Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Spec List [CR1]

[x-vision]

28mp

Great, now when it comes out at 24MP, high MP lovers are going to be complaining that it's even lower than what was rumoured.

I'm surprised I can't nail down this information with any sort of certainty yet.

28mp is a very believable spec. Here is why:

The 4K implementation on the 1DXII uses a cropped area of the sensor for 1:1 pixel mapping for 4K frames.
The crop ratio of this area is ~1.3x - or APS-H standard format.

It is (very) reasonable to assume that the 5DIV will have the same 4K implementation as the 1DXII.
With 28mp, the crop area for 4K will have a ~1.5x crop factor - or the same size as the Super35 standard format.

With more than 28mp, the 4K crop area will have to be smaller than Super35 in size - which videographers will frown upon.
And will less than 28mp (say 24mp), the 4K crop area will have a non-standard size between Super35 and APS-H.

My bet is that Canon will be going for a standard 4K (crop) size - and will thus use a 28mp sensor in the 5DIV.

Going forward, the interesting thing is whether the 6DII will use the same sensor as the 5DIV.
To me, it's good common sense to have the same sensor in both the 6DII and 5DIV.
If that's the case, though, Canon would have to get creative in differentiating the two models, as the 6DII will need to be priced at around $2,200 ($2,500 max).

 

[ahsanford]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

 

[jebrady03]

28mp is a very believable spec. Here is why:

The 4K implementation on the 1DXII uses a cropped area of the sensor for 1:1 pixel mapping for 4K frames.
The crop ratio of this area is ~1.3x - or APS-H standard format.

It is (very) reasonable to assume that the 5DIV will have the same 4K implementation as the 1DXII.
With 28mp, the crop area for 4K will have a ~1.5x crop factor - or the same size as the Super35 standard format.

With more than 28mp, the 4K crop area will have to be smaller than Super35 in size - which videographers will frown upon.
And will less than 28mp (say 24mp), the 4K crop area will have a non-standard size between Super35 and APS-H.

My bet is that Canon will be going for a standard 4K (crop) size - and will thus use a 28mp sensor in the 5DIV.

Great points and solid theory! Will be interesting to see what happens!

 

[jebrady03]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

Hey, it's definitely possible. The majority of people who NEED (or have convinced themselves they NEED) 10+ FPS in a FF camera have already purchased or will still purchase a 1DX Mark II. For those whom 7-9 is enough AND haven't already purchased, maybe that's a small enough group that the loss of sale of 1DX Mark II is worth it for the resulting premium in cost for a 9 FPS 5D Mark IV vs a 7 FPS 5D Mark IV.

Maybe.

And actually, I just found out something I didn't know (literally, just now, after typing the word "maybe" above)... I didn't realize the 5D Mark II only shot at 3.9 FPS whereas the 5D Mark III shoots at 6 (slightly over 50% more FPS). So heck, maybe the 5D Mark IV WILL shoot at 9 FPS (50% more than the 5D Mark III). For some reason, I was thinking the 5D Mark II shot at 5 FPS.

So now my shoulders are next to my ears as I shrug "I dunno"...

 

[neuroanatomist]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect that's the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.

I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.

 

[Deleted member 68328]

The specs are fine, but the real question for me is: will there be new sensor and AF tech as rumored in Canon DSLR for a while?

 

[tron]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect that's the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.

I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.

I do hope you are correct fpswise. Although I would rather get a 5DIV at 24Mp to approximate 1DxII quality in high iso. We will see...

 

[ahsanford]

I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect that's the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.

I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.

That's an interesting point on who their target 'upcharge/upgrade' camp might be, Neuro -- a lot of 5D3 users (like myself) are not upgrading this cycle because it will be more of an incremental bump for us. Also, your 7D2 argument is a solid one: my last rig before my 5D3 was T1i, believe it or not.

Also, I echo that the FPS will get a bump -- I've had 8 fps as my guess. After all, it's much easier for Canon to give us +2-3 fps than it is to give us a massive boost in DR. :

- A

 

[gsealy]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect that's the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.

I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.

I agree the market is different. The guys that use the 1Dx's beat the crap out of them, taking perhaps thousands of pictures in a day and maybe in all kinds of weather. The camera has to handle a huge workload. The photographer will get paid when he delivers, so the camera has to deliver for him. I have seen these guys work and talked to them when they had a few moments, which are very few. They are not buying a 5DIV. Conversely, why spend an extra $2500 or so when the high workload is not there? Or when a super high frame rate is not needed? Or when weather is not big factor?

 

[ahsanford]

I agree the market is different. The guys that use the 1Dx's beat the crap out of them, taking perhaps thousands of pictures in a day and maybe in all kinds of weather. The camera has to handle a huge workload. The photographer will get paid when he delivers, so the camera has to deliver for him. I have seen these guys work and talked to them when they had a few moments, which are very few. They are not buying a 5DIV. Conversely, why spend an extra $2500 or so when the high workload is not there? Or when a super high frame rate is not needed? Or when weather is not big factor?

...because the 1D line has a boatload of exclusive features that have nothing to do with FPS, build quality or sealing.

I hear your point and 100% agree that the two camps have different needs and (correspondingly) different Canon options to select for those needs.

I'm just saying that the price differential between the 5D line and the 1D line is far more nuanced that folks might believe based on top-line spec sheet metrics like MP, FPS, AF system, etc. This is why a lot of old 1Ds shooters are butt-hurt that Canon doesn't give them a high MP sensor option in a 1D feature-set body.

- A

 

[gunship01]

28 MP and 9 FPS? If true, I'm in!

 

[GMCPhotographics]

28mp
DIGIC 7
9fps

28MP * 9fps = 252MP/s, which is significantly higher than the ~171MP/s extrapolated from the 1DX:5D3 ratio. Sounds unlikely to me, although it could explain the switch to a newer DIGIC.

...which is efffectively the same as the 50 MP x 5 fps of the 5DS rigs. Two chips = 100% possible to move that kind of data.

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

- A

I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same.
I think the real reason the 5D4 is rumoured to have 9fps is because the processor can handle the data throughput...and Canon doesn't want it to rob sales of the 5D3S/R. So 28mp is a lot less than the 50+ of the 5D3S/R and there's easy to see distinction between the two cameras. I don't think the 1Dx competes with the 5D3/4 at all...although due to the versatility of both cameras, there's a lot of over lap with their capabilities.

I've shot Irish sea birds for many years with a 5DIII, while many of my colleagues used 1DX units...sure they took a lot more photos. But I had as many if not more keepers and had less to choose from.

 

[vlad]

Does it have interchangeable screens?

I hope so too. The Mark3 and DS use non-interchangeable screens that are as soft as butter. It's impossible to judge critical focus.

I know about live view, but then why use a DSLR at all? Canon can do a lot better, the question is: will they spend the money it takes to give this camera the best FF DSLR finder on the market, or will they go cheap and hope it doesn't hurt them too bad in the long term?

I've had a 3rd party focusing screen (fucusingscreen.com) on my 5D3 since it first came out. Works great, no AF or metering issues.

 

[ahsanford]

I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same.

Good points.

The 1DX2 has silent shutter, anti-flicker, faster flash sync and spot metering at any AF point... any chance we'll start seeing 1DX2 break up the dominance of the 5D3 at weddings?

- A

 

[kaihp]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit.

Are you sure of that? - I've seen companies being so focused on hitting certain COGS and margin numbers that they created negative incentives for sales of certain products, because the COGS was "too high" and it would erode the margins overall margins.

In short, they left revenue and profit on the table, because a 36% profit margin on $100 looked better than 34% of $110.

Back on-topic: If the 5D4 continues the 'trend' of having a single DIGIC processor, I would be very surprised if it will do in excess of 250MP/s; if the 5D4 gets two DIGIC's, there's no reason it can't do 9fps.
FWIW, the DIGIC7 of the G7 X Mk II does up to 8fps @ 20.1MP, but I'm doubtful whether it's the same DIGIC as we'll see in a 5D4.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.

Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature.

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A

Just tossing this out there, but, doesn't buffer size play a huge roll in this? If the buffer on the 5d4 is weaker then yes you get that high frame rate but it won't be as usable because your spending tons of time waiting on the buffer to clear.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I have always pre-ordered new 5D models, but I may sit this one out. The camera is pretty much what I expected, but the new features do not justify upgrading. New CFast cards, Card Readers, etc.

The one feature that might change my mind is if wi-fi is 802.11AC with gigabit capability. Then a card reader will not be needed.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same.

Good points.

The 1DX2 has silent shutter, anti-flicker, faster flash sync and spot metering at any AF point... any chance we'll start seeing 1DX2 break up the dominance of the 5D3 at weddings?

- A

Not at the 1D series price point. Unless your in the luxury category and needling 6k+ at minimum per wedding. I only know one wedding shooter in my area that uses a 1dx, and he has it probably more because he shoots his sons hockey games rather than business needs.

There really isn't much at a wedding that requires more than 5fps. I personally keep my 5d3 on silent mode, and normal burst, sometimes even single shot mode. I also use lots of off camera light, and there 9s no flash system that can keep up with 14 fps. So, unless you're bride is an Olympic sprinter, and plans to race down the Isle while leaping hurdles and polite vaulting, 14 fps is totally 100% unneeded. 10 fps is unneeded...

 

[ahsanford]

Just tossing this out there, but, doesn't buffer size play a huge roll in this? If the buffer on the 5d4 is weaker then yes you get that high frame rate but it won't be as usable because your spending tons of time waiting on the buffer to clear.

Mo throughput, mo problems. ;D

What you say is correct, but Nikon's latest D5/D500 rigs -- love them or not -- effectively ended the buffer size debate. Canon could do the same and put colossal buffers on their cameras if they were so inclined.

The question is this: is high framerate and a large buffer a major matter for the 5D brand, or is it just the cherry on top that helps justify (say) a $3499 asking price for an otherwise incrementally improved offering?

For 5D3 people, it's a nice to have but not a must -- after all, we've gotten by with 6 fps and a relative modest buffer for some time now. So offering a 9 FPS rig helps bolster price to those skeptical about how little the rig may have improved elsewhere.

But to Neuro's point, if Canon was trying to sell more superwhites or FF bodies by pulling in current crop users, they might spike the FPS/buffer to pull 7D2 users over the cliff into the FF world. Those folks needs FPS as a high priority.

- A

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I personally would be pretty delighted by those specs. 28MP is plenty. I'd also be happy even if the FPS comes in at 8FPS. So long as the camera produces as clean or cleaner files as the 6D and perhaps with a touch more dynamic range it sounds like the camera I want.