOS C70

Stanly

EOS M50
Aug 5, 2020
47
20
www.youtube.com
Given those are CR2 rumors and don't directly mention this camera, I'll side with Codebunny and wait for further information before speculating on such sweeping judgements.
For me the point of rumors is to discuss technology and compare data, especially since most of it end up being true. I'm not finalizing buying decisions right now, just setting up expectations and deciding if it makes sense to wait for Canon to bring out something for hybrid shooters. If not for this site – I would've given up on Canon already. RF lenses are not worth the attitude Canon has towards it's customers with artificially limited specs.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
This is a (military?) night vision system not a camera for video production... the comparison is a bit off, dont you think? (Though very impressive).
In the "normal" world the A7s3 is certainly incredible in low light and quite possible the best video production camera for lowlight.

---

Our parent company has a much better one than the X27 and we use THAT one for video production. It's like people who buy $100,000+ Phantom 1000 fps High Speed cameras and use THOSE for commercials and cinematography. When a Red Camera or Arri Alexa-65 (rental only) setup starts gets into the $400,000 arena when you put on Zeiss Master Primes or Leica Summilux-C lens setup, who cares about price? Ya might as well buy the best-of-the-best!

And a $30,000 mil-spec nightvision camera CAN and has been used for pro-level video production (i.e. NatGeo wildlife documentaries, night skiiing, snowboarding, skydiving imagery, etc). You use whatever works for a given production. When your sensors starting getting above 20 microns per photosite with specialized photo-counting/photo-multiplier materials, full colour RGB nighvision at Midnight is as good as Daylight.

The only issue becomes the thermal and electrical floor noise of the sensor itself which can be mitigated by super-cooling the sensor with a liquid coolant, extensive DSP (Digital Signal Processing) and much larger photosites (i.e. into the 50 to 100 microns per photosite range!)

The only OTHER issue is that you need infrared and/or UV pass-through optics which means you need full EM band pass through QUARTZ lenses or plastic such as an Optically Clear Acrylic (still blocks UV-C band) or Aluminum Oxide ceramic such Sapphire (full UV and IR pass-through) which are very expensive compared to Fluorite Glass.

V
 
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Stanly

EOS M50
Aug 5, 2020
47
20
www.youtube.com
BTW, any idea what those are? Interchangeable mount? May be those rumored speedboosters and PL adapters actually screw into the body?
Untitled-1.jpg
 

mariosk1gr

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 4, 2019
82
61
don't we already konw what the sensor is capable of, given its already been used? (and assuming CR is right, and it always is right). a7siii is the low light winner for any consumer/prosumer/professional camera in the world, and i dont' think its even a competition. (i swithced from E to RF recently w/ the R5 so i'm not biased to sony in any way, but realistic).
You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...
 

DBounce

EOS RP
May 3, 2016
304
348
But will the C70 beat the a7siii for the independent filmmaker ?

-Dynamic range will be similar
-Portability will go to Sony
-Cine body functionalities will go to Canon
-Low Light for Sony
-Reliability will be a tie
-Ibis for sony

what about image quality ? Im torn when I see the c300mkii footage vs the a7siii one...
I wish this was sooner. I returned my Eos R5 because my feeling was it’s not really ready for serious video work. The C70 will likely be that camera, and will likely be serious competition to the Red Komodo 6K... but with usable AF and better compatibility with Canon glass.
I had ordered a Sony A7S3 on launch day, so I expect it to ship on the 24th. I might just pick this bad boy up also. The Sony was a pricey departure from my usual Canon bodies as I also needed to pick up an assortment of new glass and accessories. The C70 would be just another Canon body for me and would be perfect with my RF glass and spare C200 batteries. Not sure it would make sense to own both the C70 and the Sony? Plus... what did Canon leave out? I hate having to think that way... but here we are!
 
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DBounce

EOS RP
May 3, 2016
304
348
Let's see what the C70 is like before we start deciding that x or y will have better low light.
If it’s the C300 Mk3 sensor the Sony will top it. Questions remain about dynamic range as the A7S3 has not been independently tested. Colors still go to Canon... but the gap is closer than ever.
 

DBounce

EOS RP
May 3, 2016
304
348
You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...
Most people using Arri are controlling light. Not so much the case when shooting as a one man band with a mirrorless hybrid.
 
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melgross

EOS RP
Nov 2, 2016
755
497
This is a (military?) night vision system not a camera for video production... the comparison is a bit off, dont you think? (Though very impressive).
In the "normal" world the A7s3 is certainly incredible in low light and quite possible the best video production camera for lowlight.
The best cheap video camera.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
446
434
---

Our parent company has a much better one than the X27 and we use THAT one for video production. It's like people who buy $100,000+ Phantom 1000 fps High Speed cameras and use THOSE for commercials and cinematography. When a Red Camera or Arri Alexa-65 (rental only) setup starts gets into the $400,000 arena when you put on Zeiss Master Primes or Leica Summilux-C lens setup, who cares about price? Ya might as well buy the best-of-the-best!

And a $30,000 mil-spec nightvision camera CAN and has been used for pro-level video production (i.e. NatGeo wildlife documentaries, night skiiing, snowboarding, skydiving imagery, etc). You use whatever works for a given production. When your sensors starting getting above 20 microns per photosite with specialized photo-counting/photo-multiplier materials, full colour RGB nighvision at Midnight is as good as Daylight.

The only issue becomes the thermal and electrical floor noise of the sensor itself which can be mitigated by super-cooling the sensor with a liquid coolant, extensive DSP (Digital Signal Processing) and much larger photosites (i.e. into the 50 to 100 microns per photosite range!)

The only OTHER issue is that you need infrared and/or UV pass-through optics which means you need full EM band pass through QUARTZ lenses or plastic such as an Optically Clear Acrylic (still blocks UV-C band) or Aluminum Oxide ceramic such Sapphire (full UV and IR pass-through) which are very expensive compared to Fluorite Glass.

V
Ah okay, jeah on this level of quality its certainly true.Impressive stuff your company does btw :)
 

stevensteven

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 24, 2020
81
57
You can't compare a7s3 with c300iii sensor. a7s3 low light winner in "pro" camera world? Then let's abandon ARRI and RED and go buy sonys from now on! "TWO" different markets... how hard is to understand that? Omg what else are we going to hear these days...
Why are you bringing Arri into this ?
the C70 doesn’t compare to the ARRI. Far from it. It compares to the Komodo. Then to Sony, probably the fs6. But the truth is, it might even be beat by the a7siii. This is why we ask this question.
And being the most portable cine camera that canon will make, it does make sense to wonder if we should order the a7siii or wait for the c70...
How hard is it to understand that ?
 

bsbeamer

EOS RP
Nov 5, 2011
302
33
It would be a lost opportunity if the C70 didn't take stills...even if it was only 8MP.

Stills at 8MP might as well be some form of video still capture. Certainly hope this camera is capable of more than that...
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,637
1,984
Hamburg, Germany
For me the point of rumors is to discuss technology and compare data, especially since most of it end up being true. I'm not finalizing buying decisions right now, just setting up expectations and deciding if it makes sense to wait for Canon to bring out something for hybrid shooters. If not for this site – I would've given up on Canon already. RF lenses are not worth the attitude Canon has towards it's customers with artificially limited specs.
Nothing wrong with that. I worded it a bit poorly, I am not against speculation.

I think the wording by stevensteven was a bit strong, saying how things will be when the information available is not really solid enough yet. It reads a bit disingenuous if somebody wants to make a purchase and weight the pros and cons of their options, only to proclaim a winner for each of these before even having solid info on one of the contestants. That's maybe not the intent behind the post. But there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.
 

stevensteven

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 24, 2020
81
57
Nothing wrong with that. I worded it a bit poorly, I am not against speculation.

I think the wording by stevensteven was a bit strong, saying how things will be when the information available is not really solid enough yet. It reads a bit disingenuous if somebody wants to make a purchase and weight the pros and cons of their options, only to proclaim a winner for each of these before even having solid info on one of the contestants. That's maybe not the intent behind the post. But there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.

Understood. But I'm not part of the Sony cult. If I'm part of a cult, its the canon one. That's the reason why I'm here.
What tortures me right now though, is that being objective, Sony is offering the best video camera there is. The a7siii is undoubtedly better than the R5 for video (not referring to the overheating limits). I want to expand my RF collection, but seeing what canon is putting out, it doesn't seem the reasonable thing to do anymore.
When I compare the a7siii to the 70, its of course only speculation. That's why we're all here. because we accept the speculation. And as stated earlier, the c70 seems to be coming with the sensor of the c300iii, so this is what I base myself on. The a7siii and the c300iii are comaprable since they are two existing.
In theory, they shouldn't be comparable since one is a 4k mirrorless, and the other one is an 11k cine camera. But, to my distress, it seems that the images they are producing are indeed comparable. I might even be coming to the conclusion that the Sony produces a better image (10bit vs 10bit).
 
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marathonman

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Aug 29, 2016
149
723
For $6200. No IBIS no eyeAF, that's a hard pill to swallow.
I'll stick with my overheating R5
How do you know it has no eyeAF?
Somebody speculated that IBIS was unlikely due to the presence of built-in NDs. I'd be intrigued to know if that is a valid explanation.
 

Stanly

EOS M50
Aug 5, 2020
47
20
www.youtube.com
IBIS was unlikely due to the presence of built-in NDs
Cooling might also be a reason not to have IBIS.

there is a cult of Sony people that sometimes make it hard for me to disguish between genuine criticism of Canon and straight up declaring Sony superior for being Sony.
Every cult is like that :D I've also read a theory about Sony users mostly coming from other brands so they are willing to criticize more (including Sony itself) while most Canon / Nikon / Panasonic shooters being more accustomed and less tempted to question / argue certain brand decisions.

Anyhow, I am personally waiting for Canon to have a reliable hybrid RF camera to switch to Canon. Many people on this forum consider hybrid cameras some sort of a poor mans cinema camera compromise, which is not the case. There are many occasions and workflows where hybrid is the only solution. If Canon would've fixed R5 – we would probably get it + 3 lenses by the end of the year, as well as c70 and another lens before the end of spring. If Canon is going to remain silent on R5 and just release a bunch of these cinema cameras – I can't imagine switching )=