Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L II Mention [CR2]

Great discussion about street ethics, goals, etc. Seriously.

Now, does anybody doubt a 50mm 1.2 with beautiful bokeh, fast, ACCURATE AF, and weather resistance would be fantastic for street photography???
 
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As I remember, Cartier-Bresson very rarely presented 'street' pictures from France where casual people could be recognized. His best known street shots are the boy with the bottles and the girl with baguettes. Other than that, he photographed Albert Camus, Henri Mathisse, Truman Capote and other celebrities on town and at home casually, but with the subject totally aware that he/she was being photographed.
His famous 'street' photos are from Latin America, China and Soviet Russia.
Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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YuengLinger said:
Great discussion about street ethics, goals, etc. Seriously.

Now, does anybody doubt a 50mm 1.2 with beautiful bokeh, fast, ACCURATE AF, and weather resistance would be fantastic for street photography???

Depends. Again, see prior comments. If you are talking to your subject and being social, bring a howitzer -- you're fine.

But if you are shooting discreetly, I think size matters. Compare a FF 50 prime against a crop mirrorless 50 equivalent. I recognize the DOF will be different with the smaller sensor, but I think I'd rather shoot that kind of street work with the smaller rig.

- A
 

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martti said:
8) The one on the right is for pussies!
The one on the left would go nicely with my HumVee...why don't they make the 5DIII/24-70 combo in camouflage?

(actually I drive a SubaruXV and my other camera is a Sony a6000 and I think a good point is being made)

Martti's preferred street shooting rig is below. :D

- A
 

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ahsanford said:
martti said:
8) The one on the right is for pussies!
The one on the left would go nicely with my HumVee...why don't they make the 5DIII/24-70 combo in camouflage?

(actually I drive a SubaruXV and my other camera is a Sony a6000 and I think a good point is being made)

Martti's preferred street shooting rig is below. :D

- A

I know a guy in India who happily shoots 'street' with his 500 f4 IS. He has a specific style and it works for him.
 
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I imagine his 'style' involves the use of trained pachyderms...sounds like a guy who does not poop under the stars as so many people from that subcontinent do, with the risk of getting raped...
From BBC: "A 2011 census showed that nearly half of the Indian population had no access to a latrine, meaning more than 500 million people were defecating in the open. "

Nearest I've been to India was in Sri Lanka, before the civil war...I have invitations, though.
Once I run out of polite excuses, I'll go...
 
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YuengLinger said:
Ok, then, what is a great 50mm good for?

Anything you want. A 50 prime's uses are myriad.

I'm just saying that street shooting -- depending on how you do it -- might require some caution. Pull out something like this (see TDP pic) in the middle of a city somewhere and folks might get gunshy or outright confrontational.

That said, shoot what you want with it. No one's implying anyone is using their gear when/where they shouldn't. :)

- A
 

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privatebydesign said:
Memdroid said:
Street photography is about socializing and absolutely not about taking sneaky pictures. You are no paparazzi. You have to interact with the subjects, joke around, hear their stories, get to know them a little and be a part of it.

No, for you street photography is about socializing, for many others it isn't. For many the thought of interacting with the subject completely destroys any authenticity to their work, and to others being in peoples faces is what the genre is about. 'Street photography' can be pretty much anything to anybody and covers the broadest range of self imposed criteria and techniques.

But if you are shooting that way, and not getting any signed releases...what use is it anyway? I mean..you can't sell it. Ok, possibly for editorial use, but still....if you're shooting street for $$...you're gonna need to be getting releases too, in which case you will have to interact with the subject(s)....and hence, the no more "sneaky" part of the equation..
 
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cayenne said:
privatebydesign said:
Memdroid said:
Street photography is about socializing and absolutely not about taking sneaky pictures. You are no paparazzi. You have to interact with the subjects, joke around, hear their stories, get to know them a little and be a part of it.

No, for you street photography is about socializing, for many others it isn't. For many the thought of interacting with the subject completely destroys any authenticity to their work, and to others being in peoples faces is what the genre is about. 'Street photography' can be pretty much anything to anybody and covers the broadest range of self imposed criteria and techniques.

But if you are shooting that way, and not getting any signed releases...what use is it anyway? I mean..you can't sell it. Ok, possibly for editorial use, but still....if you're shooting street for $$...you're gonna need to be getting releases too, in which case you will have to interact with the subject(s)....and hence, the no more "sneaky" part of the equation..

I may be wrong, but I don't think you have to have a release when you're photographing someone on a "public" street. There have been photographers that's been sued for selling their street photography that included subjects/people that didn't want to be in the pic, but none of those suits stood up in court because the images were taking on a "public" street.
I believe the reason street photographers (me included) like to be incognito is so they can catch people in their natural habitat being normal; being themselves in the raw. When people see someone with a camera pointing at them, they tend to tense up and act different.
 
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I don't do much street... But I do have to agree that people are at their most human when they aren't playing for the camera.

Is there much of a market for street photography? I can't imagine saying,I want this photo of this stranger.
 
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cayenne said:
privatebydesign said:
Memdroid said:
Street photography is about socializing and absolutely not about taking sneaky pictures. You are no paparazzi. You have to interact with the subjects, joke around, hear their stories, get to know them a little and be a part of it.

No, for you street photography is about socializing, for many others it isn't. For many the thought of interacting with the subject completely destroys any authenticity to their work, and to others being in peoples faces is what the genre is about. 'Street photography' can be pretty much anything to anybody and covers the broadest range of self imposed criteria and techniques.

But if you are shooting that way, and not getting any signed releases...what use is it anyway? I mean..you can't sell it. Ok, possibly for editorial use, but still....if you're shooting street for $$...you're gonna need to be getting releases too, in which case you will have to interact with the subject(s)....and hence, the no more "sneaky" part of the equation..

Of course you can sell street images without releases, 'art' prints and books are two popular ways, editorial is poorly paid but another avenue. Indeed pretty much the only thing you can't do with it is use it for commercial advertising. In all the time I have been shooting I have had one image that an advertiser wanted to use but couldn't because of the lack of a release.

For many years Steve McCurry said that he never got releases and he rarely does even today, 'The Afghan Girl' did not have a model release and has made him millions. Same with practically all of those familiar named environmental story telling photographers that often cross over into conflict and war in more troubling times, like James Nachtwey and so many others.

Then take a look at the likes of Bruce Gilden who relish the in your face conflict of 'traditional' street shooting and never get releases. Personally I hate the guys attitude and work but it is a style and he is prolific and popular and he never gets a release.
 
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ReggieABrown said:
cayenne said:
privatebydesign said:
Memdroid said:
Street photography is about socializing and absolutely not about taking sneaky pictures. You are no paparazzi. You have to interact with the subjects, joke around, hear their stories, get to know them a little and be a part of it.

No, for you street photography is about socializing, for many others it isn't. For many the thought of interacting with the subject completely destroys any authenticity to their work, and to others being in peoples faces is what the genre is about. 'Street photography' can be pretty much anything to anybody and covers the broadest range of self imposed criteria and techniques.

But if you are shooting that way, and not getting any signed releases...what use is it anyway? I mean..you can't sell it. Ok, possibly for editorial use, but still....if you're shooting street for $$...you're gonna need to be getting releases too, in which case you will have to interact with the subject(s)....and hence, the no more "sneaky" part of the equation..

I may be wrong, but I don't think you have to have a release when you're photographing someone on a "public" street. There have been photographers that's been sued for selling their street photography that included subjects/people that didn't want to be in the pic, but none of those suits stood up in court because the images were taking on a "public" street.
I believe the reason street photographers (me included) like to be incognito is so they can catch people in their natural habitat being normal; being themselves in the raw. When people see someone with a camera pointing at them, they tend to tense up and act different.

I'm assuming that the court discussed whether there was an expectation of privacy or not in these cases? Do you have case citations so I can read these?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found some.
 
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I got an offer of the 50mm L at 850 euros which today is nearly the same amount in dollars.
The guy selling it sent me a full resolution RAW to show me how excellent a lense it is.

I compared his picture to the one I took with the ole f/1.4 and I did not see one single reason why I should spend my money on the L lense. I could justify (for that money) a 16-35 f/4 mm which is only 150 euros more expensive brand new shipped. Or put the money aside and wait a while and get one of the second generation beautiful zooms.

But hell, no way I am going to pay 850 dollars for a 50mm prime!
( It could also be that I do not understand...it happens)
 
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I don't understand either... But from many discussions on the matter, it isn't about How sharp the lens is, but how the bokeh is rendered. It is supposed to be adequately sharp in the center and the bokeh is magic... Which puts it on par with the 85I, 135I, and the 200I.

I don't see it... But I trust those that argue for it.

& by the way... I'm willing to pay for magic bokehs, but if I have my choice, I'll take the other the lenses over the fifty...


martti said:
I got an offer of the 50mm L at 850 euros which today is nearly the same amount in dollars.
The guy selling it sent me a full resolution RAW to show me how excellent a lense it is.

I compared his picture to the one I took with the ole f/1.4 and I did not see one single reason why I should spend my money on the L lense. I could justify (for that money) a 16-35 f/4 mm which is only 150 euros more expensive brand new shipped. Or put the money aside and wait a while and get one of the second generation beautiful zooms.

But hell, no way I am going to pay 850 dollars for a 50mm prime!
( It could also be that I do not understand...it happens)
 
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I've had two copies of the 50L and the only way to view it is as a specialty lens, just like a T/S or something like that. It takes really unique portraits between f/1.2 and f/2 with much better color and contrast than the 50 f/1.4. If you use it for anything else or above f/2, it's a nice lens, but not as sharp as most of the other options in that range. It's built like a tank and is weather sealed as well.
 
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Mitch.Conner said:
ReggieABrown said:
cayenne said:
privatebydesign said:
Memdroid said:
Street photography is about socializing and absolutely not about taking sneaky pictures. You are no paparazzi. You have to interact with the subjects, joke around, hear their stories, get to know them a little and be a part of it.

No, for you street photography is about socializing, for many others it isn't. For many the thought of interacting with the subject completely destroys any authenticity to their work, and to others being in peoples faces is what the genre is about. 'Street photography' can be pretty much anything to anybody and covers the broadest range of self imposed criteria and techniques.

But if you are shooting that way, and not getting any signed releases...what use is it anyway? I mean..you can't sell it. Ok, possibly for editorial use, but still....if you're shooting street for $$...you're gonna need to be getting releases too, in which case you will have to interact with the subject(s)....and hence, the no more "sneaky" part of the equation..

I may be wrong, but I don't think you have to have a release when you're photographing someone on a "public" street. There have been photographers that's been sued for selling their street photography that included subjects/people that didn't want to be in the pic, but none of those suits stood up in court because the images were taking on a "public" street.
I believe the reason street photographers (me included) like to be incognito is so they can catch people in their natural habitat being normal; being themselves in the raw. When people see someone with a camera pointing at them, they tend to tense up and act different.

I'm assuming that the court discussed whether there was an expectation of privacy or not in these cases? Do you have case citations so I can read these?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found some.

Privacy law is a potentially thorny (and often misunderstood) topic.

The "reasonable expectation of privacy" stuff (which is only one element of what you need to show to establish a breach of privacy) comes up in the UK/Europe (see the Naomi Campbell case, the Max Mosely case, etc, etc), but is relatively new thing (at least in the UK, I'm less sure about Europe). It represents a particular development of the common law about misuse of confidential information (again, at least in the UK) prompted by obligations arising under a European Union treaty on human rights.

In many other places, eg the US (I'm all but certain) and Australia, there is no general law about breach of privacy. You have to find some other basis to try to make a claim. Misuse of confidential information is often the most likely candidate, but there will be little chance of success if the relevant conduct could be seen from a public place or probably even just from a private place. (OK, to be technical: in Australia there are a couple of cases which have found there is a general law about breach of privacy: see Gross v Purvis (in Queensland), Jane Doe v Australian Broadcasting Corporation (in Victoria). However no appellate level court has yet run with it, despite having an opportunity to do so: eg Giller v Procopets (in Victoria). In Procopets, a video was made of people in a bedroom, and that was held to be confidential information. That wasn't just because it occurred in a bedroom though, it was also due to the nature of the conduct and the relationship between the plaintiff and the person who took the video.)

As for the issue of model releases, the law isn't necessarily the same from country to country. In Australia - and as far as I know in the UK, Europe and the US - there is no general requirement for them, regardless of what use you make of the photo. Still, in some situations it may be sensible to get one to avoid potential trouble, eg to avoid a claim for misuse of confidential information or, in the UK/Europe, a claim for breach of privacy.

Another type of claim which can come up, and which a model release might avoid, is a trade practices claim (eg passing off; in Australia, also misleading and deceptive conduct). The issue in these cases is usually whether the way the photo is used (eg in advertising a product) implies the person in the photo endorses the product. If it does, the person in the photo may have a claim (assuming no release was obtained) essentially on the basis their reputation is being misused by giving consumers the impression the person endorses the product or supports the manufacturer or whatever, when that isn't true. Generally speaking, it's more likely to be a problem if the person in the photo is famous, as consumers are more likely to assume that a famous person in a photo has agreed to be in it and agreed to the photo being used in the way it is being used.

That all assumes you were not trespassing when you took the photo. If you were trespassing when you took it, that could well cause you a problem (I'll leave it at that!).
 
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