Canon EOS 5Ds and EOS 5Ds R Preview
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I was waiting for the complementary camera to my 1DX, which currently is the 5DIII. If the 5Ds had provided a couple of stops in DR improvement and a fair improvement in low ISO noise, it would have been perfect.unfocused said:
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Marsu42 said:
There have been plenty of times when that much additional range would have helped me, but generally it was because I screwed up, not because the scene happened to exceed my body's capability by no more than that additional amount.
Even when I bring my A7R on landscape shoots, I plan and equip as I do shooting Canon: timing, timing, timing, and filters.
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3kramd5 said:
Personally, I think that having more safety space is a perfectly valid reason to wish for more dynamic range (though of course superheroes always expose properly). I often enable Magic Lantern's dual_iso to gain an additional 2ev (on 100/400 setting) just to be on the safe side when I cannot repeat the scene.
quod said:
Canon didn't conjure the 5ds sensor out of thin air, it's an upscaled 7d2 crop design - so the performance (or lack of, whatever your standard is) shouldn't be a surprise to anyone?
Eldar said:
I sympathize with your feelings on dynamic range - but "low iso noise"... what low iso noise? The 7d2 seems to be just fine in this regard, imho the only potential problems are less postprocessing elasticity or color fidelity vs. "big pixels".
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Eldar said:BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.
Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!
I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!
You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
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RLPhoto
Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
I smell Troll and it smells like a rancid canon fanboy.Mogwai2 said:Karlpedal said:Mogwai2 said:Viggo said:Eldar said:BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.
Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!
I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!
You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
Sorry to say that, but the whole talk you just gave is nothing but nonsense.
Nobody who makes great outstanding images.. nobody.. cares for 1 cent about 1 stop of DR difference.
Only amateurs on internet forums are obsessed with tech talk. THAT is dissapointing for the whole Photography scene....
and why then are we looking after better lenses, higher resolution??
only a fool can come up with a answer like yours
The only FOOL here is you and people who think better gear or 2 stops more DR will make them better Photographer. You just kidding yourself. But my breath is wasted on people like you....
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Viggo said:Eldar said:BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.
Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!
I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!
You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
Buy a Sony a7R and an a7S with a Metabones adapter and you get the bigger sensor, higher DR and high ISO capabilities. Plus you get to use your existing glass.
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Karlpedal said:Mogwai2 said:Viggo said:Eldar said:BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.
Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!
I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!
You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
Sorry to say that, but the whole talk you just gave is nothing but nonsense.
Nobody who makes great outstanding images.. nobody.. cares for 1 cent about 1 stop of DR difference.
Only amateurs on internet forums are obsessed with tech talk. THAT is dissapointing for the whole Photography scene....
and why are we looking after better lenses, higher resolution??
Because people tend to think that can fix their own artistic or technical shortcomings....
That´s actually a quote from a famous Photographer.
Someone who doesn´t care about DR.
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Mogwai2 said:Karlpedal said:Mogwai2 said:Viggo said:Eldar said:BIG DISSAPOINTMENT!
I really believed this would be a game changer. Instead it seems we are getting a 50MP FF 7DII.
I had, for all practical purposes, three major items on my motivation list, in order of priority: DR, Low ISO noise and resolution. I get resolution. I still don't know what to expect from noise, but it seems I can conclude that DR still lags at least 3 stops behind Sony/Nikon. BIG dissapointment.
Bryan is happy to use HDR/bracketing to solve this issue. Animals don't sit still! Insects don't sit still, wind moves trees, leaves, grass, hair etc. etc. The only way to get all information out of a high contrast image is to have sufficient DR. BIG dissapointment!
I was ready to push the preorder button as soon as it turned green. Now I'll spend the weekend going through my gear and figure out what I'll keep and what I'll sell. Unless I get magnificent noise performance, I think I'm done!
You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
Sorry to say that, but the whole talk you just gave is nothing but nonsense.
Nobody who makes great outstanding images.. nobody.. cares for 1 cent about 1 stop of DR difference.
Only amateurs on internet forums are obsessed with tech talk. THAT is dissapointing for the whole Photography scene....
and why are we looking after better lenses, higher resolution??
Because people tend to think that can fix their own artistic or technical shortcomings....
That´s actually a quote from a famous Photographer.
Someone who doesn´t care about DR.
After seeing my friend who is superb at landscape shots show me the difference, when doing that stuff, between a Sony A7 (of some sort) and the 5d3 I really got what it means. And if you read my comment I said that I'm not in the market for this at all, the 1dx is perfect as far as far as I concern. But as a gear head, seeing hardly any sensor improvement over the 5d2 is very disappointing.
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Viggo said:You know what? I agree 100%... I have been very happy, and I still am, with the 1dX, but a 50mp 7d in the new big splash 5d announcement is just really very very lousy.... That means THIS is the landscape camera they made an effort with, and the 1dx2 and 5d4 will not be better in terms of sensor tech, dr, low iso noise and so on. So the next chance for Canon to catch up is 4-5 years down the line... It's just too much stupid. I'm not in the DR-crowd, but to see the same sensor tech as 2007 is just not good for Canon. And all the people that still didn't leave Canon when the 5d3 came out, I think a lot of them will now. The 11-24 can always be adapted to Nikon :
Hopefully we can dodge all the personal stuff here but I have to say your thinking here seems considerably off target. A "50mp 7d", that's a long, long way from accuracy. And while you might be right about the 5dIV consider this. Canon has said they will release a "high megapixel" camera, they've done it, and some. For those requiring such a beast it's like as not going to be awesome. Just as people reacted similarly to the 7dII based on specs, only to realise that it was a hell of a camera the same will happen here I suspect. For the people it suits this will rock!
Maybe I missed it, I'm not an avid follower of the rumours but given that this is another reasonably targeted camera from Canon what is there to say that the 5DIV or next 1DX will have the same sensor? That's feels like a huge leap too. This isn't THE big splash 5d announcement, it's one of the big splash 5d announcements. I think we'll truly know how important Canon views DR with the next in line. And who knows maybe they'll agree with the set of people that rate DR as so important. It probably is their turn but Canon has just concentrated on other things and produced some great new products / features the others don't have.
And as I've said before, Canon is producing some amazing new lenses, really excellent new additions across the range. There is only so much investment they can stand in any given period. It seems to me they are playing the long game and looking to provide the whole package in terms of their range. Let's see what comes next!
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C'mon, can we please stop the attacks against those who would like to see more DR?
And please do not kid yourselves, there are thousands upon thousands of full-time pros and extremely talented amateurs, who consider DR when buying cameras, or get annoyed working around it when they don't have enough. It is definitely not an issue for everyone, but to suggest it should not be an issue for anyone is just the vocalisation of staggering ignorance. And yes, pros do care about a stop of dynamic range and banding when it stops them from putting an image on the wall for an exhibition, or selling it to client. And yes, this does happen enough to be a real nuisance.
If Canon was now producing bodies with 14+ stops of DR there would be very few discussions on this topic, because the issue would be dealt with. Do you hear Sony and Nikon users arguing about DR, complaining that they don't have enough? No, but do you know why? It is because 14+ stops can make a very significant difference over 11.7, but beyond 14 gains become fairly irrelevant. In short, they have what they want and those who did not want it are no worse off. Pretty well very other manufacturer now offers bodies with north of 14 stops, so all the advocates of more DR are asking is to be provided with a FF Canon with the sort of DR we are now accustomed to from APS-C and some M43 cameras. That's not too outrageous, is it?
If you don't need the DR you will never use it, but you won't lose out either, so nobody stands to suffer or have their candy taken away, do they? So why is there a need to attack people who would like to see more DR? Are we allowed to feel disappointed, or do you find this unacceptable because it makes you feel less good about being a Canon owner? I own lots of Canon gear, but I am also disappointed in the lack of improvements in DR. I feel no conflict. My left arm is not thumping my right... and that's because I am a grown up.
None of this takes anything away from the great features the 5Ds has brought to the show. We can like them and not like the DR shortfall. Why does everything have to be polarised?
And please do not kid yourselves, there are thousands upon thousands of full-time pros and extremely talented amateurs, who consider DR when buying cameras, or get annoyed working around it when they don't have enough. It is definitely not an issue for everyone, but to suggest it should not be an issue for anyone is just the vocalisation of staggering ignorance. And yes, pros do care about a stop of dynamic range and banding when it stops them from putting an image on the wall for an exhibition, or selling it to client. And yes, this does happen enough to be a real nuisance.
If Canon was now producing bodies with 14+ stops of DR there would be very few discussions on this topic, because the issue would be dealt with. Do you hear Sony and Nikon users arguing about DR, complaining that they don't have enough? No, but do you know why? It is because 14+ stops can make a very significant difference over 11.7, but beyond 14 gains become fairly irrelevant. In short, they have what they want and those who did not want it are no worse off. Pretty well very other manufacturer now offers bodies with north of 14 stops, so all the advocates of more DR are asking is to be provided with a FF Canon with the sort of DR we are now accustomed to from APS-C and some M43 cameras. That's not too outrageous, is it?
If you don't need the DR you will never use it, but you won't lose out either, so nobody stands to suffer or have their candy taken away, do they? So why is there a need to attack people who would like to see more DR? Are we allowed to feel disappointed, or do you find this unacceptable because it makes you feel less good about being a Canon owner? I own lots of Canon gear, but I am also disappointed in the lack of improvements in DR. I feel no conflict. My left arm is not thumping my right... and that's because I am a grown up.
None of this takes anything away from the great features the 5Ds has brought to the show. We can like them and not like the DR shortfall. Why does everything have to be polarised?
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A very good thread on Dual ISO:K-amps said:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1333150&page=1
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dont know where to ask this..
but has the 5Ds / 5Ds R solved the un-lighted(red) selected autofocus point issue...
...servo mode? from my 5D III
this is the only annoying design flaw (IMO) that would stop me ...
....if un-resolved, ...I may as well move on from this 5Dxx idea when a more suitable camera comes along... that lets me see the selected focuspoint...
I believe the 1Dx does not have this issue...
so ...did anyone see that issues addressed anywhere
thanks so much
but has the 5Ds / 5Ds R solved the un-lighted(red) selected autofocus point issue...
...servo mode? from my 5D III
this is the only annoying design flaw (IMO) that would stop me ...
....if un-resolved, ...I may as well move on from this 5Dxx idea when a more suitable camera comes along... that lets me see the selected focuspoint...
I believe the 1Dx does not have this issue...
so ...did anyone see that issues addressed anywhere
thanks so much
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